Why does everyone drive above the posted speed limit?

[elvis15]

Go around.

If they're creating significant backup on the HOV lane going under the speed limit, which, without good reason (the only grey area in this scenario), isn't allowed anywhere on the freeway (even the lanes to the far right), they're at risk for getting ticketed.

It's really not that tough, it would only be that way for people who think they own the freeway.

That alone is more proof you don't know what you're talking about. The speed limit is a maximum, but it's not required that everyone drive exactly at that speed to be legal - especially the lanes to the far right. There are even signs on highways that specify that vehicles incapable of a lower, minimum speed aren't permitted on those roads.

So those are all special lanes technically, since they all have a restriction of some sort, and I guess since it's not explicitly specified anywhere then they'd also be exempt from the slower traffic keep right law (and any other law since that's the argument basically you're making).

But vehicles that are capable of the minimum speed and are driving in the far right lane are driving legally and wouldn't be a risk to be ticketed. If people are behind them backing up, then that's the fault of the people behind, not the person in front, since they should pass using the lanes on the left. If the person is creating a backup in any of the lanes to the left of the right-most lane, including the HOV lane, then they'd be at risk for being ticketed regardless of how fast they were going in relation to the speed limit.

[Mr. Ambien]

You weren't kidding about people with terrible reading skills, Heretic.

[inane]

You and whomever gave you a plus need to go back and read what I said.

In case that's too hard for you, I'll say it again here and make it easier to read:

"I don't drive slower than the other lanes neither."

Then what the hell is your argument about? Sounds like you really are just trolling.

[Common sense]

This could all be avoided if we all got jetpacks.

[Heretic]

Then what the hell is your argument about? Sounds like you really are just trolling.

Way to bring the level down to that of some others in this thread.

That it's a HOV lane, not a passing lane.

Which is how it is treated in other places.

Yes, I agree, that according to the way the law is written in BC, it technically falls under the "keep right except to pass".

My issue is, that's wrong. That we should be inline with other places (like Washington).

Laws can change and/or amendments are made.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the BC MOT.

[The Bookie]

What are some of the advantages to having a dedicated HOV lane superseding the regular rules of the road?

(honest question, not trying to advance one side or other of the debate)

Like, I can see it during high traffic periods, which is why I think the on/off solution is the best, ideally curated in real time by traffic planners as opposed to static hours. I'm trying to think what the advantage is to having a lane at all times above other laws of the road, so long as the car contains multiple people. Environmental is all I can think of.

[ronthecivil]

So as long as someone on the highway is going slower than you, you can stay left, right?

No, so long as you are passing people on the right, you can stay left.

Even then like the scenario of the two trucks passing each other up a hill over a five minute period with a mile of traffic backing up behind them, if you are obstructing traffic behind you, even though you are passing, you could, (but unfortunately this is not enforced nearly enough) get ticketed for obstructing traffic.

[ronthecivil]

What are some of the advantages to having a dedicated HOV lane superseding the regular rules of the road?

(honest question, not trying to advance one side or other of the debate)

Like, I can see it during high traffic periods, which is why I think the on/off solution is the best, ideally curated in real time by traffic planners as opposed to static hours. I'm trying to think what the advantage is to having a lane at all times above other laws of the road, so long as the car contains multiple people. Environmental is all I can think of.

It's not just enviremental, it's economic. If you get more people per vehicle, you can get more people per hour down the same stretch of road. You get more users for the same stretch of road, it's an effeciency argument.

Now if you are wondering about why you should or should not have special rules for the HOV lane......

As a general rule and best practice, you want the rules of the road to be consistant. The more you increase the driver worlkload trying to figure out what to do the less time they have to focus on being a safe and courteous driver.

As an example, look at the giant clusterfuck even trying to save a little money and clean the air up a bit by rewarding HOVs quickly turns into some sort of entitlement VIP lane where people suddenly forget the other rules of the road.

It should be noted that having speed limits that do not reflect what the overwhelming majority of people are actually travelling at also results in the same effect, where people are confused as to whether they should ever be in the left lane (with everyone in the right lane speeding too) at all......

Le sigh.......

[inane]

Way to bring the level down to that of some others in this thread.

That it's a HOV lane, not a passing lane.

Which is how it is treated in other places.

Yes, I agree, that according to the way the law is written in BC, it technically falls under the "keep right except to pass".

My issue is, that's wrong. That we should be inline with other places (like Washington).

Laws can change and/or amendments are made.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the BC MOT.

You agree with everyone here but still argue?

What does it matter what other jurisdictions do? We have plenty of laws that don't exist elsewhere and vice versa so....so what?

[elvis15]

Then what the hell is your argument about? Sounds like you really are just trolling.

That depends on which page you asked him. He's changed his 'point' around after he gets information he can't or won't respond to. It started with him saying the HOV lane is safer and that's why to use it as well as there is no legal reason for someone using the HOV lane to yield to faster traffic. And now his argument for that even has changed and he agrees slower traffic should keep right, but now his argument is that that's wrong and should be changed.

