ronthecivil Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I never said there was, just an FYI. Hmm, yeah, you're right, but that's from one perspective. From the perspective of the person going the speed limit, aka Mr. Ambien the douchebag, it's safer for him to be in the HOV lane rather than repeatedly move right to the leftmost normal freeway traffic lane, then move back over left to the HOV lane (which would be an even bigger problem if, between areas traffic suddenly went bumper to bumper before being able to move back).. risking this every time someone going faster than the speed limit approaches. I've judged that sitting in the HOV lane right at the speed limit is safer for me, and thus safer for others, and if someone wishes to speed, they're going to speed and endanger others anyways regardless of what lane they're in, therefore not worth catering to and increasing the risk of accident myself by changing lanes. I think that's fair, that the person speeding bears the highest risk, themselves.The problem when you frame it as someone that adamantly sticks to the speed limit in the left lane even when everyone else is going faster vs. the people going much faster than everyone else and weaving in and out of traffic is that both are in the wrong and both reinforce each others negative behaviour.That you look at everyone that exceeds the limit as one uniform class of wreckless people when that is (scientifically) not the case shows that you are one that will be below the average speed of traffic if that average speed is above the speed limit AND you will do so, in cruise control, in the left lane.In heavy traffic, where even the HOV is busy, would it be reasonable for a guy on a motorbike to swerve in and out of lanes, jetting into spots, passing people like you in the HOV lane on the right, so long as he didn't exceed the limit?I hate to tell you that the limit is very much artificial and is no doubt more tied to politics and having standards that would be able to pass a court test than best practices of how to design, regulate, or operate a roadway. As it turns out, regardless of the what people are told, almost everyone drives at the speed at which they feel safe and confortable, regardless of what the signs on the road say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 The problem when you frame it as someone that adamantly sticks to the speed limit in the left lane even when everyone else is going faster vs. the people going much faster than everyone else and weaving in and out of traffic is that both are in the wrong and both reinforce each others negative behaviour. That you look at everyone that exceeds the limit as one uniform class of wreckless people when that is (scientifically) not the case shows that you are one that will be below the average speed of traffic if that average speed is above the speed limit AND you will do so, in cruise control, in the left lane. In heavy traffic, where even the HOV is busy, would it be reasonable for a guy on a motorbike to swerve in and out of lanes, jetting into spots, passing people like you in the HOV lane on the right, so long as he didn't exceed the limit? I hate to tell you that the limit is very much artificial and is no doubt more tied to politics and having standards that would be able to pass a court test than best practices of how to design, regulate, or operate a roadway. As it turns out, regardless of the what people are told, almost everyone drives at the speed at which they feel safe and confortable, regardless of what the signs on the road say. Now, I don't want confusion here.. you said left lane. I'm only saying HOV lane. Outside of HOV lanes (or where they don't exist), I stick to the right, such as the AB Highway 2 analogy earlier. I think it would prevent a lot of confusion about the HOV lane if they were perhaps completely separate from the freeway, akin to the 401 Collectors in Ontario vs. Express. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 If you're a poor or careful driver you should stick to the speed limit... and the right lane. If you're doing 55km/hr driving side by side with the old lady in the right lane on a 60km/hr road I am shoving my front bumper so far up your ass you can't afford to go any slower. In regards to actual limits, the flow of traffic is the limit. Which is usually 10-15 km/hr over. I don't listen to speed limits unless I'm taking an exit or in a residential area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 If people knew how to drive and did so in a safe and courteous manner I can think of no reason to have solid white lines just about anywhere.The HOV ones are to stop people from excessive weaving. This would not be a problem if everyone just drove with the flow, kept to the right if a bit slower, moved to the right if obstructing traffic, and the people driving greatly in excess of the 85th percentile speed were nailed by the cops, repeately, and harshly. The ones at exit and entrance ramps would not be needed if people knew how to merge and deal with merging traffic at entrance or in the case of exits paid head to "exit ahead" indicators and merged off with the exit taper. I can think of a few spots I know of where I have or do drive a lot where I know that if there's a big gap right there that I can gun it to get in between the traffic and fit into the big empty spot. Because I accelerate so fast to do so I get to full speed before the end of the gore area. So screw merging over the white line, I merge over the gore area. Oh, that's a factor in design for sure. People driving responsibly and with common sense would solve a lot of things as well. The gore area? Is that the point where the exit starts to separate from the road? I wouldn't go that far myself, as much as I find traffic that doesn't flow when it should frustrating I try and take a step back and get in line before an exit if I can. Now, I don't want confusion here.. you said left lane. I'm only saying HOV lane. Outside of HOV lanes (or where they don't exist), I stick to the right, such