Do you think Nick Bonino is a 2nd line Center?

[DeNiro]

Ban Tsn, I'm going to start reporting you. Your trolling is getting pretty ridiculous

It's sad how long he's gone on trying to prove that Bonino sucks, despite clearly watching very little of him.

Somehow he was good enough to center the second line on the best team in the West last season, but he is the worst second line center in the league according to BanTSN.

Third on the team in points and third in ice time among forwards, second on the team in blocked shots among forwards and second in takeaways on the team, yet he clearly contributed nothing to that team...

[BanTSN]

It's sad how long he's gone on trying to prove that Bonino sucks, despite clearly watching very little of him.

Somehow he was good enough to center the second line on the best team in the West last season, but he is the worst second line center in the league according to BanTSN.

Third on the team in points and third in ice time among forwards, second on the team in blocked shots among forwards and second in takeaways on the team, yet he clearly contributed nothing to that team...

Lol. Yes I clearly watched very little of him. I guess you missed my epic post which describes every single point he scored last season? Or when it was stated over and over again that he played the least es time per game among their centers? We could move on in this thread and figure out which of those 2nd line centers Bonino is actually better than, but no, let's just call a balanced view trolling instead.

You could make a case for Bonino being better than a few guys on that list I suppose, but it would be a stretch to go further than that. A simple analysis said by more than just me of course is that we are in a #1, 3a, 3b, 3c scenario.

[DeNiro]

Lol. Yes I clearly watched very little of him. I guess you missed my epic post which describes every single point he scored last season? Or when it was stated over and over again that he played the least es time per game among their centers? We could move on in this thread and figure out which of those 2nd line centers Bonino is actually better than, but no, let's just call a balanced view trolling instead. .

All of which you could have easily watched in youtube clips. Doesn't mean you've watched him play.

Not to mention watching 5 minutes out of the 1200+ minutes he played last season does very little to paint a picture of what kind of player he is.

Who cares if he played less ES time? They deployed a system where they used different centers in different situations. Winnik and Perrault took the tough defensive minutes, and Getzlaf, Koivu, and Bonino shared the offensive minutes. Doesn't mean he is a poor even strength player.

He had more even strength points than Koivu and Winnik, and almost as many as Perrault. Fourth on the team in even strength goals behind Getzlaf and Perry.

You're trying too hard to bend the numbers to fit your poor perception of him.

[DeNiro]

For comparison, Bonino's 15 even strength goals alone would have put him 4th on our team in scoring, only 1 behind Daniel's total goals.

[BanTSN]

All of which you could have easily watched in youtube clips. Doesn't mean you've watched him play.

Not to mention watching 5 minutes out of the 1200+ minutes he played last season does very little to paint a picture of what kind of player he is.

Who cares if he played less ES time? They deployed a system where they used different centers in different situations. Winnik and Perrault took the tough defensive minutes, and Getzlaf, Koivu, and Bonino shared the offensive minutes. Doesn't mean he is a poor even strength player.

He had more even strength points than Koivu and Winnik, and almost as many as Perrault. Third on the team in even strength goals behind Getzlaf and Perry.

You're trying too hard to bend the numbers to fit your poor perception of him.

I don't think you can speak for how much I've actually watched him play. But trust me, my eyeball tests for players i'm interested in are rather extensive. In this case I did it because i had made some assumptions based on regular and advanced stats on the player and I wanted to confirm them. I think i've accomplished that with my extensive viewings, but if people want to disagree, that's totally fine.

ES time is fairly important as it indicates what we can expect from him in an expanded role here. As a lot of players were stretched last season, you could see the results as the season wore on. We can of course spread around the time, but ultimately there's going to be some big asks for some of our players if we want to succeed this season. If we want to start micromanaging Sedin zone starts and qualcomp again, then somebody's going to have to step up. There will be some issues with that imho, starting with the sustainable workload expectations of our other centers. On that end, Bonino is a good center. He can make some great passing plays to springing wingers and has a good shot from the upper-left circle. But if we start stretching his workload, then expectations for offensive output and overall play will simply diminish. Hey, unless he improves on his own accord. However, he's 26, so he's pretty much physically matured.

