Do you think Nick Bonino is a 2nd line Center?

[Gyllenhaal]

Ugh, I love oldnews. These past two pages are a freaking joy to read.

Ugh.

Then why don't you marry him?

[Gaudette Celly]

The claim was that Bonino was on no ones radar, not fans, stats geeks or anyone. Simply not the case. This thread is about Bonino - agree that what Ducks fans were willing to give up is irrelevent, but that point is itself irrelevent here.

The only reason he may have been "below radar" was because it was reported as late as June that Anaheim had him "off the table".

"Expect the Ducks to come calling again during draft week. They need a strong, two-way centre behind Ryan Getzlaf and Kesler fits the bill. They have two first-round picks in the June 27-28 draft in Philadelphia and could also send a centre this way — not the untouchable Nick Bonino, 26, but maybe Mathieu Perreault, 26 — and winger Kyle Palmieri, 23."

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Many+options+Canucks+consider+Ryan+Kesler/9911785/story.html

[TOMapleLaughs]

Kuz was wrong on Mr. Untouchable, but at least he was prepping us for the realistic best-case scenario for the STS Kesler trade:

"At the very least, the Canucks would get a first-rounder and two young and affordable roster players." Job done.

[Craig Ferguson]

JB sees him as one, we have the open position of 2C and they'll give him time to find his game in that role, I love the fact that he's a playmaking C too, it's the question of can his wingers step up to the plate too.

[oldnews]

The only reason he may have been "below radar" was because it was reported as late as June that Anaheim had him "off the table".

"Expect the Ducks to come calling again during draft week. They need a strong, two-way centre behind Ryan Getzlaf and Kesler fits the bill. They have two first-round picks in the June 27-28 draft in Philadelphia and could also send a centre this way — not the untouchable Nick Bonino, 26, but maybe Mathieu Perreault, 26 — and winger Kyle Palmieri, 23."

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Many+options+Canucks+consider+Ryan+Kesler/9911785/story.html

Thanks swift - exactly what I was attempting to say. Lots of people wanted him - not many thought it was that realistic.

[Diakonos]

Then why don't you marry him?

Are we in high school once again? Besides, I'm already married.

On topic: I was pretty disappointed that we couldn't get the 10th pick, but at least our 24th became McCann. It goes to show how important it is to the Ducks organization to have new players in the pipeline; they're very much a cup contender with Kesler and yet they refused to sell the farm for him!

[aGENT]

Are we in high school once again?

[Diakonos]

Those who live in glass houses... are transparent and are woken up early by the light?

Reminds me of the UBC law building, though. Ocean, mountains, and terrific facilities... man, Vancouver is magical.

[oldnews]

After watching all this I'm not quite sold on him as a top-6 center. He's a bit slow, he seems to depend on his wingers a lot, and clearly benefitted from 2nd assists to star players on the power play down there. Up here with some lesser players it's going to be tougher for him to repeat last seasons' performance.

I think I've verified my thoughts on the player. I thought he would be stretched here in a top-6 role as he played more sheltered minutes than any other Ducks center last season. As a kinda slow and inconsistent 6th rounder, he doesn't have much untapped offensive upside remaining, doesn't offer much in terms of physicality, and may find himself struggling offensively here without Getzlaf and Perry by his side. I think he has a LONG way to go before proving himself as a top-6 center.

He can win faceoffs though. This is pretty important for us, as we don't have many players who can.

Meanwhile, the Ducks will do just fine as their 'becoming ready' prospects look pretty darn good. And they added Kesler.

Looks like those second assists on the powerplay have really pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.

What could be more convinicing than a list of one phrase descriptions of plays?

Imagine a center that 'depends' on his wingers alot. Warning signs for sure. Centers shouldn't be depending on their wingers, whatever that means.

Too bad the Canucks have no talent on their powerplay units. Those assists are bound to atrophy.

And a mere Burrows/Vrbata and Kassian as wingers is bound to hurt after Bonino cashed in on Palmieri's 31 points and Beleskey's 24.

I think Bonino has a long way to go to be where he is.

Your claim that he was more "sheltered" than any other Duck center is nonsense.

