Arkansas Gun Range Declared "Muslim-Free Zone"

[Mr. Ambien]

Right. Things are getting much better....

For instance, it's been almost two years since some clown has walked into an elementary school and murdered a bunch of children.

Absolutely nothing to be concerned about, except of course, for "irrational" thinkers....

When you're so preoccupied with the margins of crime itself it's no surprise you miss the most obvious things and think irrationally.

Except that banning a person based on their religion is illegal.

It's quite simple.

There's no legal justification.

Safety is a justification.. especially if the business can show a hardship caused by these people. Would make no sense for a group of religious people to simply chase away customers and a business be forced to do nothing about it.

[RUPERTKBD]

When you're so preoccupied with the margins of crime itself it's no surprise you miss the most obvious things and think irrationally.

Safety is a justification.. especially if the business can show a hardship caused by these people. Would make no sense for a group of religious people to simply chase away customers and a business be forced to do nothing about it.

Yes, I'm I'm missing the obvious.... meanwhile, the people who think more guns equals a safer society are the "rational" thinkers.

What color is the sky on your planet?

[theminister]

When you're so preoccupied with the margins of crime itself it's no surprise you miss the most obvious things and think irrationally.

Safety is a justification.. especially if the business can show a hardship caused by these people. Would make no sense for a group of religious people to simply chase away customers and a business be forced to do nothing about it.

Justification does not equal legal. Sorry.

Showing a hardship is not legal grounds to ban a religious group.

Any argument you make will not change that fact. If you could find ONE recent example where that was upheld by the SCOTUS then you may have something. But you won't.

What's next? Keeping Jews out of fraternities?!? Sorry chum....it ain't happening.

[FramingDragon]

This thread just hurts

[Mr. Ambien]

Yes, I'm I'm missing the obvious.... meanwhile, the people who think more guns equals a safer society are the "rational" thinkers.

What color is the sky on your planet?

More guns = safer for the people who get to defend themselves.

I don't see you volunteering to live in an American city without guns, you're comfortably preaching from Smalltown BC.

You've confused planet Earth for planet Hysteria. Just because you're so malleable to the media and these non-existent wild west scenarios doesn't mean everyone else must be.

Justification does not equal legal. Sorry.

Showing a hardship is not legal grounds to ban a religious group.
Any argument you make will not change that fact. If you could find ONE recent example where that was upheld by the SCOTUS then you may have something. But you won't.

What's next? Keeping Jews out of fraternities?!? Sorry chum....it ain't happening.

There kind of has to be a case before SCOTUS to show anything, but your imaginative wishing for cases that don't exist is cute, if incredibly inane. There are always exceptions to the rule (i.e.: women's only taxi services that discriminates against men), such as having to provide disability access due to hardship it would cause upon a business. Another exception to the rule is obviously being forced to provide services to people that are deemed to ruin the safe operation of a business, especially when such causes an undue hardship upon a business.

There's grey area that would benefit you to learn about.

[theminister]

This thread just hurts

The whole thing is pretty frickin' stupid.

[theminister]

More guns = safer for the people who get to defend themselves.

I don't see you volunteering to live in an American city without guns, you're comfortably preaching from Smalltown BC.

You've confused planet Earth for planet Hysteria. Just because you're so malleable to the media and these non-existent wild west scenarios doesn't mean everyone else must be.

There kind of has to be a case before SCOTUS to show anything, but your imaginative wishing for cases that don't exist is cute, if incredibly inane. There are always exceptions to the rule (i.e.: women's only taxi services that discriminates against men), such as having to provide disability access due to hardship it would cause upon a business. Another exception to the rule is obviously being forced to provide services to people that are deemed to ruin the safe operation of a business, especially when such causes an undue hardship upon a business.

There's grey area that would benefit you to learn about.

Ummmmm.....no. There isn't. It's black and white.

It's illegal to bar a person from a place of business based in their religion in the US.