Cogliano was 3rd in Anaheim's es goals last season, but Bonino with 15 wasn't bad at all, even with the context i've described at length before. Will he score that many in an expanded role, but higher qualcomp here? It's tough to tell. 15 goals would have tied for our team lead last season, but Anaheim finished well above us in the standings. So I think the real question is if our checking centers can enable us to re-shelter the Sedins so they can score more es goals and regain elite 1st liner status. For us to succeed, this will have to happen. It's far more important than what Bonino does, imho.

[nuck luck]

My honest, non-rose-coloured assessment based on what I've seen from all these players:

Anaheim: Ryan Kesler > Bonino. Way better.

Arizona: Sam Gagner > Bonino. Faster, more skilled. I think he surprises this year. If not still better.

Boston: David Krejci > Bonino. Way better.

Buffalo: Cody Hodgson > Bonino. Yup. Sorry.

Calgary: Mikael Backlund/Sean Monahan > Bonino. Monahan is already better offensively. Backlund is due to do something. Faster and better defensively.

Carolina: Jordan Staal > Bonino. Way better.

Chicago: Brad Richards > Bonino. Even a declining version is better.

Colorado: Ryan Oreilly? (Maybe Nathan Mackinnon) > Bonino. Both easily better.

Columbus: Brandon Dubinsky > Bonino. Faster, tougher, more skilled.

Dallas: Jason Spezza > Bonino. Easily.

Detroit: Stephen Wiess/Darren Helm /= Bonino Zetterberg > Bonino. Zetterberg will likely center often, and he's in another league than Bonino.

Edmonton: Leon Draisatl /= Bonino Long-term > Bonino. Draisaitl may perform right away, might not. So this is a question. Purcell may be converted if not? Not sure.

Florida: Nick Bjugstad/Dave Bolland > Bonino. More skilled, faster.

LA: Jeff Carter > Bonino. Way, way better.

Minnesota: Mikael Granlund > Bonino. Due to break out. Way more skilled.

Montreal: Alex Galchenyuk > Bonino. Due to break out. Way more skilled.

Nashville: Olli Jokinen /= Bonino Wilson, Fisher, Ribeiro > Bonino. Jokinen will be further down the depth chart than those other, better guys.

New Jersey: Adam Henrique > Bonino. Way better.

NY Islanders: Mikhail Grabovski > Bonino. Faster, better, more skilled.

NY Rangers: Derrick Brassard > Bonino. Faster, more skilled and consistently proven.

Ottawa: Mika Zibanejad > Bonino. Due to break out. Faster, more skilled.

Philadelphia: Sean Cuturier/Brayden Schenn > Bonino. Both far better.

Pittsburgh: Evgeni Malkin > Bonino. Good God.

San Jose: Logan Couture > Bonino. Way, way better.

St Louis: Paul Stastny > Bonino. Way better.

Tampa: Valterri Flipulla > Bonino. More proven, definitely.

Toronto: Nazem Kadri > Bonino. Easily better.

Washington: Marcus Johansson > Bonino. Underrated offensive force. Faster, more skilled.

Winnipeg: Mark Scheiffle > Bonino. Will probably break out this season and is playing with Kane.

This kinda puts it into perspective, so thanks.

There's only one team, Edmonton, that might have a problem matching up against Bonino, but that isn't 100% due to us not knowing how good Draisaitl will be in his first season. (MacT thinks he's going to be Kopitar, however. lol)

It must be understood that we were forced into the Kesler trade. We should not expect instant gratification on the return if that's the case. I wish Bonino luck in his new role as 2nd line center here, but realistically, odds are he's in over his head. Just based on es icetime requirements of that role alone, but more because of his lack of NHL-quality speed, tenacity and two-way ability beyond picking off some neutral zone outlets.

On the bright side, there will be room for Horvat, Gaunce, McCann and Cassels to thrive here, in the long run. Fox and Virtanen can also play center. I think they all have some real potential. So after the rebuilding phase is completed, hopefully we'll be stacked up the middle. (Thinking prime NJ Devils-like center depth. They drafted and developed most of those guys.)