Now he's saying his argument is about the HOV lane not being a passing lane. The HOV lane is not a fast lane specifically, but anyone using the HOV lane will be passing people as traffic will be slower due to congestion during the day in the right lanes. As we've shown here by seeing the misconceptions people have about driving, some people will use the HOV lane incorrectly (i.e. tailgating people ahead of them, changing lanes over a solid line, etc.) but that's no reason to do so yourself.

Way to bring the level down to that of some others in this thread.

That it's a HOV lane, not a passing lane.

Which is how it is treated in other places.

Yes, I agree, that according to the way the law is written in BC, it technically falls under the "keep right except to pass".

My issue is, that's wrong. That we should be inline with other places (like Washington).

Laws can change and/or amendments are made.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the BC MOT.

Amazing. You can say it's wrong all you want, after all we've been saying you were since the beginning of the thread and you came around. Maybe they'll change it if you're loud enough, long enough.

What are some of the advantages to having a dedicated HOV lane superseding the regular rules of the road?

(honest question, not trying to advance one side or other of the debate)

Like, I can see it during high traffic periods, which is why I think the on/off solution is the best, ideally curated in real time by traffic planners as opposed to static hours. I'm trying to think what the advantage is to having a lane at all times above other laws of the road, so long as the car contains multiple people. Environmental is all I can think of.

Even in higher traffic periods I can't see a reason why the other laws of driving (i.e. slower traffic keep right) wouldn't apply. Even during higher traffic periods there will be times when traffic moves just fine and any drivers still in the HOV lane with people behind them should move to the right when it's safe a legal to do so.

[Heretic]

That depends on which page you asked him. He's changed his 'point' around after he gets information he can't or won't respond to. It started with him saying the HOV lane is safer and that's why to use it as well as there is no legal reason for someone using the HOV lane to yield to faster traffic. And now his argument for that even has changed and he agrees slower traffic should keep right, but now his argument is that that's wrong and should be changed.

Now he's saying his argument is about the HOV lane not being a passing lane. The HOV lane is not a fast lane specifically, but anyone using the HOV lane will be passing people as traffic will be slower due to congestion during the day in the right lanes. As we've shown here by seeing the misconceptions people have about driving, some people will use the HOV lane incorrectly (i.e. tailgating people ahead of them, changing lanes over a solid line, etc.) but that's no reason to do so yourself.

Amazing. You can say it's wrong all you want, after all we've been saying you were since the beginning of the thread and you came around. Maybe they'll change it if you're loud enough, long enough.

Even in higher traffic periods I can't see a reason why the other laws of driving (i.e. slower traffic keep right) wouldn't apply. Even during higher traffic periods there will be times when traffic moves just fine and any drivers still in the HOV lane with people behind them should move to the right when it's safe a legal to do so.

Unlike some, I do come around.

And no, you haven't been saying the same thing since the beginning.

[Heretic]

You agree with everyone here but still argue?

What does it matter what other jurisdictions do? We have plenty of laws that don't exist elsewhere and vice versa so....so what?

Didn't say I agree with everyone here at all.

What does it matter? Matters a lot. Symmetry and familiarity for all.

[inane]

Didn't say I agree with everyone here at all.

What does it matter? Matters a lot. Symmetry and familiarity for all.

Symmetry? wtf are you talking about? Does that line of reasoning apply to all laws from all countries or...?

[aGENT]

Yes, I agree, that according to the way the law is written in BC, it technically falls under the "keep right except to pass".

My issue is, that's wrong. That we should be inline with other places (like Washington).

Laws can change and/or amendments are made.

Hallelujah!!

As for it being 'wrong'...who say's? You? Why shouldn't Washington be inline with us?

Hell, you've got a civil engineer whose career is helping decide these things who say's we're already doing what's considered 'best practices' (even if it's highly under-enforced). I'll take his FAR more informed opinion (not to mention my own common sense) over yours, thanks.

Hopefully we can stop making Ambien/Heretic 'look SMRT" now

[Heretic]

Hallelujah!!

As for it being 'wrong'...who say's? You? Why shouldn't Washington be inline with us?

Hell, you've got a civil engineer whose career is helping decide these things who say's we're already doing what's considered 'best practices' (even if it's highly under-enforced). I'll take his FAR more informed opinion (not to mention my own common sense) over yours, thanks.

Hopefully we can stop making Ambien/Heretic 'look SMRT" now

Actually, Ron hasn't told us how he feels it should be - only how it is according to the laws in BC.

Like your insipid remark earlier in this thread, should we believe 1 or the masses? More places exempt HOV from "keep right".

That's why we should be more inline with the world and not them with us.

[aGENT]

Actually, Ron hasn't told us how he feels it should be - only how it is according to the laws in BC.

