Why does everyone drive above the posted speed limit?

[Heretic]

I'm guessing it wasn't a compliment

Looking forward to watching the game tonight. Sure hope people don't drive slow in the left lane on my way home

I know, trying to roll with the punches.

Are you going to the game? Lucky you!

Just avoid highway 1 and you'll be fine.

[Mr. Ambien]

Right, because I never did. Perhaps you misread or perhaps I wasn't clear as could be. Either way, you seem to be making silly exaggerations based on silly assumptions.

I'm just a silly guy.

[BI3KSA-]

Seriously, everyone is in a mad rush to go nowhere important.

I find it funny all these 'people are intelligent enough to...' comments. Considering the number of daily crashes in Metro Van, obviously they are not. I think speeds on highways should be raised, local roads should be lowered.

But, I agree with Ron (yikes) about fluctuating speeds depending on the time of day/traffic. That type of system should also be used for tolls, transit costs, ferry costs, all sorts of things. We have the technology to do it but we're stuck in this static price for all mentality.

Not only that but how often does speeding actually get you somewhere that much faster? The amount of times I've seen someone going 20+ over the speed of traffic, weaving through traffic only to get stuck behind another slow driver or have everyone catch up to him at the next light anyways, is countless. There really isn't much point to going that much faster than the speed of traffic, all you are going to do is needlessly endanger everyone else and yourself and probably end up looking like a jerkoff at the next light when everyone else catches up to you anyways.

[Kragar]

But then the point I'd brought up which no one had answered was that you have to merge through multiple lanes in order to even get to it. On top of that once you get to the left most lane next to the HOV, you may have to wait until the solid white line becomes dotted. Since that's a 'fast lane' you could potentially have to merge right (maybe even multiple times) and then back left when it's clear if you aren't travelling as fast as other cars in that lane.

Clearly, in congested traffic like rush hour you would have to merge through slow/stop and go traffic to get over (and likely not have to merge back right because you were going slower than others) before getting into the HOV lane, but the safety concern for all that merging (and the opposite merging for when you're looking to exit the highway) surely presents a valid counter to any safety increase the HOV lane gives once you're there.

He also now didn't say anything about driving slower, which is the whole premise (i.e. slower traffic keep right) so you aren't going to convince him of anything.

Agree to a point, but it all comes down to how long you intend to drive there. if you are only staying on the freeway for a few exits, getting to the HOV lane may not be worth it. If you are going from Boundary to Surrey, I would say it is safer moving to the HOV lane. If you don't, you have more cars to tend with as they merge into your lane, from either side.

I have a 55km (33 mile) commute, each way. The freeway I take has 4 lanes plus HOV. My work does not make it convenient to carpool, and I do not have an enviro-friendly car that allows HOV lane use for single-occupant vehicles. So no HOV for me for work.

Instead, my goal is to get over to the leftmost lane I can use, and stay there until I have to leave the freeway, therefore limiting the number of times I need to change lanes while balancing it against desired traffic flow.

The more you change lanes, the more you slow down other traffic, and IMO open yourself up to further risk of accident, since it is another opportunity to make a mistake. I may lose out on some time getting stuck behind someone driving to slow for the lane they are in, and if it's bad enough I will pull around and pass them, but the drive is safer than those jumping into whatever lane seems best at any given moment.

Of course, I am older now and a less aggressive driver than I used to be. I used to switch lanes often, trying to get somewhere faster. But, in the long run it doesn't save much time, and only uses up more gas. And upsets other people when you cut them off.

When I am driving with someone else, and staying on the freeway for more than 10 miles, the only thing that gets me out of the HOV lane is some dufus driving too slow, or my upcoming offramp.

I hadn't read the whole thread, so didn't see all previous points/questions. The way you re-state your question here, it sounds like you are talking about a slower vehicle moving over to HOV. IMO, HOV drivers should be driving the same speed as most of the fast-lane drivers (assuming all lanes are moving freely). If you are someone who wants to do the speed limit and nothing more, and the fast lane is going too much over the speed limit for your comfort, then staying to the right is the place to be as there is definitely risk in trying to get over to the HOV.

