Plum Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=729391 Horvat - 23 Virtanen - 24 Jaskin above them, Domi below them. Virtanen (6th Overall) finishes ahead of Dal Colle (5th overall) on this list. Shinkaruk didn't make the list or the list of other players receiving votes. 1. Drouin 2. Gibson 3. Kuznetsov 4. Reinhart 5. Teravainen 6. Ekblad 7. Vasilevskiy 8. Bennett 9. Draisaitl 10. Mantha Lazar is at #16, I think Horvat should be very close to him which he isn't. Disagree with that, Horvat should be ahead of Jaskin, Ehlers. Morrissey should be around #12-13, Forsberg, Burakovsky should be around #20 IMO. Hadyn Fleury should be jumping to lower 19s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm glad to see that they're not underrating Zadorov around the league. I still can't believe how little it took for Nashville to acquire Jarnkrok. Nashville seems to have the ability to acquire top prospects at the trade deadline like no other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Algur Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Interesting to see how it compares with CDC's list here:http://forum.canucks.com/topic/363510-top-30-nhl-prospects-25/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Nice to see Bo and Virtanen back to back. Horvat should be a bit higher imo. Virtanen will crack top 15 list next year. Who knows, maybe in a few years Demko is on that list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herberts Vasiljevs Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Wanna make a true NHL hockey fan mad? Tell him/her that Kerby Rychel wasn't even given a single nomination on this list. Same goes for Damon Severson. Unbelievable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Lazar really pulled his stock up during the WJC tournament and this year's WHL playoffs/Memorial Cup campaign. Can't complain that he's ranked there while Bo is #23. Ehlers definitely too far up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Algur Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Surprised how few votes Petan got, nice to see Gaunce got a few votes even if Hunter didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Interesting to see how it compares with CDC's list here:http://forum.canucks.com/topic/363510-top-30-nhl-prospects-25/ I'd say CDC's is probably the better list so far. I'm not surprised though, the nhl.com writers have been making horrible lists lately IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Lazar really pulled his stock up during the WJC tournament and this year's WHL playoffs/Memorial Cup campaign. Can't complain that he's ranked there while Bo is #23. Ehlers definitely too far up. Lazar was given a better opportunity at the WJCs than Horvat. They're players who play the same type of game, similar stats in the WHL. Lazar has the edge but he doesn't have a 7 spot difference. It's 2 spots maximum, both are two-way players, Lazar is more offensive and more explosive but Horvat is the smarter player and better defensively. The WJCs, Memorial Cup give Lazar a 2-3 spot edge max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dasein Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Lazar was given a better opportunity at the WJCs than Horvat. They're players who play the same type of game, similar stats in the WHL. Lazar has the edge but he doesn't have a 7 spot difference. It's 2 spots maximum, both are two-way players, Lazar is more offensive and more explosive but Horvat is the smarter player and better defensively. The WJCs, Memorial Cup give Lazar a 2-3 spot edge max. This is not a post disagreeing with you. It's just a post of my assessment of the two players. Earned* not given. Lazar's skillset was better suited for a more offensive role than Horvat. I don't think it's a 7 spot difference either (#16 - #23), but the actual draft spot difference shouldn't have been 8 spots either (#9 - #17). And they really don't play the same type of game at all IMO - the differences are greater than the similarity, which people seem to focus on when they compare the two: Similarities: Same position (center), similar physical frame, solid two-way game, regular season production, steps it up in the playoffs, good leadership qualities Differences: Lazar is a shoot-first center. Lazar is a great skater with fast acceleration and top speed. Lazar uses his speed and frame to hit hard on forechecks. He doesn't really hold on to pucks but positions himself to shoot when he get it. Horvat is more of a playmaking center. Horvat is a decent skater but he won't beat players with his speed. Horvat uses his frame more to protect the puck because he holds onto it while his teammates get in better positions to shoot. Conclusion: Horvat is more of a possession player while Lazar looks to unload the puck when he gets it. Lazar's main attributes are his speed, shot and physicality which allows him to play a more north-south fast-paced game. Horvat's main attributes are his strength, faceoffs and hockey IQ which allows him to slow the game down and keep possession for his team. That's why I think these two are not really comparable - because they play a different style. Lazar is more Mike Richards (in his Philadelphia days) and Horvat is more Patrice Bergeron if you want to make an NHL comparison. IMO, Lazar's game