Like your insipid remark earlier in this thread, should we believe 1 or the masses? More places exempt HOV from "keep right".

That's why we should be more inline with the world and not them with us.

Pretty sure Ron has said that's what he feels is best practices and would give it as his expert opinion if requested.

What insipid remark? If you still remember it, clearly it wasn't, whatever you think it was.

[ronthecivil]

Actually, Ron hasn't told us how he feels it should be - only how it is according to the laws in BC.

Like your insipid remark earlier in this thread, should we believe 1 or the masses? More places exempt HOV from "keep right".

That's why we should be more inline with the world and not them with us.

Step one: Actually follow the engineering report the goverment already has regarding speed limits. You know, my radical idea of letting the people who design the roads determine the speed limit?

Step two: Actually enforce all traffic laws, including speeding, including obstructing traffic, including the rule to keep right except to pass.

As mentioned, I would just as soon have variable speed limits depending on volumes. When there are periods of high congestion I might have a slightly higher limit in the HOV lane as it would be emptier. In high congestion would be nice to be able to tweak the lanes as mentioned. If we had a much more sophisticated system like that, during high congestion, the goal would be to have all traffic moving in one large formation with little to no lane changing for long periods of time. In that situation there would be slim to no passing and as such in those cases of a dynamic roadway would the rules have to change.

But with the systems we already have? Nope, I like the rules they way they are. Except of course the irrational, unscientific, speed limits. (And yes, in some cases, they are also too high).

[Heretic]

Step one: Actually follow the engineering report the goverment already has regarding speed limits. You know, my radical idea of letting the people who design the roads determine the speed limit?

Step two: Actually enforce all traffic laws, including speeding, including obstructing traffic, including the rule to keep right except to pass.

As mentioned, I would just as soon have variable speed limits depending on volumes. When there are periods of high congestion I might have a slightly higher limit in the HOV lane as it would be emptier. In high congestion would be nice to be able to tweak the lanes as mentioned. If we had a much more sophisticated system like that, during high congestion, the goal would be to have all traffic moving in one large formation with little to no lane changing for long periods of time. In that situation there would be slim to no passing and as such in those cases of a dynamic roadway would the rules have to change.

But with the systems we already have? Nope, I like the rules they way they are. Except of course the irrational, unscientific, speed limits. (And yes, in some cases, they are also too high).

Thank you for being concise and informative and not being a jerk.

Myself, I would rather have no HOV lanes at all, just lanes for all traffic.

[elvis15]

Unlike some, I do come around.

And no, you haven't been saying the same thing since the beginning.

You've been wrong already in this thread, one more time won't hurt. I've stood by my original comment from the start that the HOV lane is still held to the slower traffic keep right law and people shouldn't stay in it just because it's the safest (which I've also called into question since the start). I've discussed other related issues as well, but that original point is exactly what I've been saying since the beginning.

I've already re-quoted the original point using both your and my posts a few times, but since you've actually agreed my point (and others' of course) is correct I think I'll leave it at that.

Step one: Actually follow the engineering report the goverment already has regarding speed limits. You know, my radical idea of letting the people who design the roads determine the speed limit?

Step two: Actually enforce all traffic laws, including speeding, including obstructing traffic, including the rule to keep right except to pass.

As mentioned, I would just as soon have variable speed limits depending on volumes. When there are periods of high congestion I might have a slightly higher limit in the HOV lane as it would be emptier. In high congestion would be nice to be able to tweak the lanes as mentioned. If we had a much more sophisticated system like that, during high congestion, the goal would be to have all traffic moving in one large formation with little to no lane changing for long periods of time. In that situation there would be slim to no passing and as such in those cases of a dynamic roadway would the rules have to change.

But with the systems we already have? Nope, I like the rules they way they are. Except of course the irrational, unscientific, speed limits. (And yes, in some cases, they are also too high).

Step one already mentioned? Check. Step two already mentioned? Check check. Variable speed limits? Check check check. The rules the way they are? Check check check check. All four of those have been mentioned at least once in this thread, but after my point above I'm not surprised he'd forget the points you've made as well.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

lol this is still going on, HOV lanes have specific time restrictions for when you can us them, during the posted times which is mon-fri and I believe 5am-7pm something like that, the HOV lane is separate lane from the other lanes on the highway. Outside of the posted times anyone can drive in the HOV lane, and that's when the HOV lane is treated the same as all the other lanes, hence the stay right to pass rule will then be then in effect. The reason why it's so hard to find out this information in BC is because the HOV lane has restrictions, so it's not an HOV lane 24/7 like many other places where the rules are straight forward because there is no restrictions in their HOV lanes.

Sum it up, the stay right unless to pass rule is only in effect in the HOV when your driving before or after the posted times, and weekends.

ANYONE can drive in the HOV lane on weekends, in case nobody knew that.