Leon Draisatl = Bonino...everyone else is >

Simplified version...save yourself the time.

However, I disagree that this is your "non-rose-colored assessment".... I think it is highly tinted, heavily tainted and completely biased.

There is a lot of players that are better....or, more proven than Bonino at this point. But, the rest of the players you seem to give the benefit of the doubt, give them excuses or suggest that their speed makes it decisive.....at the same time, you provide absolutely no confidence in Bonino's potential.

You mentioned numerous other players that are "Due to break out"....I would argue that Bonino is "Due to break out" as well. Multiple other players are arguably worse or more of a liability on the ice....which would make them worse than Bonino ( Coho, Monahan, etc.. )

I would agree that this is your honest assessment, but it's not a fair assessment by any means.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

My honest, non-rose-coloured assessment based on what I've seen from all these players:

Is this the same non-rose-coloured assessment that made you claim Colorado didn't lose anything significant over the off-season? They lost arguably their best forward. Hell, you claimed every team in the West got better over the off season, except the Canucks.

In what way is Adam Henrique way better than Nick Bonino. His best season was his rookie season three years ago. Bonino's best season was last season.

"Due to break out." ... Really? That's your argument?

[cbdoubleu]

Nick Bonino isn't going to make anyone forget who Ryan Kesler is. If Nick Bonino was a better all-round 2nd line centre than Ryan Kesler, the Ducks don't give up Bonino and a 1st rounder to get Kesler.

The best part of having Nick Bonino as your second line centre is that every centre prospect in your organization feels like they can take that spot from him.

Comparing him to the 2C spot in LA, San Jose, or Anaheim reveals how weak we are with Bonino. He's good enough to fill the void for a season or two, but I don't expect a lot of Bonino jerseys to be sold.

[Dogbyte]

Easily belongs in that list.

I'd say there's about 10 or so who are in an 'elite' class - Krejci, O'Reilly, Carter, Malkin, Stastny, Filpulla, Kesler, Couture, Spezza (although so over-rated)....I'd probably add Dubinsky, perhaps Henrique, but that's where it starts to close in.

He's certainly is in a class with the rest of them (2/3) imo, and better than a number of them. There may be a few younger guys that are expected/projected to have higher 'ceilings' but that's beside the point (and a number of them will not pan out as expected) - at this point of his and their careers, he's certainly not outclassed by the majority of those players as far as I'm concerned.

Damn, I didn't know it was you. I really try to not to give you too many plusses. There you go making another good comment you dummy!

My honest, non-rose-coloured assessment based on what I've seen from all these players:

Anaheim: Ryan Kesler > Bonino. Way better.

Arizona: Sam Gagner > Bonino. Faster, more skilled. I think he surprises this year. If not still better.

Boston: David Krejci > Bonino. Way better.

Buffalo: Cody Hodgson > Bonino. Yup. Sorry.

Calgary: Mikael Backlund/Sean Monahan > Bonino. Monahan is already better offensively. Backlund is due to do something. Faster and better defensively.

Carolina: Jordan Staal > Bonino. Way better.

Chicago: Brad Richards > Bonino. Even a declining version is better.

Colorado: Ryan Oreilly? (Maybe Nathan Mackinnon) > Bonino. Both easily better.

Columbus: Brandon Dubinsky > Bonino. Faster, tougher, more skilled.

Dallas: Jason Spezza > Bonino. Easily.

Detroit: Stephen Wiess/Darren Helm /= Bonino Zetterberg > Bonino. Zetterberg will likely center often, and he's in another league than Bonino.

Edmonton: Leon Draisatl /= Bonino Long-term > Bonino. Draisaitl may perform right away, might not. So this is a question. Purcell may be converted if not? Not sure.

Florida: Nick Bjugstad/Dave Bolland > Bonino. More skilled, faster.

LA: Jeff Carter > Bonino. Way, way better.