as the AB Highway 2 analogy earlier. I think it would prevent a lot of confusion about the HOV lane if they were perhaps completely separate from the freeway, akin to the 401 Collectors in Ontario vs. Express. Well, he said left lane in response to your "I stay in the HOV lane on cruise control" comment and then repeatedly references the HOV lane later so I think there's no worry about confusion on his part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Oh, that's a factor in design for sure. People driving responsibly and with common sense would solve a lot of things as well. The gore area? Is that the point where the exit starts to separate from the road? I wouldn't go that far myself, as much as I find traffic that doesn't flow when it should frustrating I try and take a step back and get in line before an exit if I can. Well, he said left lane in response to your "I stay in the HOV lane on cruise control" comment and then repeatedly references the HOV lane later so I think there's no worry about confusion on his part.Ya the gore area is where the traffic is officially seperated into two roads. Unless you miss your exit it should never be a problem exiting the highway. Just exit it at the start of the exit taper nice and smooth like.There's also one where the roads are almost together at an entrance, then there's typically a stretch of white line (the acceleration lane), and then a dotted portion (the entrance taper). The acceleration lane is designed to allow you to get up to speed and combined with the taper portion gives you the decision sight distance required to make a merge.However, if you are looking ahead while still on the curve and see a line of trucks that will be arriving at your taper when you get there, a big gap behind them, and a whack of vehicles behind that gap closing on the position. If you follow the "rules" you would not be able to accelerate enough, you end up pulling behind the trucks right at the entrance. The other vehicles by then have all merged right and you get passed by some of the pack. Of course, some people refuse to go over the limit while passing, and you end up stuck in the congestion.**** that!Seeing the situation, I put it into third as I go around the entrance ramp, and as it starts to straighten out gun it so I am doing 110 by the time I get to the gore area. I then use the gore as my taper to get first behind and then left of the trucks as I get on the road, hit fourth as I zip by them, and then settle into a nice confortable fifth as I get into the right lane.Traffic, even quite busy traffic, flows in convoys, or waves, or packs. You get the idea. My objective is the space myself between them as best I can.So once I am free of the pack, why just stay right?Some will escape the pack behind me. They can just pass me and catch up to the next pack.Occasionally someone that merged or what not begin to form mini convoys that clog up the middle. If you see one of those, you pass it, and they eventually end up getting caught by the pack behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 There's also one where the roads are almost together at an entrance, then there's typically a stretch of white line (the acceleration lane), and then a dotted portion (the entrance taper). The acceleration lane is designed to allow you to get up to speed and combined with the taper portion gives you the decision sight distance required to make a merge. Just about every damn day I get stuck behind some aresehole apparently out for a Sunday drive and merging on to the highway 20-40KPH slower than the highway traffic we're attempting to merge in to. Move your arse you @#$%-wad!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I know this thread has been inactive for some time, but I felt this related to discussion that ended up happening and didn't deserve a new thread: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/03/b-c-government-crack-slow-drivers-left-passing-lane/ The provincial government will introduce legislation this spring to penalize slow drivers in the left lane. Transportation Minister Todd Stone hopes to provide local law enforcement officers with more powers to crack down on drivers who drive slowly in the left lane, CKNW reports. Studies show that using the left lane for regular road movements instead of solely for passing can cause other vehicles to slow down, which in turn creates traffic congestion. This is particularly the case when there are equally slow drivers in both the the left and right lanes blocking traffic behind from passing through. Furthermore, slow driving on the passing lane increases the chance of accidents. When normal drivers become frustrated and decide to bypass the slow driver in the left lane, they slow down and weave in and out of lanes. The “keep right unless passing” rule is meant to allow fast drivers to pass several vehicles at a single time without having to slow down and change lanes. However, it is not widely understood and practiced by drivers. The proposed legislation is a response to recommendations made in the Ministry of Transportation’s recent Rural Highway Safety and Speed Review. The article also linked the study and the MoT's review: http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121220/srep01001/full/srep01001.html http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/07/speed-limits-increasing-120-kmh-select-b-c-highways/ “Safety on our highways is our number one priority, and is the foundation for every decision that has resulted from this review,” said Todd Stone, Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure. “The actions we’re taking were the subject of a thorough technical review by our engineers, and the ministry is committed to ongoing monitoring and evaluation of speed limits and other highway safety measures.” In addition to speed limit changes, the Ministry of Transportation will be further enforcing the rule of having slower vehicles keep right. New signage and pavement markings will also be made to increase voluntary compliance of ‘keep right’ requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like to think that this thread caused all this recent change chatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I know this thread has been inactive for some time, but I felt this related to discussion that ended up happening and didn't deserve a new thread: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/03/b-c-government-crack-slow-drivers-left-passing-lane/ The article also linked the study and the MoT's review: http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121220/srep01001/full/srep01001.html http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/07/speed-limits-increasing-120-kmh-select-b-c-highways/ Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The average driver is intelligent enough to determine what speed is safe (for drinving) on any particular road their on. If you see a road sign that says 120 on a dirt road will you go 120? No. Do you travel at 50 in a suburb on Halloween? No. I think the biggest factor is that cars are engineered so much better and handle so much better than they were 20+ years ago that driving at 110 now is similar to 80 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 also, for a good time, drive in California. Now that's an adventure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLuciano Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 My cars just too fast, don't even notice how fast I'm driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 A road at 40 can be safely driven at 60, 100 at 120 and so on. My friend's dad used to engineers roads for a living and he told me that speed limits that are posted are 20 km/h below what the road's speed should be, because they know everyone will speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyFox Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 If you're a poor or careful driver you should stick to the speed limit... and the right lane. If you're doing 55km/hr driving side by side with the old lady in the right lane on a 60km/hr road I am shoving my front bumper so far up your ass you can't afford to go any slower. In regards to actual limits, the flow of traffic is the limit. Which is usually 10-15 km/hr over. I don't listen to speed limits unless I'm taking an exit or in a residential area. This is when I start to slow down for impatient drivers lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 It 'feels' to slow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 This is when I start to slow down for impatient drivers lol With the updated laws posted today in this thread, this is also when you'll get a ticket http://forum.canucks.com/topic/363532-why-does-everyone-drive-above-the-posted-speed-limit/?p=12638410 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Phaneuf Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Nothing will change. People will still drive like turtles in the left lane (fast lane). Expect more tickets to be handed out to "speeders" instead of the "grandmas". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I know how you feel. Posted is 110 on the highways here, I go 110. Everyone else goes 120 or 130. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I know how you feel. Posted is 110 on the highways here, I go 110. Everyone else goes 120 or 130. You're good if you're in the correct lane. People not going with the flow of traffic in the fast lane will now be ticketed. Hopefully this applies to hov lanes as well. Otherwise hov lanes will eventually need a faster, passing lane as well. Just makes it confusing imho, unless the hov and regular lanes are segregated, like how you see in the US a lot. It's much easier if slow drivers would just stay in the slow lane, like how it was always intended. I don't see how the new laws should not apply to slow hov lane drivers with how the trans-canada is worked now, since they're just as liable to cause accidents as people driving slowly in the fast lane. If the purpose of the law it to reduce accidents, then these slow hov lane drivers should be ticketed as well imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 The speed limits here were posted when people were driving carts and horses...I believe it's time the 30/50 deal be looked at because I'm pretty sure I can run faster. I try to stay within the posted limits, but actually had ICBC tell me (during a challenge) that those are just "suggested" limits. I called BS, based on the word "maximum" but if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. It all needs to be reviewed....why is the limit in downtown Vancouver the same as say Steveston Highway? It doesn't make sense. I'm fine with highway speeds because idiots don't leave enough room at the higher rate of speed...I always keep within them (posted limits) based on defensive driving more than anything. People don't "leave themselves" an out and many accidents could be prevented if they did. So the higher the rate of speed, the more inclined I am to keep to the slower end of thing because others play with fire around me. Driving to work on 99 I've actually seen a (very stupid) woman, swerving and adjusting her speed up/down...as I approached to pass her, she moved over into the fast lane (too). I then noticed she had a cell in one hand and was eating a McMuffin in the other. AS she drove the highway. So yeah, I'd prefer she move the hell over as a hazard on wheels and remind people to keep the left lane clear for passing, not for "cruising/eating/sleeping". Distracted driving remains a HUGE issue as far as I'm concerned and nothing ticks me off more than a driver who's failing driving due to doing other "stuff". Make up your mind...if you're too "busy" to pay attention/drive properly then pull over, do what you have to do and let the rest of us get past. (Driving here makes my inner Intimidator come out, as I strategically change lanes and position myself to get the hell away from the pack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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