The Bookie Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Screw that. When I'm cruisin in my tractor, just me and my donkey, I'm goin 40 and I'm using the H-O-V Cuz-I-Can. Kiss my ass suckas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Yes, and there is no "keep right except to pass" law in BC - just in case you didn't get that. He did get it.. just his way of apologizing for being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Island drivers do not go under the speed limit, I find on my visits from Calgary that they are shockingly speeding worse than drivers here! You'll have more people doing the slow speeds on the island, but the pace is much higher. And speed limits were designed to reduce fuel consumption and demand back in the 70s. Problem is that limits have not been increased with the improved safety of vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Yes, and there is no "keep right except to pass" law in BC - just in case you didn't get that. Please show me where I've ever said keep right except to pass in trying to prove my point. I've only ever said only slower traffic keep right as mentioned in the reply you've supplied which J.R. already pointed out. You yourself have defined the slower traffic keep right law early in the thread iirc. That's because it's more typically worded "Slower traffic keep right" (which he addressed FWIW). Your buddy you're emailing is being persnickety with his wording. And strangely, according to the government webpage, we have recognized, regulatory signs for both. Seems to me they do actually exist, they're simply not (much to my dismay) rigorously enforced. http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/ID/freeside/26_58_06 Indeed, I saw many, many keep right except to pass signs going to and from Penticton for the Young Stars tourney. Again, there is no "keep right except to pass" LAW in BC. "Slow moving drivers" implies do less than the speed limit and must drive in the "right" lane, not move from the HOV lane into the middle (what I call the passing) lane and move over again. Means they need to be in the right lane - like a tractor or what have you that has say a max speed of 60 km/h. And yet again you're trying to change the argument to prove your point. But again you're making an assumption you can't prove using the laws in the motor vehicle act. I can do that to, it's actually "slower traffic keep right" and and if you're slower than the other traffic in your lane you should move one lane to the right, repeating as many times as necessary until you are no longer slower. That doesn't mean you have to move all the way to the right if you are still moving faster than that lane or others and could pass other vehicles still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 He did get it.. just his way of apologizing for being wrong. Actually, if you read carefully, he agreed I was right and then tried to change the subject (which was then sadly for him linked to in the motor vehicle act by J.R. to show it's a part of the regulations). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Actually, if you read carefully, he agreed I was right and then tried to change the subject (which was then sadly for him linked to in the motor vehicle act by J.R. to show it's a part of the regulations). That's his fault for agreeing you were right. You were wrong all along about drivers in the HOV lane having to move over for faster drivers. This was the only important part of this discussion. Whatever these other petty sub-arguments that spawned from it are irrelevant to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Even in the face of evidence supplied by someone who was supporting your same position giving a reply from an executive director in the Ministry of Transportation of Infrastructure you still want to say I'm wrong when you're provided nothing that proves your point. I'll just ignore whatever else you're saying on the subject then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Even in the face of evidence supplied by someone who was supporting your same position giving a reply from an executive director in the Ministry of Transportation of Infrastructure you still want to say I'm wrong when you're provided nothing that proves your point. I'll just ignore whatever else you're saying on the subject then. "BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers to "keep right except to pass" = People in HOV lane are not required to exit the lane for slower drivers, i.e. "keep right except to pass", a codified law for freeway driving, especially in BC, the HOV lane is exempt from. Simple, even for people who are ESL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Actually, if you read carefully, he agreed I was right and then tried to change the subject (which was then sadly for him linked to in the motor vehicle act by J.R. to show it's a part of the regulations). No I didn't. Stop trolling. No idea why you guys can't understand it: Strictly speaking, at this time BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers to "keep right except to pass". Currently, slow moving drivers must drive in the right lane, but we are reviewing the possibility of implementing an explicit requirement to "keep right except to pass" to address public concern over slow drivers using lanes that are generally considered to be "passing lanes". We are considering the implications for HOV lanes as part of our review. IE HOV lanes are DIFFERENT! Also, they are looking at what Washington has done and their wording. Let me repeat that: at this time BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers to "keep right except to pass". In other words, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE BLOODY HOV LANE WHEN YOU"RE DOING THE SPEED LIMIT!