Amish Rake Fighter Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Alright, everybody who hasn't had their polio shot, raise your claw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tortorella Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lol this still going on yet no one answers why vaccinated children are at risk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Dear Anti-Vaxxers: Please don't have children. If you already have children, perhaps you should find them a loving home where they will actually be taken care of properly. If you refuse to vaccinate your kids, I recommend that you be part of a national registry so that I know who to sue when my child falls ill due to your criminal negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tortorella Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Still waiting. And waiting and waiting... How can your child get sick if vaccinated? Dear Anti-Vaxxers: Please don't have children. If you already have children, perhaps you should find them a loving home where they will actually be taken care of properly. If you refuse to vaccinate your kids, I recommend that you be part of a national registry so that I know who to sue when my child falls ill due to your criminal negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 When your grandparents were in school was peanuts an issue? No it wasn't. Either was most allergens and asthma. Why are they now? I have had chicken pox. It lasts a short period of time. The vaccine lasts 3 years while never being 100% effective. Then the older you get the more likely you are to get more harm done to you from chicken pox. When my grandparents were in school, they were too worried about Polio, Measles, Whooping Cough, Teatnus, and several other very deadly and cripling diseases. These diseases killed and maimed large portions of the population and have now been wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Still waiting. And waiting and waiting... How can your child get sick if vaccinated? Anyone can get sick vacinnated or not. You can either have zero immunity (unvaccinated) or 90-95% immunity (vaccinated). Pay special attention to the 90-95%. See that it is not 100% and why it's important that those around you are vaccinated as well. Note: the 90-95 is made up, I don't know the actual percentages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustapha Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Lol this still going on yet no one answers why vaccinated children are at risk Vaccinations are not 100% effective as a few children are resistant to the vaccine. As such, the disease can spread via unvaccinated kids to others. It's not a mystery that vaccinations have greatly reduced mortality rates here in North America, if you truly believe that life would be better without access to vaccines, perhaps you should relocate to a place like Mali where you could live in your disease infested 'paradise'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tortorella Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Your missing the point. Your immune system is built by proper nutrition, water, exercise, exposure. Moving to 3rd world country removes nutrition and water. How do you expect to have positive results? Modern medicine is more then vaccines. We now understand sterilization, incubation and have access to beable control situations. We understand nutrition, fats proteins and carbs. Back when polio was rampant there was no understanding of anything comparable. 1 vaccine for everyone regardless of blood type, predispositions, without doing blood tests, different white/red bloodcell count. Everyone is noticibly different yet 1 vaccine. Make sure everyone eats and enjoys the same food. Wears the same shoes Likes the same sports Live in the same country Everyone is different and reacts differently to anything. Vaccinations are not 100% effective as a few children are resistant to the vaccine. As such, the disease can spread via unvaccinated kids to others. It's not a mystery that vaccinations have greatly reduced mortality rates here in North America, if you truly believe that life would be better without access to vaccines, perhaps you should relocate to a place like Mali where you could live in your disease infested 'paradise'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Your missing the point. Your immune system is built by proper nutrition, water, exercise, exposure. Moving to 3rd world country removes nutrition and water. How do you expect to have positive results? Modern medicine is more then vaccines. We now understand sterilization, incubation and have access to beable control situations. We understand nutrition, fats proteins and carbs. Back when polio was rampant there was no understanding of anything comparable. 1 vaccine for everyone regardless of blood type, predispositions, without doing blood tests, different white/red bloodcell count. Everyone is noticibly different yet 1 vaccine. Make sure everyone eats and enjoys the same food. Wears the same shoes Likes the same sports Live in the same country Everyone is different and reacts differently to anything. You just tried to say that no once should care about unvaccinated people because vaccines are guaranteed to protect you from disease. But you're also saying they don't work at the same time. Even recently invented vaccines in modern times have drastically reduced disease rates. See: chicken pox. Start posting some facts and make some real arguments instead using twisted logic and misinterpreted studies. Also, the question of why vaccinated children are put at risk has been answered numerous times in this thread. But selective reading seems to be a core strategy of the anti-vax crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Anyone can get sick vacinnated or not. You can either have zero immunity (unvaccinated) or 90-95% immunity (vaccinated). Pay special attention to the 90-95%. See that it is not 100% and why it's important that those around you are vaccinated as well. Note: the 90-95 is made up, I don't know the actual percentages. All of your percentages are made up, not just the 90-95. People are different, which is one reason why not all vaccines are fully effective. Diet, rest, and stress levels make a difference regarding your body's ability to fight disease. Access to proper sanitation facilities are important too. If I recall correctly, exposure to various germs when you are younger help build up your immunity in general as well. I'm sure there are even other factors that can be listed. IMO, vaccinating against everything out there is irresponsible. For a disease that has a very low risk to contract, is it worth taking a chance with a vaccine that could give you a greater chance to either contract the disease itself or present liver/kidney issues in the future? If something is a real risk then vaccination is valid. In countries where there are significant risks, bring it on. But at this point, there hasn't been anything I felt I needed a vaccine for. Last year was a bad year for the measles in the US (compared to previous years) - less than 700 cases. 