If you're so adamant there is an exception then show one. Just one.

[Newsflash]

Islamic society has never had the level of cultural revolution Christian society has had.

Nobody is going to reply to this?

ffs

We need more history majors to point out bad history. I have limited knowledge on the subject, but I'm pretty sure Islamic society had some strong cultural revolutions in the Middle Ages, and put some coexisting Christian countries to shame.

[Mr. Ambien]

Ummmmm.....no. There isn't. It's black and white.

It's illegal to bar a person from a place of business based in their religion in the US.

If you're so adamant there is an exception then show one. Just one.

Here is her moral basis:

To understand why I am concerned about islamists, you must first take in to consideration the nature of my business.

This is not a coffee and donut shop. This is a live fire indoor shooting range. People come here to buy, rent, and shoot lethal weapons.

In the range, people are shooting guns in close proximity to each other, so my patrons depend on me and my discretion regarding who I allow to shoot beside them.

One mistake in judgement on my part could cost innocent people their lives.

Here is her legal basis:

http://janmorganmedia.com/2014/09/business-muslim-free-zone/

6) I have a federal firearms licence… The ATF informed us when we received the license that if we feel any reason for concern about selling someone a firearm, even sense that something is not right about an individual, or if we are concerned about that persons mental state, even if they pass a background check, we do not have to sell that person a gun. Two different ATF agents stressed that it is better to err on the side of caution.

In other words, a federal agency has given FFL’s discretion on firearms deals. An FFL can turn people away if there is any concern about their behavior and or plans for use of the firearm in the commission of a crime.

I don't see the federal government coming after her any time soon.

[inane]

Gun violence is clearly defined by the intended use of a gun.

However.. in Canada we risk being murdered too, especially if not careful where we go at certain times. The difference is the response.

I bet you anything if you place the US violent crime rate here you'll find more Canadians seeking arms to protect themselves.

The most moronic thing Canadians do in US gun debates.. As often the case here.. is presume Americans don't need guns when they cite the comfort of their own little town. Goes to show we have plenty of ignorant people here too.

I disagree with that as you're consciously ignoring all the 'accidental' gun deaths and injuries that are typically far more tragic than the intentional murders.

BTW, I have dual citizenship and have lived in the US so try not make ignorant assumptions.

[theminister]

Nobody is going to reply to this?

ffs

We need more history majors to point out bad history. I have limited knowledge on the subject, but I'm pretty sure Islamic society had some strong cultural revolutions in the Middle Ages, and put some coexisting Christian countries to shame.

I skipped over it because it was so ridiculous that I thought it stood in its own.

[theminister]

Here is her moral basis:

Here is her legal basis:

http://janmorganmedia.com/2014/09/business-muslim-free-zone/

I don't see the federal government coming after her any time soon.

Her moral argument is irrelevant.

Her legal argument would not stand up in court by a long shot.

Big difference between barring individuals based on behaviour than groups based on broad generalizations. The ADL has taken this to court numerous times and won every case. It's not the Federal government that will come after them it's a Muslim rights group, if they care too....and they'll win.

Still not able to show an example where this is legally upheld in the US? I didn't think so.

[Chalky]

Nobody is going to reply to this?

ffs

We need more history majors to point out bad history. I have limited knowledge on the subject, but I'm pretty sure Islamic society had some strong cultural revolutions in the Middle Ages, and put some coexisting Christian countries to shame.

You just did. Boy you showed me and my bad history who's Boss.

Go re-read what I wrote there History Major. I said the LEVEL of cultural revolution, and they haven't. It wasn't a knock on Islamic culture, it's an observation. FFS!!!!!

Islamic society, pre-Muhammad, also had some pretty serious scientific breakthroughs that have helped shape scientific theory and brought us to where we are today....we, as a species, not a religion. "Islamic" culture, from the Dark Ages, to the Middle Ages to today have not been able to separate their leaders from their religion in the same capacity as "Christian" culture....FACT!