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Please show me where I've ever said keep right except to pass in trying to prove my point. I've only ever said only slower traffic keep right as mentioned in the reply you've supplied which J.R. already pointed out. You yourself have defined the slower traffic keep right law early in the thread iirc. Indeed, I saw many, many keep right except to pass signs going to and from Penticton for the Young Stars tourney. And yet again you're trying to change the argument to prove your point. But again you're making an assumption you can't prove using the laws in the motor vehicle act. I can do that to, it's actually "slower traffic keep right" and and if you're slower than the other traffic in your lane you should move one lane to the right, repeating as many times as necessary until you are no longer slower. That doesn't mean you have to move all the way to the right if you are still moving faster than that lane or others and could pass other vehicles still. What other "signs" did you see? There's a difference between a "sign" and a law. BTW, exactly what point since the beginning of this thread have you been trying to prove? Please spell it out. Did you forget this statement as well? "Since a vehicle can legally change lanes only where the line is dashed or broken, then vehicles in the HOV lane are not able to pass another vehicle in the HOV lane unless they exit the HOV lane and merge with the conventional traffic. " The HOV lane is not part of CONVENTIONAL TRAFFIC! Get it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 What other "signs" did you see? There's a difference between a "sign" and a law. BTW, exactly what point since the beginning of this thread have you been trying to prove? Please spell it out. Did you forget this statement as well? "Since a vehicle can legally change lanes only where the line is dashed or broken, then vehicles in the HOV lane are not able to pass another vehicle in the HOV lane unless they exit the HOV lane and merge with the conventional traffic. " The HOV lane is not part of CONVENTIONAL TRAFFIC! Get it now? I'd just accept the first post of his, after you posting the second Ministry response, as an apology, given his abandonment of his prior position regarding "keep right except to pass". Just take what you get and leave it at that. You've put enough effort into correcting his misinformation, the diversion tactics and goalpost moving he's using is only further emphasis of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 "BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers to "keep right except to pass" = People in HOV lane are not required to exit the lane for slower drivers, i.e. "keep right except to pass", a codified law for freeway driving, especially in BC, the HOV lane is exempt from. Simple, even for people who are ESL. Please show me when I have ever used keep right except to pass to make my point. I've always used slower traffic keep right, and of course that's mentioned in the rest of the quote Heretic supplied. You can say the HOV lane is exempt from keep right except to pass, but since "BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers" to do so, the other lanes to the right of the HOV are also exempt. The specific example I can think of where keep right except to pass is applicable is where there is a specific passing lane designated on a short portion of highway which is single lane otherwise. That is when you see a posted sign saying keep right except to pass. I'd think it's also used on other areas of highway with long stretches of two or more lanes, but we're talking about areas with HOV lanes specifically. How you aren't understanding the difference between the two and that I'm only debating one of them I don't know. No I didn't. Stop trolling. No idea why you guys can't understand it: Strictly speaking, at this time BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers to "keep right except to pass". Currently, slow moving drivers must drive in the right lane, but we are reviewing the possibility of implementing an explicit requirement to "keep right except to pass" to address public concern over slow drivers using lanes that are generally considered to be "passing lanes". We are considering the implications for HOV lanes as part of our review. IE HOV lanes are DIFFERENT! Also, they are looking at what Washington has done and their wording. Let me repeat that: at this time BC does not have a regulation requiring drivers to "keep right except to pass". In other words, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE BLOODY HOV LANE WHEN YOU"RE DOING THE SPEED LIMIT!!!!!!!!!! That's not trolling, that's you following my statement that there is no exemption for the HOV lane from the laws that govern driving with the word 'yes'. I took that as acceptance of my statement. If you were being sarcastic and I missed it then that's on me. You can keep saying HOV lanes are different with the intent that it makes them exempt from portions of the motor vehicle act, but that doesn't say that. That says they are considering implementing a keep right except to pass law/regulation and he took special care to mention the HOV lane would be considered as a part of that review rather than it being excluded as it might be if it really were a special lane already exempted from other laws in the motor vehicle act. The HOV lane is different though since it has a special condition of occupancy. I've said that all along, so we agree there. That's all though, as that doesn't exempt it from the rest of the laws of driving or anything else (regulations, road signs, etc.) unless otherwise specified. In other words, those are your words and opinion of the facts when I see nothing that says that at all since I'VE NEVER ONCE USED KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS AS A BASIS FOR MY POINT!!!!!!!! What other "signs" did you see? There's a difference between a "sign" and a law. BTW, exactly what point since the beginning of this thread have you been trying to prove? Please spell it out. Did you forget this statement as well? "Since a vehicle can legally change lanes only where the line is dashed or broken, then vehicles in the HOV lane are not able to pass another vehicle in the HOV lane unless they exit the HOV lane and merge with the conventional traffic. " The HOV lane is not part of CONVENTIONAL TRAFFIC! Get it now? I never said keep right except to pass was a law, I said it was on the page with all the regulations. Regulations which you posted for us earlier in the thread. I've spelled it out several times, yet you want to keep spinning things and changing your point. For instance, I've never said people could leave the HOV lane at any time. We again agree on something, in this case that the solid white line doesn't allow either the front car or the car following to change lanes. Where we disagree is that when that line changes to a dotted line the law states that slower traffic should keep right. There is no exemption for the HOV lane from that law that anyone's been able to show, so any car that is impeding traffic should merge one lane to the right once it's safe to do so. That of course is with the understanding that it's legal since there's a dotted line and assuming they are only going as fast or slower than the normal speed of traffic in the other lanes. If the other lanes are stop and go traffic and the HOV lane is not congested, then I have no issue with someone staying in that lane even with other people behind them. But once the traffic in the other lanes clears up vehicles in the HOV lane don't have a right to stay in that lane solely because they meet the occupancy limit if it means they are acting counter to the other laws that govern driving. 