In congested traffic, where fast lane speed is less of an issue, its a personal choice. If you are only changing lanes to get to the HOV, and then off the freeway, a few lane changes in slower traffic should not be that risky. And if getting over to the HOV takes you away from the bulk of other people's lane changes, so much the better. Remember, while you sit in the right lane, you deal with big rigs and other trucks limiting your forward visibility, and every car ahead of you coming into your lane, from either side, impacts your drive and risk level. Also more wear an tear on brakes dealing with others coming into your late, and your mileage isn't as good the more you have to brake.

[elvis15]

...

I hadn't read the whole thread, so didn't see all previous points/questions. The way you re-state your question here, it sounds like you are talking about a slower vehicle moving over to HOV. IMO, HOV drivers should be driving the same speed as most of the fast-lane drivers (assuming all lanes are moving freely). If you are someone who wants to do the speed limit and nothing more, and the fast lane is going too much over the speed limit for your comfort, then staying to the right is the place to be as there is definitely risk in trying to get over to the HOV.

In congested traffic, where fast lane speed is less of an issue, its a personal choice. If you are only changing lanes to get to the HOV, and then off the freeway, a few lane changes in slower traffic should not be that risky. And if getting over to the HOV takes you away from the bulk of other people's lane changes, so much the better. Remember, while you sit in the right lane, you deal with big rigs and other trucks limiting your forward visibility, and every car ahead of you coming into your lane, from either side, impacts your drive and risk level. Also more wear an tear on brakes dealing with others coming into your late, and your mileage isn't as good the more you have to brake.

While I agree to an extent on the talk of safety staying in one lane versus another, you still have to deal with others around you whatever lane you're in. Without any kind of study to prove one way or another, we'll have to agree to disagree on just how much safer one approach is compared to the other. ronthecivil may be able to weigh in on if there's any study to that effect, but I don't know of one.

But as for the previous points and questions, my viewpoint is the HOV lane must abide by all regular laws and regulations that govern driving in the motor vehicle act unless otherwise exempted. The motor vehicle act does specifically state some exemptions, like if you are passing another vehicle (after which you should again merge right) or if you have an upcoming left turn that otherwise wouldn't be accessible outside the HOV lane. 'Slower traffic keep right' is not listed among those exemptions though, so merging to the right if you are slower traffic than others behind you still applies in the HOV lane - particularly if you are slower than the normal speed of traffic in the other lanes to the right.

The other viewpoint is that legally you don't have to abide by slower traffic keep right if you have the opportunity to merge to the right when there's a dotted line and it's safe to do so as long as you are in the HOV lane and doing the speed limit. The people arguing that believe that the HOV lane is a completely separate lane and has it's own standards making it exempt from the laws and regulations that govern driving for all other lanes in the motor vehicle act, despite there being no specific mention of that at all.

I've agreed on some points they've made (like you're generally fine in the HOV lane if you meet the occupancy requirement during rush hour/congested traffic as you'll be passing the vehicles in grid lock to the right) but we fundamentally differ on the two points stated above whether the HOV lane has the same laws and regulations that apply to it (unless otherwise exempted) as all other lanes would on the same road.

[Kragar]

Elvis, in some cases you may be dealing with HOV lanes I am not familiar with. Are there HOV lanes in non-freeway roads? The idea of needing to make a left turn that would require you to go through the HOV lane to get there is news to me, so I can see where not all of my points are valid.

But as for the previous points and questions, my viewpoint is the HOV lane must abide by all regular laws and regulations that govern driving in the motor vehicle act unless otherwise exempted. The motor vehicle act does specifically state some exemptions, like if you are passing another vehicle (after which you should again merge right) or if you have an upcoming left turn that otherwise wouldn't be accessible outside the HOV lane. 'Slower traffic keep right' is not listed among those exemptions though, so merging to the right if you are slower traffic than others behind you still applies in the HOV lane - particularly if you are slower than the normal speed of traffic in the other lanes to the right.

The other viewpoint is that legally you don't have to abide by slower traffic keep right if you have the opportunity to merge to the right when there's a dotted line and it's safe to do so as long as you are in the HOV lane and doing the speed limit. The people arguing that believe that the HOV lane is a completely separate lane and has it's own standards making it exempt from the laws and regulations that govern driving for all other lanes in the motor vehicle act, despite there being no specific mention of that at all.