[Chalky]

I skipped over it because it was so ridiculous that I thought it stood in its own.

You must one of those History Majors.

[Mr. Ambien]

I disagree with that as you're consciously ignoring all the 'accidental' gun deaths and injuries that are typically far more tragic than the intentional murders.

BTW, I have dual citizenship and have lived in the US so try not make ignorant assumptions.

I'm consciously "ignoring" accidents because "accidents" are not considered on violent crime statistics.

Her moral argument is irrelevant.

Her legal argument would not stand up in court by a long shot.
Big difference between barring individuals based on behaviour than groups based on broad generalizations. The ADL has taken this to court numerous times and won every case. It's not the Federal government that will come after them it's a Muslim rights group, if they care too....and they'll win.

Still not able to show an example where this is legally upheld in the US? I didn't think so.

Where's an example of a gun range being legally forced to allow Muslims that were banned on the premise given?

[inane]

I'm consciously "ignoring" accidents because "accidents" are not considered on violent crime statistics.

Where's an example of a gun range being legally forced to allow Muslims that were banned on the premise given?

Well I suppose when you ignore a huge part of an issue than the issue doesn't seem to be that bad. Pretty convenient and an easy to way to avoid addressing the issue.

[theminister]

You must one of those History Majors.

I'm not, no. Commerce, actually. Just someone with a good knowledge of historical fact.

It also helps that I used to live in Southern Spain, home to some of the greatest achievements in Islamic history based on their superior knowledge of math, astronomy, science and historical literature.

One only has to visit the Mezquita in Cordoba, where the cathedral sits dwarfed inside the mosque, or the Alhambra to know that the Muslim world was the pinnacle of civilization at the time. That's without reading a book. But I recommend reading one if you're confused.

[Mr. Ambien]

Well I suppose when you ignore a huge part of an issue than the issue doesn't seem to be that bad. Pretty convenient and an easy to way to avoid addressing the issue.

Well no, accidents does not modify the second amendment, does not modify the intended use of a gun for self-defence.. the only use of accidents in your context is to make guns out to be more a threat than they really are. It's also a convenient distraction to the argument made that Americans have more freedoms than Canadians.

Americans are allowed more of an individual discretion to identify a threat and the use of lethal force, especially in their own home or neighbourhood. Here we don't have such freedoms. The only circumstance we can shoot someone is under strict conditions, but to even shoot someone in that context, we'd likely have to violate other strict conditions about storage.

I'm not, no. Commerce, actually. Just someone with a good knowledge of historical fact.

It also helps that I used to live in Southern Spain, home to some of the greatest achievements in Islamic history based on their superior knowledge of math, astronomy, science and historical literature.

One only has to visit the Mezquita in Cordoba, where the cathedral sits dwarfed inside the mosque, or the Alhambra to know that the Muslim world was the pinnacle of civilization at the time. That's without reading a book. But I recommend reading one if you're confused.

Big bold letters -- that was his point, which you conveniently glossed over in order to put on this superiority show.

At the time, which is not now. Now, they're the sewage of civilization.

[theminister]

Where's an example of a gun range being legally forced to allow Muslims that were banned on the premise given?

Way to deflect with a strawman argument.

There is nowhere in the US that it is legal to bar a people based on their religion. Fact.

Prove otherwise.

[theminister]

You just did. Boy you showed me and my bad history who's Boss.

Go re-read what I wrote there History Major. I said the LEVEL of cultural revolution, and they haven't. It wasn't a knock on Islamic culture, it's an observation. FFS!!!!!

Islamic society, pre-Muhammad, also had some pretty serious scientific breakthroughs that have helped shape scientific theory and brought us to where we are today....we, as a species, not a religion. "Islamic" culture, from the Dark Ages, to the Middle Ages to today have not been able to separate their leaders from their religion in the same capacity as "Christian" culture....FACT!

That's the best part!

Way to show us!