'Conventional traffic' is not an exemption, only an acknowledgement that the traffic in the HOV lane has the singular condition of a required minimum occupancy. But this is me restating the same thing I've been saying from the beginning and you two talking about things I'm not even debating to try and prove your point. Show me specifically where it says the HOV lane is exempt from slower traffic keep right regardless of the situation and we can end this now. I'd also accept a statement from a qualified expert that states a vehicle otherwise qualified to be in the HOV lane due to the occupancy criteria is not required by law to merge to the right when it's safe and legal to do so if there is traffic behind them and they are doing the speed limit, regardless of what the normal speed of traffic is around them. If you don't have that, then there's no point continuing to debate with you two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just some of the early quotes from Heretic as reference even though I've requoted much of Heretic's stuff already. You need to look at the "law": "On multi-lane roadways, the standard is to use the “Slower Traffic Keep Right” sign. Using the “Keep Right Except to Pass” sign tends to force drivers into the right lane which is not desirable on high volume urban highways where all lanes must be used to handle capacity. Outside of B.C., the “Keep Right Except to Pass” sign is used on passing and climbing lanes on 2 lane rural highways." That sums up my take on the difference between the two and where keep right except to pass would be used in situations outside of what we're debating here. HOV lanes only occur on those urban highways where all lanes must be used to handle capacity, so keep right except to pass isn't specifically right but the intent is obvious for anyone using that term and should be pretty reasonable to translate to slower traffic keep right. http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/trafficcontrol/Motor_Vehicle_Act_&_Regs_Excerpts.pdf "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT (Regulatory) Vehicles proceeding at less than the normal speed of traffic must use the right hand lane." Normal speed of traffic can not exceed the max speed limit. I left the last line in, but need to clarify those are your words and not anything directly quoted from the link or anywhere in the motor vehicle act. The normal speed of traffic can and does exceed the speed limit. The bolded words are the only ones directly from the MVA. Oh boy, sorry, I posted where I found it - there is a link there to this: http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96318_05#section150 "The driver of a vehicle proceeding at less than normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing must drive the vehicle in the right hand lane then available for traffic, or as closely as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway, except when overtaking and passing a vehicle proceeding in the same direction, or when preparing for a left hand turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway." Just adding another quote of yours from earlier to show where you've been posting things that were proving our points early on. These aren't restrictive to any particular lanes, and since the HOV lane isn't specifically exempted anywhere in the MVA that you've shown we've been saying they apply to every lane regardless of any special occupancy restriction or whether there is a solid line or dotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just some of the early quotes from Heretic as reference even though I've requoted much of Heretic's stuff already. That sums up my take on the difference between the two and where keep right except to pass would be used in situations outside of what we're debating here. HOV lanes only occur on those urban highways where all lanes must be used to handle capacity, so keep right except to pass isn't specifically right but the intent is obvious for anyone using that term and should be pretty reasonable to translate to slower traffic keep right. I left the last line in, but need to clarify those are your words and not anything directly quoted from the link or anywhere in the motor vehicle act. The normal speed of traffic can and does exceed the speed limit. The bolded words are the only ones directly from the MVA. Just adding another quote of yours from earlier to show where you've been posting things that were proving our points early on. These aren't restrictive to any particular lanes, and since the HOV lane isn't specifically exempted anywhere in the MVA that you've shown we've been saying they apply to every lane regardless of any special occupancy restriction or whether there is a solid line or dotted. Please state your point instead of just cut and pasting my posts. It's hard to debate someone that keeps changing their tune and just keeps spinning (do you write speeches for the Liberals?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just don't be douche and stay right. What is the point of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just don't be douche and stay right. What is the point of this... Just don't be a road rage maniac and think you own the road. I agree with stay right for conventional lanes of traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just don't be a road rage maniac and think you own the road. I agree with stay right for conventional lanes of traffic. Lol going faster than you equals road rage maniac...You're too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Lol going faster than you equals road rage maniac...You're too much. I didn't say that - please learn to read and comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I didn't say that - please learn to read and comprehend. That's rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 That's rich. You need to move to the right as you're going slower than the rest of the traffic here. Thanks for not being a douche. (your words). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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