Canucks prospect Bo Horvat primed for rookie showcase

[KassianBeastMode]

Get what you're saying but there's no special formula and can just as easily be argued.

1. How do you know where he is mentally and physically? Only Bo knows the mental aspect. Physical, he and the trainers know and from all the reports I've read, he's is NHL shape.

2. That happens with every fan base and is common in every sport team.

3. That's what training camp is for. Management has said themselves if they prove they deserve to be there, they'll make room and that's the nature of the game. Once ready, have to make room for that youngster.

4. You are assuming that and have no clue as to anyone else. Tyler Toffoli entered last year and beat out Mike Richards, a heck of a player. Richards got bumped down to the 4th line cause of his play. What am I trying to say? If Bo is ready, he can easily be better than Richardson. Sure Richardson is a great role player but Horvat has bigger potential than just being a role player and can easily have a bigger impact.

...again, get what you're trying to say but there's 2 sides to the story.

Ya all fair points but think of it this way..

1. it is a big jump you are discounting, that. Mentally the issues are the pace, decision making, less time to make a play vs junior and having to think...every junior player says the biggest thing that is different is the pace and the lack of time and space you have in the NHL. This takes time to adjust to and learn...On the physical side, yes he's strong but again this is about the pace...stamina, speed, all those things that he has to develop it is also a jump....therefore....

2/3 ok

4....therefore...this is where vs vets he has a disadvantage. He is likely to develop into a much better player than those I mentioned (or at least we expect/hope) but right now, there is no way he has the experience to be so...Toffoli also had an overage year in junior, a full year in the AHL, and ten games in the NHL before he became a fixture and took a spot. I also think you are not giving credit to the center on that line (Carter), he was a big help in both those young guns on the Kings transition. If anything Toffoli helps my point, he had 2 years on Horvat before making the jump

I don't think you are really valuing the level of talent and skill a guy like richardson has and what his experience brings to a team if you believe Horvat can step in and replace him this year....my opinion but you'd never convince me of that....

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

I found a bit of that Stan Smyl interview that I mentioned in my post on the first page. It doesn't quote the entire interview that I heard, but it does provide some of the "greatest hits": http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=726018

Here are a couple key quotes:

"He plays so much in London, he's out there every second or third shift and all situations, so players pace themselves," Canucks director of player development Stan Smyl said. "But when you get to the NHL it's different. Bo sees all those things, and the biggest thing we see is his pace has to pick up to keep up. He has to be quicker on the ice and quicker with his decisions, but that will come in camp."

"Whenever you get those minutes you are always concerned with the pace of junior hockey and does it help him make our team in a year; I don't think so," Smyl said. "I think the best opportunity is now."

That's the Canucks' director of player development, saying he's "concerned" that the pace of junior hockey, at this point in Horvat's development, likely won't help him become a better pro. Smyl actually seems quite wary of sending Horvat back for another year in the OHL. It's pretty clear that he feels the "best opportunity" for Horvat to make the jump to the NHL is "now."

When someone with a title like "Canucks' director of player development" offers his opinion on our top prospect's development, it carries a fair deal of weight with me. And Smyl isn't mincing words regarding what he believes is best for Bo Horvat.

[EV604]

Love this kid, but I just don't see him making it this year, unless we make a move or he tears up pre season

[canacks1970]

To my understanding Trevor Linden was the only Canuck to play at 19.

Pavel,Hank and Dan all started at 20 years of age.

I like Bo,but a few months in junior after the World Juniors is not going to hurt his game or career.

Edit: Dale Tallon made the 19 year old threshold by six days in 1970

I believe Rick Lanz, JJ. Daigneault, Petr Nedved were playing for the Canucks at 18 -19 years of age as well.

[GreyHatnDart]

Reading most of the posts on here so far there's a lot of good points for and against. Some say it won't hurt his game if he plays in Jr again, and some say it will. So if it lands somewhere in the middle, being that it won't help nor hurt, is this really getting Bo anywhere?