I've agreed on some points they've made (like you're generally fine in the HOV lane if you meet the occupancy requirement during rush hour/congested traffic as you'll be passing the vehicles in grid lock to the right) but we fundamentally differ on the two points stated above whether the HOV lane has the same laws and regulations that apply to it (unless otherwise exempted) as all other lanes would on the same road.

I agree about following the rules. Now, I'm no choir boy when it comes to speeding a little (going with the flow). It may not be right, but for the most part, it's not considered too wrong here. I'm not one to cross the solid line, but it happens a lot down here. It used to really piss me off, but I have mellowed out when others do it

[elvis15]

Elvis, in some cases you may be dealing with HOV lanes I am not familiar with. Are there HOV lanes in non-freeway roads? The idea of needing to make a left turn that would require you to go through the HOV lane to get there is news to me, so I can see where not all of my points are valid.

...

I'm sure there are roads with the HOV on the left hand side that flow through intersections where a left hand turn would be included, but the examples I can think of are where the HOV is on the right side. For instance in Kelowna, the main road through town has the HOV on the right and while it's the continuation of the highway North/South through the Okanagan it's also a regular road with intersections, lights, etc. (much like Lougheed Hwy). In order to turn right anywhere along there, you have to use the HOV lane. Similarly with Pinetree Way beside Coquitlam Center, there's a stretch there with an HOV lane (I think it's just for buses) and you have to use that lane to turn right.

I shouldn't have specified left hand turns, but using the HOV for an upcoming turn is actually written as an exception in the motor vehicle act.

...

I agree about following the rules. Now, I'm no choir boy when it comes to speeding a little (going with the flow). It may not be right, but for the most part, it's not considered too wrong here. I'm not one to cross the solid line, but it happens a lot down here. It used to really piss me off, but I have mellowed out when others do it

I speed a bit, and even cross the solid white line to enter/exit the HOV lane rather than waiting for an opportunity when it might be more congested if it helps me do so more safely. But I always drive safely and don't tailgate (not that people would use their mirrors to see me and then move over if I did). I pass on the right - HOV or not - far more often than I ever see someone merge right as slower traffic to allow others to pass because people don't pay attention/ignore the law.

Even (most of) the people in this thread who believe they legally have the right to stay in the HOV lane so long as they're driving the speed limit have said they move to the right if they're slower traffic, so I'm not sure why they're so obstinate about it.

[Xbox]

Because the speed limits are too damn low.

School areas should be 40 (which it is)

Regular roads should be 60

Rural areas should be 80 (most are, but I've seen the odd one be 60km and it seems like I'm driving as slow as a snail).

and Highway should be 120 (which it unofficially is).

We don't need any 50,70,90 crap either.

[elvis15]

Uh, aren't school areas 30? And I'm fine with that when there are more kids out and you have to be mindful - especially on what could be a narrower street. There are cases where roads can and should be slower as well, but a lot can be higher.

[Xbox]

Uh, aren't school areas 30? And I'm fine with that when there are more kids out and you have to be mindful - especially on what could be a narrower street. There are cases where roads can and should be slower as well, but a lot can be higher.

40km here in Ontario

[elvis15]

Oh, well we're in BC man! I know, I know, not everyone is so it's interesting to know about other areas too.

[Dittohead]

come over to Victoria where I'd say 1/2 the people drive under the speedlimit 40-50 in a 60 zone and 30-40 in a 50 zone. and hog the passing/fast lane on the pat bay hwy and you usually have to use your brakes going up a hill.

[Gurn]

I've got a 30 klick drive to town (Powell River) at 80kph and always catch up to folk driving 50-65 k on the single lane highway. Then we get to the municipal border where these slow folk ignore the 50 klick sign and either speed up to 60 or stay at the 60 they were doing all the time.

Rocket launcher time.

[ronthecivil]

I've got a 30 klick drive to town (Powell River) at 80kph and always catch up to folk driving 50-65 k on the single lane highway. Then we get to the municipal border where these slow folk ignore the 50 klick sign and either speed up to 60 or stay at the 60 they were doing all the time.

Rocket launcher time.

Mandatory driver testing time more like it. It shows they are loosing their ability to be aware of their surroundings as well as their reaction time required for higher speeds.

Not too much longer you end up with the situations where someone hits the gas instead of the brakes pulling into a parking spot and whammo right through the front window.