Minnesota: Mikael Granlund > Bonino. Due to break out. Way more skilled.

Montreal: Alex Galchenyuk > Bonino. Due to break out. Way more skilled.

Nashville: Olli Jokinen /= Bonino Wilson, Fisher, Ribeiro > Bonino. Jokinen will be further down the depth chart than those other, better guys.

New Jersey: Adam Henrique > Bonino. Way better.

NY Islanders: Mikhail Grabovski > Bonino. Faster, better, more skilled.

NY Rangers: Derrick Brassard > Bonino. Faster, more skilled and consistently proven.

Ottawa: Mika Zibanejad > Bonino. Due to break out. Faster, more skilled.

Philadelphia: Sean Cuturier/Brayden Schenn > Bonino. Both far better.

Pittsburgh: Evgeni Malkin > Bonino. Good God.

San Jose: Logan Couture > Bonino. Way, way better.

St Louis: Paul Stastny > Bonino. Way better.

Tampa: Valterri Flipulla > Bonino. More proven, definitely.

Toronto: Nazem Kadri > Bonino. Easily better.

Washington: Marcus Johansson > Bonino. Underrated offensive force. Faster, more skilled.

Winnipeg: Mark Scheiffle > Bonino. Will probably break out this season and is playing with Kane.

This kinda puts it into perspective, so thanks.

There's only one team, Edmonton, that might have a problem matching up against Bonino, but that isn't 100% due to us not knowing how good Draisaitl will be in his first season. (MacT thinks he's going to be Kopitar, however. lol)

It must be understood that we were forced into the Kesler trade. We should not expect instant gratification on the return if that's the case. I wish Bonino luck in his new role as 2nd line center here, but realistically, odds are he's in over his head. Just based on es icetime requirements of that role alone, but more because of his lack of NHL-quality speed, tenacity and two-way ability beyond picking off some neutral zone outlets.

On the bright side, there will be room for Horvat, Gaunce, McCann and Cassels to thrive here, in the long run. Fox and Virtanen can also play center. I think they all have some real potential. So after the rebuilding phase is completed, hopefully we'll be stacked up the middle. (Thinking prime NJ Devils-like center depth. They drafted and developed most of those guys.)

Sometimes you have some insightful comments but this just sucks balls. Trying way to hard to denigrate a player playing in a strong system who has been trending upwards for 5 or 6 years now getting better every year since his first year of University. But go ahead knock him down. I for one will be there to laugh at you, your advanced stats, and your eyeballs.

It's sad how long he's gone on trying to prove that Bonino sucks, despite clearly watching very little of him.

Somehow he was good enough to center the second line on the best team in the West last season, but he is the worst second line center in the league according to BanTSN.

Third on the team in points and third in ice time among forwards, second on the team in blocked shots among forwards and second in takeaways on the team, yet he clearly contributed nothing to that team...

You can make stuff like this up easily, like for instance Kadri is easily better, as is half the list he names that are breaking out this year.

Facts are he's ready to compete for a spot at second line center and there is no way he can't match what a lot of those players do.

Wow, talk about man love. Kesler is not the player anymore that this guy thinks he is.

He states that you should have argued which players were better yet his unbiased list just happens to have every other comparable beating him. Okay then ... totally unbiased and worth the discussion. Yeah right.

[cbdoubleu]

Somehow he was good enough to center the second line on the best team in the West last season, but he is the worst second line center in the league according to BanTSN.

If he was good enough, why did the Ducks go out looking for an upgrade to compete? Was Bonino good enough in the LA series?

[TOMapleLaughs]

Not on a cup contending team he isn't.

This was the first answer of the thread.

Fairly accurate statement. Could've saved ourselves a lot of grief just going with it.

[alfstonker]

I trust Benning's judgement and because of that I'm sure he will be a great addition to our 2nd line. Frankly I myself have not seen enough of him to make my own judgement.

[Papayas]

If he was good enough, why did the Ducks go out looking for an upgrade to compete? Was Bonino good enough in the LA series?

because Kesler is the better player?