KassianBeastMode makes some good points about ousting a player who is not so much better but better at the role they're playing, if Bo was to make the jump. He's right, to a point. But along that same vein, Bo is part of our future, and is a guy like Richardson? What it comes down to is Horvat will likely slot in as our 2C 2-3 years down the road. A real reach would be a 1C which would be great. Unfortunately we don't have that spot available to him at the moment, nor should we make it available. He's not ready, mentally. Not a lot of 19 year olds would be.

However, it's like when you apply for a job. Your skills are good enough for the job...you're eager and you're ready to take on the challenge. But the interviewer tells you you have no experience. Well, how does one get experience? They're given a chance of course. I'm of the mind that Horvat will get his 9 games, and then and only then will a decision be made, and vets moved.

Benning has a long range goal in mind, and that's the cup, obviously. I don't believe he's kidding himself when he looks at our current roster and thinks we're actual contenders, despite what he and Linden say to the press. What else are they supposed to say? "We won't win this year, but we want the fringe fans to come anyways."? Never gonna happen. He's put a decent product together that should challenge this year, and I hope he DOES mean what he says about youth movement.

Slot the kid in. Give him a chance. I would love to see Horvat out there this season.

[nuck nit]

I believe Rick Lanz, JJ. Daigneault, Petr Nedved were playing for the Canucks at 18 -19 years of age as well.

You're correct.

If JJ played opening night in 1984 he was 18 years old but he only played 67 games and I can't find that specific date's line-up.

If he played after opening night he was 19 years old.

He could be the only Canuck (other than Trevor) to play at 18 years of age.

[aGENT]

I found a bit of that Stan Smyl interview that I mentioned in my post on the first page. It doesn't quote the entire interview that I heard, but it does provide some of the "greatest hits": http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=726018

Here are a couple key quotes:

That's the Canucks' director of player development, saying he's "concerned" that the pace of junior hockey, at this point in Horvat's development, likely won't help him become a better pro. Smyl actually seems quite wary of sending Horvat back for another year in the OHL. It's pretty clear that he feels the "best opportunity" for Horvat to make the jump to the NHL is "now."

When someone with a title like "Canucks' director of player development" offers his opinion on our top prospect's development, it carries a fair deal of weight with me. And Smyl isn't mincing words regarding what he believes is best for Bo Horvat.

Pretty much.

I'm not saying he's ready (we'll see at camp/first 9 games if he earns them). But if he looks ready or REAL close it's in his and our best interest to develop him further at this level.

If he doesn't look ready/close, he goes back to London.

All the rest of the arguments are peripheral IMO.

[canacks1970]

You're correct.

If JJ played opening night in 1984 he was 18 years old but he only played 67 games and I can't find that specific date's line-up.

If he played after opening night he was 19 years old.

He could be the only Canuck (other than Trevor) to play at 18 years of age.

I hear ya nuck nit. If I recall back in the 80's most teams would keep their first round pick for the first 9 games. Correct me if Im wrong nuck nit. But I also believe back then some of those prospects that were sent back to Jr after the 9 games could be called back any time they wanted like a yoyo. Not like today were you either keep the player on the roster or send him back to jr for the year.

[nuck nit]

I hear ya nuck nit. If I recall back in the 80's most teams would keep their first round pick for the first 9 games. Correct me if Im wrong nuck nit. But I also believe back then some of those prospects that were sent back to Jr after the 9 games could be called back any time they wanted like a yoyo. Not like today were you either keep the player on the roster or send him back to jr for the year.

TBH,I can't remember. The 80's were a long time ago for me.

However,the process is explained in great detail with various players and NHL GM's in this informative NHL.com article which includes the basics:

The NHL's Collective Bargaining Agreement allows for nine games at the start of the regular season during which a player on his entry-level contract can be evaluated. The player can be returned to his junior team without his contract kicking in at any point before the player dresses for his 10th game.

If the player skates in more than nine games, he still can be returned to his junior team, but the first year of his contract goes into effect and the player could reach free agency at an accelerated pace. Plus, once sent down after the nine-game mark, he can't be recalled during that season, except under emergency conditions.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=687400

Some teams need to sell tickets,some marginal teams need to fill a hole on a roster. Some kids are deemed 'ready' and some are not for every reason under the sun. Sakic was sent back and although Stamkos played at 18 he himself was unsure he should be playing in the NHL. Interesting read.

[KassianBeastMode]

I found a bit of that Stan Smyl interview that I mentioned in my post on the first page. It doesn't quote the entire interview that I heard, but it does provide some of the "greatest hits": http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=726018

Here are a couple key quotes:

That's the Canucks' director of player development, saying he's "concerned" that the pace of junior hockey, at this point in Horvat's development, likely won't help him become a better pro. Smyl actually seems quite wary of sending Horvat back for another year in the OHL. It's pretty clear that he feels the "best opportunity" for Horvat to make the jump to the NHL is "now."

When someone with a title like "Canucks' director of player development" offers his opinion on our top prospect's development, it carries a fair deal of weight with me. And Smyl isn't mincing words regarding what he believes is best for Bo Horvat.

Fair retort, I hadn't seen this quote...and no I don't know more than smyl! lol....but at the same time, it will be a committee decision so while Smyl may feel this way, others may not ....but clearly you have made a very very strong point in regards to my suggestion that going back to the OHL won't hinder him in any way...

I had mentioned that he was 'slowing down his game' a bit because he could and alluded to this being the biggest worry/concern...perhaps its a bigger concern than I gave it credence...

We shall see, heck I'd love to see him in the lineup, just not at the cost of moving a guy like Richie...Hansen, ok maybe, I can buy that as we have Higgins but I also think we need a player like Jensen on the team, one of the few real snipers we have...

Perhaps the nucks will be less concerned about burning a year of his salary and given him the first 1/2 of the year to see what he has...(more than 9 games) a longer look....then make the decision post world juniors

[icycold]

Ah yes the CDC where people jump all over everything and change it, First... Bo is fine with another year to hone ALL of his skills and hit the ground running next yr IF necessary, from what saw in a lot of Bo's highlights to do with speed NEWSFLASH! It's actually fine but to make a complete well rounded player that we need from Bo is skating too since he's in a bigger frame.

We did great in this trade at the end of the day, ok i may pis_ off a few people with this BUT imo, he's a better version of COHO (just sayin) Bigger as in weight wise and can dominate on the puck control and not to mention he's hard hitting in the corners. Bo doesn't really have a ceiling except what he puts on himself but from what he said, he knows there's nothing handed to him and i think he's too mature to have his confidence shattered or hurt if he's doesn't make it this yr. Typical CDC and vancouver media hype yet again, man does it ever stop?

[Guest Dasein]

Ah yes the CDC where people jump all over everything and change it, First... Bo is fine with another year to hone ALL of his skills and hit the ground running next yr IF necessary, from what saw in a lot of Bo's highlights to do with speed NEWSFLASH! It's actually fine but to make a complete well rounded player that we need from Bo is skating too since he's in a bigger frame.

We did great in this trade at the end of the day, ok i may pis_ off a few people with this BUT imo, he's a better version of COHO (just sayin) Bigger as in weight wise and can dominate on the puck control and not to mention he's hard hitting in the corners. Bo doesn't really have a ceiling except what he puts on himself but from what he said, he knows there's nothing handed to him and i think he's too mature to have his confidence shattered or hurt if he's doesn't make it this yr. Typical CDC and vancouver media hype yet again, man does it ever stop?

Ooo how quickly they forget..

Two completely different players. BoHo is better defensively and is more well-rounded. CoHo is better offensively. They aren't really comparable.

[Thunder Bunnies]

Sedin Sedin Vrbata

Burrows Bonino Jensen

Higgins Horvat Kassian

Matthias Vey Hansen

// Richardson // Dorsett // Sestito

Hamhuis Bieksa

Edler Tanev

Sbisa Stanton

// Corrado

Miller

Lack

[Knucklehd]

Ironing? not doing any ironing sorry! LOL!

To your point...Coho and Horvat are similar players friend, but I qualify it by saying Bo is a better skater and bigger but their upsides are the same.