0.0002% of the population. Of that tiny percentage of the US population, 0.01 to 0.02% may die, and 0.01% may get encephalitis. Are you vaxxers over-reacting, perhaps? http://www.cdc.gov/measles/ Forcing people to vaccinate is even more irresponsible, especially if they have no recourse for compensation (from doctors, governments, etc.) if something goes wrong. There is significantly more risk to the community at large from uncontrolled borders with almost no inspection and quarantining of visitors, than there is with a small percentage of your own citizens choosing not to vaccinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 All of your percentages are made up, not just the 90-95. People are different, which is one reason why not all vaccines are fully effective. Diet, rest, and stress levels make a difference regarding your body's ability to fight disease. Access to proper sanitation facilities are important too. If I recall correctly, exposure to various germs when you are younger help build up your immunity in general as well. I'm sure there are even other factors that can be listed. IMO, vaccinating against everything out there is irresponsible. For a disease that has a very low risk to contract, is it worth taking a chance with a vaccine that could give you a greater chance to either contract the disease itself or present liver/kidney issues in the future? If something is a real risk then vaccination is valid. In countries where there are significant risks, bring it on. But at this point, there hasn't been anything I felt I needed a vaccine for. Last year was a bad year for the measles in the US (compared to previous years) - less than 700 cases. 0.0002% of the population. Of that tiny percentage of the US population, 0.01 to 0.02% may die, and 0.01% may get encephalitis. Are you vaxxers over-reacting, perhaps? http://www.cdc.gov/measles/ Forcing people to vaccinate is even more irresponsible, especially if they have no recourse for compensation (from doctors, governments, etc.) if something goes wrong. There is significantly more risk to the community at large from uncontrolled borders with almost no inspection and quarantining of visitors, than there is with a small percentage of your own citizens choosing not to vaccinate. Of course they are, it was about making a point. There were 3 to 4 million cases each year before vaccinations came around. Of course the risk is extremely low now, tons of people got vaccinated and essentially eradicated the disease before vaccination rates started to drop. Now measles is starting to crop up again. You don't have to, that's your right. Honestly, whether you get one or not has essentially no effect on the overall picture. It's the thinking process that is horrifying. One person doesn't get the vaccine -> no big deal. Small group of people don't get it -> ok, still not a big deal. This idea that vaccines aren't worth it -> lots of people don't get it, now we've got big problems and tons of health cares costs on our hands. It's the way it is now, unfortunately. People no longer grow up around disease the way they used to. People are no longer experiencing what our grandparents experienced and feel there's no need to vaccinate anymore. Heck, one guy is saying that some veggies and exercise is all that's required....yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Of course they are, it was about making a point. There were 3 to 4 million cases each year before vaccinations came around. Of course the risk is extremely low now, tons of people got vaccinated and essentially eradicated the disease before vaccination rates started to drop. Now measles is starting to crop up again. You don't have to, that's your right. Honestly, whether you get one or not has essentially no effect on the overall picture. It's the thinking process that is horrifying. One person doesn't get the vaccine -> no big deal. Small group of people don't get it -> ok, still not a big deal. This idea that vaccines aren't worth it -> lots of people don't get it, now we've got big problems and tons of health cares costs on our hands. It's the way it is now, unfortunately. People no longer grow up around disease the way they used to. People are no longer experiencing what our grandparents experienced and feel there's no need to vaccinate anymore. Heck, one guy is saying that some veggies and exercise is all that's required....yikes. Right, but I think the point many are making here and in the media is that I should not have the right to make that choice, and am a threat to everyone else if I don't get vaccinated. I'm not sure I agree with you that "we" (which I will interpret as Canada/US) have "big problems and tons of health care" costs due to lack of vaccinations. I would counter that it could be well argued by someone with more time than me that over-vaccination and over-use of antibiotics has a much greater impact on health care costs. How many get "free" shots that don't need it? How many people get flu-shots that either don't help or actually give them the flu? Maybe I would get a flu-shot when I'm retired and more at risk of dying from the flu, but there is no chance I would get one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Right, but I think the point many are making here and in the media is that I should not have the right to make that choice, and am a threat to everyone else if I don't get vaccinated. I'm not sure I agree with you that "we" (which I will interpret as Canada/US) have "big problems and tons of health care" costs due to lack of vaccinations. I would counter that it could be well argued by someone with more time than me that over-vaccination and over-use of antibiotics has a much greater impact on health care costs. How many get "free" shots that don't need it? How many people get flu-shots that either don't help or actually give them the flu? Maybe I would get a flu-shot when I'm retired and more at