It does NOT mean Bonino is a bad player or isn't good enough for the ducks.

You got a brain, use it.

[Zedlee]

Kind of pointless to be so adamant about how Bonino will or will not do. No one "knows" for sure....let's just wait and see...we'll have our answer soon enough.

[Angry Goose]

Kind of pointless to be so adamant about how Bonino will or will not do. No one "knows" for sure....let's just wait and see...we'll have our answer soon enough.

took the words right out of my mouth!

[nuck luck]

If he was good enough, why did the Ducks go out looking for an upgrade to compete? Was Bonino good enough in the LA series?

Kinda of an unfair question...

All players...well, a vast majority of players playing in the NHL are good enough to play in the league. However, the goal of every team in the league is to upgrade their players when there is an option available. Every team has different needs...some care for a more defensive option while others look for offense, some want more size while others look for skill, some teams look for draft picks and other teams look for veteran leadership, etc.

If any team sticks with the status quo while other teams are upgrading....the advantages will heavily favor the latter.

To answer the last part of your statement....was Kesler good enough in the Final series vs Boston?

[nuck luck]

Nick Bonino isn't going to make anyone forget who Ryan Kesler is. If Nick Bonino was a better all-round 2nd line centre than Ryan Kesler, the Ducks don't give up Bonino and a 1st rounder to get Kesler.

The best part of having Nick Bonino as your second line centre is that every centre prospect in your organization feels like they can take that spot from him.

Comparing him to the 2C spot in LA, San Jose, or Anaheim reveals how weak we are with Bonino. He's good enough to fill the void for a season or two, but I don't expect a lot of Bonino jerseys to be sold.

As BanTSN failed to mention...Bonino is due for a breakout year. At this point in time, Kesler is the better player, but you don't know how the players will equate after this season or the next. I don't think anyone thinks that Bonino is a better all-around player than Kesler right now...

The best part of having Bonino as our 2nd line Center is that he makes us contenders still and there's a possibility that he may prove himself to be an elite 2nd line center...not to mention that we don't have to overpay for another 2nd line center or trade for one to replace Kes.

If Bonino proves himself and is considered elite...we could keep him or we could trade him for other assets later, where's the issue?

Were in a transitional stage right now, I highly doubt that we would win the majority of player vs player comparable with the teams you mentioned as they're at the top of our Division. Jersey sales....does this matter? How does selling jerseys support your argument?

[Brad Marchand]

because Kesler is the better player?

It does NOT mean Bonino is a bad player or isn't good enough for the ducks.

You got a brain, use it.

Don't give him that much credit.

[DeNiro]

If he was good enough, why did the Ducks go out looking for an upgrade to compete? Was Bonino good enough in the LA series?

No team was better than La last season, so there's no shame in falling to them.

That being said, any time a team doesn't get it done, changes need to be made. And Kesler is an upgrade over Bonino, I don't think anyone's arguing against that. Bonino is a good enough second line center on a well balanced team though; as the Ducks proved last season.

He's certainly not the reason they fell short.

[Diakonos]

Here. I've added another lens to your non-rose-coloured assessment. All these guys are better than Bonino, so clearly it doesn't matter that he scored more or at a better pace than most of them while playing less time. Obviously points aren't everything, but the fact that he outscored more than half of the guys you've listed should make you think twice whether they're all clearly better than him. I couldn't help but comment on some of the more stupid comparisons, especially the plugs or 1Cs included here.

My honest, non-rose-coloured assessment based on what I've seen from all these players:

Anaheim: Ryan Kesler > Bonino. Way better. Bonino: 49 points > Kesler 43p

Arizona: Sam Gagner > Bonino. Faster, more skilled. I think he surprises this year. If not still better. B> Gagner 37. 0.64ppg vs 0.552ppg

Boston: David Krejci > Bonino. Way better. Krejci played first line minutes; was a 1a or 1b centre, not 2C. K is better player.