Perrault's quality of competition was -0.582 to Bonino's -0.055. That's the negligible qoc concern that people here are harping so much upon? Perrault's offensive zone starts were also 54% to Bonino's 50.5%.

You guys going on about Bonino being "sheltered" are trying too hard and making the concept meaningless. By your logic there are a dozen players on every team that are "sheltered". One of the most misused terms on these boards.

As for the 'positive' point you make - that he can win faceoffs and that the Canucks don't have many centers who can - again, not really based in fact/reality. Makes me wonder about the eye you used to fill out that points summary.

Bonino was 48.8% in the faceoff circle last year.

Henrik was 52,3%

Richardson was 55.3%

Kesler was 52.6%

Santorelli was 51.3%.

The Canucks really had no problem winning faceoffs. Bonino is their biggest question mark where draws are concerned as he'll be taking a considerable quantity in a 2C role, On a positive note, he has improved from 43.0 to 46.8 to 48.8% over the past three years - not uncommon for young centers. So chances are he'll continue to improve, hold his own, and climb over 50% himself.

[Crabcakes]

re: Pierre McGuire interview on Team 1040 mid day show, Friday Aug 29

I know what some of you think of McGuire but he thinks that given the opportunity, Bonino will surprise. He's the real deal.

Bonino is from New England and McGuire claims to know something about his history. Nice if it's true.

[BanTSN]

Looks like those second assists on the powerplay have really pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.

What could be more convinicing than a list of one phrase descriptions of plays?

Imagine a center that 'depends' on his wingers alot. Warning signs for sure. Centers shouldn't be depending on their wingers, whatever that means.

Too bad the Canucks have no talent on their powerplay units. Those assists are bound to atrophy.

And a mere Burrows/Vrbata and Kassian as wingers is bound to hurt after Bonino cashed in on Palmieri's 31 points and Beleskey's 24.

I think Bonino has a long way to go to be where he is.

Your claim that he was more "sheltered" than any other Duck center is nonsense.

Perrault's quality of competition was -0.582 to Bonino's -0.055. That's the negligible qoc concern that people here are harping so much upon? Perrault's offensive zone starts were also 54% to Bonino's 50.5%.

You guys going on about Bonino being "sheltered" are trying too hard and making the concept meaningless. By your logic there are a dozen players on every team that are "sheltered". One of the most misused terms on these boards.

As for the 'positive' point you make - that he can win faceoffs and that the Canucks don't have many centers who can - again, not really based in fact/reality. Makes me wonder about the eye you used to fill out that points summary.

Bonino was 48.8% in the faceoff circle last year.

Henrik was 52,3%

Richardson was 55.3%

Kesler was 52.6%

Santorelli was 51.3%.

The Canucks really had no problem winning faceoffs. Bonino is their biggest question mark where draws are concerned as he'll be taking a considerable quantity in a 2C role, On a positive note, he has improved from 43.0 to 46.8 to 48.8% over the past three years - not uncommon for young centers. So chances are he'll continue to improve, hold his own, and climb over 50% himself.

Oh, i'm sorry. I actually watched a lot of the player instead of finding some random stats to back up a bloated argument, which you've obviously made up your mind about long ago.

Fact is he was indeed the most-sheltered center on their lineup last season based on qualcomp and ES icetime, as I had pointed out before in another thread. And his corsirel wasn't outstanding enough to put him into 'buried talent' status.

http://www.hockeyabstract.com/playerusagecharts

As you can see here, Bonino was the least-used center in Anaheim's lineup last season, even-strength. He also faced lesser competition levels than any other center. And while you could make a case for Perreault being a buried talent (the eye test revealed that he is a bit faster and more talented, but a bit smaller), Bonino's lack of speed and being able to drive the net keeps him a bit back imho.

The eyeball test concluded that while he had a decent shot and was able to bury a few in from far out, his skating wasn't all that great and he was frequently pressured off the puck easily. On the power play he wasn't instrumental at all, as it was very, very clear that Getzlaf, Perry and Fowler drove it, hence all the 2nd assists. In Vancouver he may not even Sedin time due to Vrbata being on the right boards, as he's been for pretty much his entire career, and Bonino in Anaheim was in Henrik's spot. Simple conclusion is that he'll have to run our 2nd unit, and that's effectiveness remains to be seen. There's certainly no Getzlaf, Perry or Fowler on our 2nd unit, bud.