should translate to the NHL faster because of his skating and shot - hence his ranking above Bo at this point. Horvat's game takes a little more time to develop. I think Lazar will have a higher peak, but Bo will have a longer sustained prime since Lazar relies on his physical attributes (speed) while Bo plays a more cerebral game. Sidenote: I would love to have Lazar on Bo's wing because they compliment each other so well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkstar Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'd say CDC's is probably the better list so far. I'm not surprised though, the nhl.com writers have been making horrible lists lately IMO. The Canucks prospects are way too high in that list. NHL.com's is better, but obviously not perfect as well. Dal Colle and Gaudreau being behind Virtanen is ridiculous though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Lord Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I don't get how higher drafted players are lower on the list than players drafted below them in 2014. It's not like any of the players have done anything to improve or regress since being drafted. The players drafted in 2014 should go in order on this list, if you get what I mean. The list: 4. Reinhart (2nd overall) 6. Ekblad (1st overall) 8. Bennett (4th) 9. Draisaitl (3rd) 15. Nylander (8th) 19. Ehlers (9th) 24. Virtanen (6th) 28. Dal Colle (5th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 This is not a post disagreeing with you. It's just a post of my assessment of the two players. Earned* not given. Lazar's skillset was better suited for a more offensive role than Horvat. I don't think it's a 7 spot difference either (#16 - #23), but the actual draft spot difference shouldn't have been 8 spots either (#9 - #17). And they really don't play the same type of game at all IMO - the differences are greater than the similarity, which people seem to focus on when they compare the two: Similarities: Same position (center), similar physical frame, solid two-way game, regular season production, steps it up in the playoffs, good leadership qualities Differences: Lazar is a shoot-first center. Lazar is a great skater with fast acceleration and top speed. Lazar uses his speed and frame to hit hard on forechecks. He doesn't really hold on to pucks but positions himself to shoot when he get it. Horvat is more of a playmaking center. Horvat is a decent skater but he won't beat players with his speed. Horvat uses his frame more to protect the puck because he holds onto it while his teammates get in better positions to shoot. Conclusion: Horvat is more of a possession player while Lazar looks to unload the puck when he gets it. Lazar's main attributes are his speed, shot and physicality which allows him to play a more north-south fast-paced game. Horvat's main attributes are his strength, faceoffs and hockey IQ which allows him to slow the game down and keep possession for his team. That's why I think these two are not really comparable - because they play a different style. Lazar is more Mike Richards (in his Philadelphia days) and Horvat is more Patrice Bergeron if you want to make an NHL comparison. IMO, Lazar's game should translate to the NHL faster because of his skating and shot - hence his ranking above Bo at this point. Horvat's game takes a little more time to develop. I think Lazar will have a higher peak, but Bo will have a longer sustained prime since Lazar relies on his physical attributes (speed) while Bo plays a more cerebral game. Sidenote: I would love to have Lazar on Bo's wing because they compliment each other so well Your assessment is correct of these two players. Another similarity between these players are that they are puck hounders, Lazar crashes and bangs when he chases pucks but Horvat doesn't hit as much, he'll use his stick and size to cut off players from the puck but Lazar is more direct. I also think the comparisons you have are opposite, Bergeron is faster than Mike Richards, he's not as physical so not my favourite comparison but Bergeron is the more efficient player compared to Richards and that's how Lazar and Horvat are. I like a Jeff Carter comparison with Lazar, both are very fast, have great shots and also hit quite a bit. Lazar plays the PK, PP just like Carter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langdon Algur Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Lazar was given a better opportunity at the WJCs than Horvat. They're players who play the same type of game, similar stats in the WHL. Lazar has the edge but he doesn't have a 7 spot difference. It's 2 spots maximum, both are two-way players, Lazar is more offensive and more explosive but Horvat is the smarter player and better defensively. The WJCs, Memorial Cup give Lazar a 2-3 spot edge max. This is not a post disagreeing with you. It's just a post of my assessment of the two players. Earned* not given. Lazar's skillset was better suited for a more offensive role than Horvat. I don't think it's a 7 spot difference either (#16 - #23), but the actual draft spot difference shouldn't have been 8 spots either (#9 - #17). And they really don't play the same type of game at all IMO - the differences are greater than the similarity, which people seem to focus on when they compare the two: Similarities: Same position (center), similar physical frame, solid two-way game, regular season production, steps it up in the playoffs, good leadership qualities Differences: Lazar is a shoot-first center. Lazar is a great skater with fast acceleration and top speed. Lazar uses his speed and frame to hit hard on forechecks. He doesn't really hold on to pucks but positions himself to shoot when he get it.Horvat is more of a playmaking center. Horvat is a decent skater but he won't beat players with his speed. Horvat uses his frame more to protect the puck because he holds onto it while his teammates get in better positions to shoot. Conclusion: Horvat is more of a possession player while Lazar looks to unload the puck when he gets it. Lazar's main attributes are his speed, shot and physicality which allows him to play a more north-south fast-paced game. Horvat's main attributes are his strength, faceoffs and hockey IQ which allows him to slow the game down and keep possession for his team. That's why I think these two are not really comparable - because they play a different style. Lazar is more Mike Richards (in his Philadelphia days) and Horvat is more Patrice Bergeron if you want to make an NHL comparison. IMO, Lazar's game should translate to the NHL faster because of his skating and shot - hence his ranking above Bo at this point. Horvat's game takes a little more time to develop. I think Lazar will have a higher peak, but Bo will have a longer sustained prime since Lazar relies on his physical attributes (speed) while Bo plays a more cerebral game. Sidenote: I would love to have Lazar on Bo's wing because they compliment each other so wellJust curious how you two and other view Scott Laughton. I always thought he played a similar game to Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 The Canucks prospects are way too high in that list. NHL.com's is better, but obviously not perfect as well. Dal Colle and Gaudreau being behind Virtanen is ridiculous though. Not really. Gaudreau is very skilled but we're talking prospects here not who's the best hockey player right now. Gaudreau is 21, Virtanen just turned 18 and it's hard to compare them because of their leagues but Virtanen is a sure NHLer. What role will he play is the question, Gaudreau is top 6 or bust, risky and I hate the size thing but it is a factor nonetheless if he can overcome it that's great but even overcoming the size factor will get him a top 6 player something Virtanen projects to be. Even if Gaudreau is ahead of Virtanen, it's not ridiculous to have him behind Virtanen on a prospect list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The Canucks prospects are way too high in that list. NHL.com's is better, but obviously not perfect as well. Dal Colle and Gaudreau being behind Virtanen is ridiculous though. That's to be expected though. Overall, I think CDC's list is better. I find myself disagreeing with more of NHL.com's choices than I do with CDC's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Just curious how you two and other view Scott Laughton. I always thought he played a similar game to Horvat. Horvat is a good one. Both work hard on both sides of the puck, play in every situation but Laughton is more physical, he likes to hit more but Laughton is also less skilled. He's definitely a smart player who always makes smart decisions but is offence isn't fully developed and it doesn't seem like he'll be able to get that part of his game to evolve into a future top 6 player. He has similar away from the puck skills like Lazar except for the fact that Laughton isn't a great skater which goes back to Horvat. Laughton is relentless on the puck, he works hard, digs pucks, hits. Offensively, he had a good season in the OHL, it was expected but in the pro games he got in his career he had 3 points in 11 games. He doesn't have the tools to become a top 6 player in the NHL and it's because of his offence. Laughton will be a 3rd line centre in my mind, a comparison would be Philadelphia's own Couturier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I don't get how higher drafted players are lower on the list than players drafted below them in 2014. It's not like any of the players have done anything to improve or regress since being drafted. The players drafted in 2014 should go in order on this list, if you get what I mean. The list: 4. Reinhart (2nd overall) 6. Ekblad (1st overall) 8. Bennett (4th) 9. Draisaitl (3rd) 15. Nylander (8th) 19. Ehlers (9th) 24. Virtanen (6th) 28. Dal Colle (5th) NHL.com probably had Dal Colle as the 5th best prospect going into the draft, so it makes no sense for him to drop to the 9th best prospect of the '14 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Their write-up on Bo Horvat: "A high-scoring center who helped London reach its third straight Memorial Cup last season" Kind of an easy task when you're the host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted September 10, 2014 Author Share Posted September 10, 2014 Their write-up on Bo Horvat: "A high-scoring center who helped London reach its third straight Memorial Cup last season" Kind of an easy task when you're the host. They also called Nurse a 4th overall pick. They suck, do they even watch hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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