Buffalo: Cody Hodgson > Bonino. Yup. Sorry. > Hodgson 44, who basically played first line minutes

Calgary: Mikael Backlund/Sean Monahan > Bonino. Monahan is already better offensively. Backlund is due to do something. Faster and better defensively. > Monahan 34p

Carolina: Jordan Staal > Bonino. Way better. > Staal 40p

Chicago: Brad Richards > Bonino. Even a declining version is better. 49 < 51p Brad Richards

Colorado: Ryan Oreilly? (Maybe Nathan Mackinnon) > Bonino. Both easily better. < 64p O'Reilly < 63p Mackinnon. Agreed.

Columbus: Brandon Dubinsky > Bonino. Faster, tougher, more skilled. 49 < 50p, but Dubinsky played 1st line minutes, not 2C.

Dallas: Jason Spezza > Bonino. Easily. 49 < 66p, but Spezza played 1st line minutes.

Detroit: Stephen Wiess/Darren Helm /= Bonino Zetterberg > Bonino. Zetterberg will likely center often, and he's in another league than Bonino. Weiss = 4 points, 0.15ppg with same ATOI as B's 0.64ppg. Helm = 0.48ppg < 0.64 B with less TOI. Zetterberg obviously a 1C. Wtf are you thinking?

Edmonton: Leon Draisatl /= Bonino Long-term > Bonino. Draisaitl may perform right away, might not. So this is a question. Purcell may be converted if not? Not sure. Can't compare yet.

Florida: Nick Bjugstad/Dave Bolland > Bonino. More skilled, faster. B > Bjugstad 38p; Bolland injured early but 0.52ppg < 0.63ppg.

LA: Jeff Carter > Bonino. Way, way better. 49 < Carter 50p, and Carter played 1st line minutes (18:57).

Minnesota: Mikael Granlund > Bonino. Due to break out. Way more skilled. > Granlund 41p. ppg is very close, but G had more ATOI. Good comparable.

Montreal: Alex Galchenyuk > Bonino. Due to break out. Way more skilled. Galchenyuk more upside, but B 49 > Galch 31p, 0.47ppg.

Nashville: Olli Jokinen /= Bonino Wilson, Fisher, Ribeiro > Bonino. Jokinen will be further down the depth chart than those other, better guys. > Wilson 33p; = Fisher 49p with 1C TOI; B > Ribeiro 47 and had less ice time & attitude

New Jersey: Adam Henrique > Bonino. Way better. > Henrique 43p. > 0.55ppg and with less TOI

NY Islanders: Mikhail Grabovski > Bonino. Faster, better, more skilled. > Grabovski 35, who played only 58g. But >0.60ppg.

NY Rangers: Derrick Brassard > Bonino. Faster, more skilled and consistently proven. B > Brassard 45p in 3 fewer games

Ottawa: Mika Zibanejad > Bonino. Due to break out. Faster, more skilled. > Zibanejad 33p, but also >0.47ppg. B has 2 min TOI on him, though.

Philadelphia: Sean Cuturier/Brayden Schenn > Bonino. Both far better. > Couturier 39p and 0.47ppg, who played 1C minutes; > Schenn 41p and 0.50ppg

Pittsburgh: Evgeni Malkin > Bonino. Good God. Malkin is obviously a 1C and plays 1C minutes. Better than most teams' 1C.

San Jose: Logan Couture > Bonino. Way, way better. < Couture 53 points in 12 fewer games (also played 1C minutes). C is clearly better.

St Louis: Paul Stastny > Bonino. Way better. < Stastny 60p, is clearly better. Played more minutes, though.

Tampa: Valterri Flipulla > Bonino. More proven, definitely. < Flippula 58p, but F played 1C minutes.

Toronto: Nazem Kadri > Bonino. Easily better. ~ Kadri 50p, identical 0.64ppg, but K played more. 26 plus-minus differential. Obvs "easily better"

Washington: Marcus Johansson > Bonino. Underrated offensive force. Faster, more skilled. > Johansson 44p, who played more and was -21.

Winnipeg: Mark Scheiffle > Bonino. Will probably break out this season and is playing with Kane. > 34 Scheifele injured, but B 0.64ppg > 0.54ppg.

Geez.