As for faceoffs, gee, we lost our major faceoff-taker in Kesler. The positive of Bonino is that he fills that gap. I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but yes, it helps us to get a center in exchange for Kesler. I'm pretty sure that's why Benning acquired him.

Anyway, I've already determined that Bonino would be fairly stretched in a 2nd line role due to even strength icetime expectations of that role being a bit out of his reach. The eyeball test pretty much verified why. He's not all that fast and offensively he does a lot of standing around in the slot waiting for his linemates to do all the work. He was pretty much a benefactor in Anaheim, as the player useage chart indicated.

I don't think you're expecting him to be a 2nd line center either though. Pretty much the concensus on these boards is that we have a 1-3A-3B-3C scenario for centers at the moment. Bonino will be on all the lines outside of the Sedin line, imho. It's how he was used in Anaheim all last season, outside the power play.

[DeNiro]

Lol @ people using advanced stats to pretend they're coaches.

Just watch the guy play. That's what Benning did, and that's why he wanted Bonino included in the trade.

I'll take a veteran scout and GM's opinion over people using stats that they probably don't even fully comprehend.

[BanTSN]

Lol @ people using advanced stats to pretend they're coaches.

Just watch the guy play. That's what Benning did, and that's why he wanted Bonino included in the trade.

I'll take a veteran scout and GM's opinion over people using stats that they probably don't even fully comprehend.

Agreed.

[thejazz97]

Borderline 2nd line center. He could develop into one some day. If Vey, Horvat or Gaunce can step up and fill in that 3rd line role, that would make everyone's job easier.

It wouldn't be one of those three if Richardson and Matthias are both around.

[BanTSN]

The Canucks are still trying to decide whether Matthias is a center or not. Both he and Richardson are pretty much converted wingers, but i'd probably start using Matthias up the middle now that Kesler's gone. Richardson last season started looking more and more banged-up as the season wore on. He's more of a secondary checking role guy, not a primary one.

[Fred65]

I'd like to think that Vey will push Bonino for the 2nd centre spot. Every comment I've heard or read about Vey leads me to believe he's the real deal

[Gstank29]

re: Pierre McGuire interview on Team 1040 mid day show, Friday Aug 29

I know what some of you think of McGuire but he thinks that given the opportunity, Bonino will surprise. He's the real deal.

Bonino is from New England and McGuire claims to know something about his history. Nice if it's true.

link please

[nhartvig]

We need to give him something better than Higgie of Kass on the left for him to do well. Perhaps we could find a way to get Evander Kane from the Jets.

[William_Clarkson]

We need to give him something better than Higgie of Kass on the left for him to do well. Perhaps we could find a way to get Evander Kane from the Jets.

Okay, we'll put Kassian on the right the, since that's what he actually plays.

[oldnews]

Fact is he was indeed the most-sheltered center on their lineup last season based on qualcomp and ES time.

And again, you're plain wrong.

But don't let their actual qualcomp (or situational use) get in the way of a good story.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=14&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f5=ANA&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

Bonino's qualcomp -0.055

Perrault's -0.582

Both at ES / 5on5.

Perrault's offensive zone starts 54.0%

Bonino's 50.5%.

Already posted, and yet you're back to continue to argue a fiction that Bonino was in 'fact' their most 'sheltered' center.

As you can see here, Bonino was the least-used center in Anaheim's lineup last season, even-strength.

Bonino's icetime was 16:13 a game. 5 on 5 it was 11:16.

Perrault's was 13.51. 5 on 5 it was 11:20

And you're here claiming I'm seeking random irrelevent statistics - while arguing that Bonino was used 4 seconds less 5on 5, as if that indicates something.

Who made up their mind long ago? You're the poster here offering up bloated nonsense in the face of facts, and don't really understand the statistics you're referring to - or what "sheltered" actually means for that matter.