CoHo was captain Canada, actually had better stats in Junior that Horvat

He is 6'0 185

Offensivlely better and in his draft year actually considered an excellent 2 way player with character and leadership, its why he was drafted so high.

Bo

6'0 206 - ie Bigger. Is a better skater but his skating is not his strength, ie he's no Shinkaruk

Also expected to be the Captain of the Canadian world Junior team, considered an excellent 2 way player with character and leadership, its why he was taken 'off the board' and drafted higher than expected.

You may have issues with CoHo now after seeing we were wrong about him but in his draft year friend vs Bo's draft year these two players would be considered marginally different, One has more points, one has more size and slightly better skating, everything else is the same...

Think deeper....

Also, I am not saying Horvat will be like Coho what I said was at this stage (19 yrs old) there is plenty of similarities in their projections.

Sorry, just my opinion, but I think your out to lunch on that comparison. CoHo had a great WJC, which hid his lack of defensive play. He cheated a lot, but didn't get burned, while being on a great WJC team. Not to mention attitude, these two are very different players.

[KassianBeastMode]

Ah yes the CDC where people jump all over everything and change it, First... Bo is fine with another year to hone ALL of his skills and hit the ground running next yr IF necessary, from what saw in a lot of Bo's highlights to do with speed NEWSFLASH! It's actually fine but to make a complete well rounded player that we need from Bo is skating too since he's in a bigger frame.

We did great in this trade at the end of the day, ok i may pis_ off a few people with this BUT imo, he's a better version of COHO (just sayin) Bigger as in weight wise and can dominate on the puck control and not to mention he's hard hitting in the corners. Bo doesn't really have a ceiling except what he puts on himself but from what he said, he knows there's nothing handed to him and i think he's too mature to have his confidence shattered or hurt if he's doesn't make it this yr. Typical CDC and vancouver media hype yet again, man does it ever stop?

exactly what I said in another post...both players at their draft years had very similar projections/analysis other than size and Bo being a better skater (but again he isn't a high end skater, simply adequate)...

One dude jumped on me till I found 2 scouting reports and bolded all the similarities....

Agree Bo seems very mature, focused, confident in his skills and if sent back will see it as more time to develop / work on certain areas, nothing else

[KassianBeastMode]

Sorry, just my opinion, but I think your out to lunch on that comparison. CoHo had a great WJC, which hid his lack of defensive play. He cheated a lot, but didn't get burned, while being on a great WJC team. Not to mention attitude, these two are very different players.

go read the post where I posted the scouting reports on both players...thanks

[bp79]

So far iv'e noticed with bo is exactly what you here about him. he is so cererberal out there he makes everything look easy. doe's anyone else agree that he would be more noticable if he had pro's on his line? What i mean by that is he makes plays that are being wasted by some of these younger guys. I watched on one sequence on the pp where he fed it twice back to the d, and once to i think it was zaleski, all 3 times it was almost like they wern't ready for the pinpoint pass. I dunno maybe im wrong but i think we will be able to gauge boho when he is in main camp.

[Bure to Mogilny]

So far iv'e noticed with bo is exactly what you here about him. he is so cererberal out there he makes everything look easy. doe's anyone else agree that he would be more noticable if he had pro's on his line? What i mean by that is he makes plays that are being wasted by some of these younger guys. I watched on one sequence on the pp where he fed it twice back to the d, and once to i think it was zaleski, all 3 times it was almost like they wern't ready for the pinpoint pass. I dunno maybe im wrong but i think we will be able to gauge boho when he is in main camp.

Yeah i a gree. Done better then we thought would. Hes no Nich but we have to stop expeting that i guess

[EV604]

Everyone can just stop talking about him making the team. He looks average out there against these rookies and will only get worst when he's in main camp. Looks slow....

Shinkaruk on he other hand has been as advertised, quick, great hands and always buzzing in the offensive zone no matter what line he's on.

[stawns]

He may well turn into a solid two way player, rather than a game breaking offensive force. He's going to be a very solid player in the league and if Bo Horvat turns out to be a guy who can make a run at a selke, I won't complain in the least.