They used to have mandatory testing after a certain age but a CKNW shame campaign (they know their audience I will give them that) resulted in the province pulling it. Right after a oop called in and said they should have to go and check out the results of letting these accidents be the indication that one is no longer ready to drive when someone has the misfortune of being on the sidewalk at that time and then see how proud they are of their campaign.

Not only should the google car be allowed, the sooner they are mandatory, the better. People are obviously legends in their own minds despite being the very hazards they and everyone else is most frightful of.

[ronthecivil]

I'm sure there are roads with the HOV on the left hand side that flow through intersections where a left hand turn would be included, but the examples I can think of are where the HOV is on the right side. For instance in Kelowna, the main road through town has the HOV on the right and while it's the continuation of the highway North/South through the Okanagan it's also a regular road with intersections, lights, etc. (much like Lougheed Hwy). In order to turn right anywhere along there, you have to use the HOV lane. Similarly with Pinetree Way beside Coquitlam Center, there's a stretch there with an HOV lane (I think it's just for buses) and you have to use that lane to turn right.

I shouldn't have specified left hand turns, but using the HOV for an upcoming turn is actually written as an exception in the motor vehicle act.

I speed a bit, and even cross the solid white line to enter/exit the HOV lane rather than waiting for an opportunity when it might be more congested if it helps me do so more safely. But I always drive safely and don't tailgate (not that people would use their mirrors to see me and then move over if I did). I pass on the right - HOV or not - far more often than I ever see someone merge right as slower traffic to allow others to pass because people don't pay attention/ignore the law.

Even (most of) the people in this thread who believe they legally have the right to stay in the HOV lane so long as they're driving the speed limit have said they move to the right if they're slower traffic, so I'm not sure why they're so obstinate about it.

If people knew how to drive and did so in a safe and courteous manner I can think of no reason to have solid white lines just about anywhere.

The HOV ones are to stop people from excessive weaving. This would not be a problem if everyone just drove with the flow, kept to the right if a bit slower, moved to the right if obstructing traffic, and the people driving greatly in excess of the 85th percentile speed were nailed by the cops, repeately, and harshly.

The ones at exit and entrance ramps would not be needed if people knew how to merge and deal with merging traffic at entrance or in the case of exits paid head to "exit ahead" indicators and merged off with the exit taper. I can think of a few spots I know of where I have or do drive a lot where I know that if there's a big gap right there that I can gun it to get in between the traffic and fit into the big empty spot. Because I accelerate so fast to do so I get to full speed before the end of the gore area. So screw merging over the white line, I merge over the gore area.

[Mr. Ambien]

If people knew how to drive and did so in a safe and courteous manner I can think of no reason to have solid white lines just about anywhere.

The HOV ones are to stop people from excessive weaving. This would not be a problem if everyone just drove with the flow, kept to the right if a bit slower, moved to the right if obstructing traffic, and the people driving greatly in excess of the 85th percentile speed were nailed by the cops, repeately, and harshly.

The ones at exit and entrance ramps would not be needed if people knew how to merge and deal with merging traffic at entrance or in the case of exits paid head to "exit ahead" indicators and merged off with the exit taper. I can think of a few spots I know of where I have or do drive a lot where I know that if there's a big gap right there that I can gun it to get in between the traffic and fit into the big empty spot. Because I accelerate so fast to do so I get to full speed before the end of the gore area. So screw merging over the white line, I merge over the gore area.

Excessive weaving? What?

HOV lanes are there to provide more distinct travel for people carpooling.

People like myself who go the speed limit in the HOV and sit on cruise are doing a service to speeders because we're not in the normal flow of traffic that they tend to weave through. We're not drivers they have to worry about getting around. The only people who get pissed off at this are those who think the HOV is a fast lane, and I couldn't give any less of a crud about catering to people with that mindset.

If we take Alberta Highway 2 south of Calgary, there's no HOV lanes, it's two or three lanes. If three lanes, and I see myself constantly passing people who are in the rightmost lane, I sit in cruise in the middle lane until I find myself not merging back and forth every minute. Once the space is there, I move over to the right, because it's courteous, and less of a danger to myself and others in the car with me. Common sense, courteous, and convenient.

[ronthecivil]

Excessive weaving? What?

HOV lanes are there to provide more distinct travel for people carpooling.

People like myself who go the speed limit in the HOV and sit on cruise are doing a service to speeders because we're not in the normal flow of traffic that they tend to weave through. We're not drivers they have to worry about getting around. The only people who get pissed off at this are those who think the HOV is a fast lane, and I couldn't give any less of a crud about catering to people with that mindset.

If we take Alberta Highway 2 south of Calgary, there's no HOV lanes, it's two or three lanes. If three lanes, and I see myself constantly passing people who are in the rightmost lane, I sit in cruise in the middle lane until I find myself not merging back and forth every minute. Once the space is there, I move over to the right, because it's courteous, and less of a danger to myself and others in the car with me. Common sense, courteous, and convenient.

More distinct travel? Praytell, what is that?

Now, that you don't give a crud about people that don't share your views of what is obviously the correct way to drive, well, that I totally get and expect.

Adding some signs and diamonds and an minimum car occupancy requirement to (typically) the left most lane as an incentive to encourage car pooling by allowing such vehicles to more quickly bypass congestion a sucsessful idea? Who would have known some signs and paint could create such pride that people would lock themselves there on cruise control and come to beleive they are providing a service!

[patrickd73]

Excessive weaving? What?

HOV lanes are there to provide more distinct travel for people carpooling.

People like myself who go the speed limit in the HOV and sit on cruise are doing a service to speeders because we're not in the normal flow of traffic that they tend to weave through. We're not drivers they have to worry about getting around. The only people who get pissed off at this are those who think the HOV is a fast lane, and I couldn't give any less of a crud about catering to people with that mindset.

If we take Alberta Highway 2 south of Calgary, there's no HOV lanes, it's two or three lanes. If three lanes, and I see myself constantly passing people who are in the rightmost lane, I sit in cruise in the middle lane until I find myself not merging back and forth every minute. Once the space is there, I move over to the right, because it's courteous, and less of a danger to myself and others in the car with me. Common sense, courteous, and convenient.

There are no HOV lanes anywhere on highway 2, just FYI.

[ronthecivil]

Excessive weaving? What?

HOV lanes are there to provide more distinct travel for people carpooling.

People like myself who go the speed limit in the HOV and sit on cruise are doing a service to speeders because we're not in the normal flow of traffic that they tend to weave through. We're not drivers they have to worry about getting around. The only people who get pissed off at this are those who think the HOV is a fast lane, and I couldn't give any less of a crud about catering to people with that mindset.

If we take Alberta Highway 2 south of Calgary, there's no HOV lanes, it's two or three lanes. If three lanes, and I see myself constantly passing people who are in the rightmost lane, I sit in cruise in the middle lane until I find myself not merging back and forth every minute. Once the space is there, I move over to the right, because it's courteous, and less of a danger to myself and others in the car with me. Common sense, courteous, and convenient.

The excessive weaving, since I didn't answer that, would be due to people being frustrated from having slow moving vehicles holding up traffic in all lanes. When in the HOV lane and they come upon a vehicle that is not keeping up with the flow and there's faster traffic to the right, they merge right to pass, and then left to get back into the HOV lane. The more of this conflicting manouevres you have the less effecient the roadway becomes.

[Mr. Ambien]

There are no HOV lanes anywhere on highway 2, just FYI.

I never said there was, just an FYI.

The excessive weaving, since I didn't answer that, would be due to people being frustrated from having slow moving vehicles holding up traffic in all lanes. When in the HOV lane and they come upon a vehicle that is not keeping up with the flow and there's faster traffic to the right, they merge right to pass, and then left to get back into the HOV lane. The more of this conflicting manouevres you have the less effecient the roadway becomes.

Hmm, yeah, you're right, but that's from one perspective. From the perspective of the person going the speed limit, aka Mr. Ambien the douchebag, it's safer for him to be in the HOV lane rather than repeatedly move right to the leftmost normal freeway traffic lane, then move back over left to the HOV lane (which would be an even bigger problem if, between areas traffic suddenly went bumper to bumper before being able to move back).. risking this every time someone going faster than the speed limit approaches. I've judged that sitting in the HOV lane right at the speed limit is safer for me, and thus safer for others, and if someone wishes to speed, they're going to speed and endanger others anyways regardless of what lane they're in, therefore not worth catering to and increasing the risk of accident myself by changing lanes. I think that's fair, that the person speeding bears the highest risk, themselves.