risk of dying from the flu, but there is no chance I would get one now. I'm pretty sure you can't get the flu from flu vaccines. The viruses are inactivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm pretty sure you can't get the flu from flu vaccines. The viruses are inactivated. I think it has happened before, but maybe it doesn't happen anymore due to your point. Perhaps now, the shot is for older strains, and doesn't protect them from newer strains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tortorella Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Lol okay champ. Chicken pox vacinne lasts "20" years. Then you are free to get it again or get adult version of chicken pox which is far more severe. I had chicken pox naturally for 3 days. I wont have it again. Enjoy your needles. quote name="etsen3" post="12605614" timestamp="1424369563"] You just tried to say that no once should care about unvaccinated people because vaccines are guaranteed to protect you from disease. But you're also saying they don't work at the same time. Even recently invented vaccines in modern times have drastically reduced disease rates. See: chicken pox. Start posting some facts and make some real arguments instead using twisted logic and misinterpreted studies. Also, the question of why vaccinated children are put at risk has been answered numerous times in this thread. But selective reading seems to be a core strategy of the anti-vax crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deetox Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 When kids are young, their immune systems aren't as strong. So yeah, vaccinate them when they're young. But as they get older, they don't need to get every vaccine in the book. My last shot was what? Grade 10? That's three years ago. I'm not planning on getting another one, and I'll trust my immune system to carry me on from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 In light of this new study published recently in the Journal of the American Medical Association, I thought this thread was due for a bump: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/vaccination-refusal-measles-outbreak-study-1.3490506 Quote Vaccine refusal linked to recent U.S. measles outbreak, study suggests Quote 'Phenomenon of vaccine refusal' increases risk of measles among everyone By Justin Li, CBC News Posted: Mar 15, 2016 11:01 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 15, 2016 1:02 PM ET Since the U.S. declared measles eliminated in 2000, there have been 1,416 reported cases in the country through Nov. 30, 2015. (Justin Sullivan/Getty Images) Vaccinate the herd for the defenceless few 2:34 Dr. Caroline Quach, infectious disease specialist, on measles 4:36 Vaccination Rules 6:38 278 shares Facebook Twitter Reddit Google Share Email Related Stories Possible measles exposure in Brampton, Mississauga, Peel public health warns Mandatory childhood vaccinations supported by majority in B.C. and Alberta: poll Saskatchewan considering mandatory vaccination records in schools Should immunization records be disclosed to schools? Measles cases confirmed in Quebec City Measles, a disease that was considered eliminated 16 years ago in the U.S., has made a comeback in which a "substantial proportion" of the cases are associated with vaccine refusal, a study suggests. The study, recently published in the March 15 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, says "the phenomenon of vaccine refusal" increases the risk for measles among individuals who are not vaccinated or refuse to get vaccinated, and also among those who are already fully vaccinated. Measles vaccinations of toddlers at 89%, below 'herd immunity' level Mandatory childhood vaccinations supported by majority in B.C. and Alberta: poll Vaccination rates in Newfoundland and Labrador highest in country Researchers took into consideration 18 measles studies published since the disease was declared eliminated in the U.S. on Jan. 1, 2000, through Nov. 30, 2015. They found that of the 1,416 measles cases reported in the U.S. during that time span, 804 cases, or 56.8 per cent, had no medical history or record of receiving the vaccine, as opposed to the 199 cases, or 14.1 per cent, involving individuals who did. Of the 970 cases in which such data could be extrapolated, 574 cases involved individuals who were unvaccinated despite being eligible to receive one, and 405 of those had nonmedical exemptions — such as exemptions for religious, moral or philosophical reasons — as opposed to medical contraindications. Play Media Rex Murphy: Anti-Vaccine Movement3:11 The study notes the increase of measles incidents was initially seen only among states where nonmedical exemptions were readily offered, but states with "moderately difficult" exemption procedures have experienced increases in measles rates as nonmedical exemptions have "steadily increased" in the last 20 years. Researchers also said a higher rate of vaccine exemption or refusal in a community is associated with increased incidences of measles in that community, among persons with and without exemptions. The study points to a 2014 outbreak of measles that originated at Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif. Of the 111 measles cases reported from the outbreak, approximately half were unvaccinated individuals, most of whom were eligible for vaccination yet remained unvaccinated. Play Media Answers to measles questions6:49 "A substantial proportion of the U.S. measles cases in the era after elimination were intentionally unvaccinated," researchers concluded. "The phenomenon of vaccine refusal was associated with an increased risk for measles among people who refuse vaccines and among fully vaccinated individuals." Researchers note the link between vaccine refusal and increased risk of contracting vaccine-preventable diseases is "imperfectly defined" and said the association between the two could be population- and disease-specific. The study also looked at 32 reports of pertussis outbreaks and found that, in the five largest statewide outbreaks in the U.S., those who were unvaccinated or undervaccinated ranged from 25 to 45 per cent of those who contracted it. Although vaccine refusal was associated with an increased risk of contracting the virus widely known as whooping cough, the researchers noted several outbreaks occurred in highly vaccinated populations, indicating a possibly waning immunity to pertussis. A boy in Santa Ana, Calif., reacts to a measles, mumps and rubella vaccination (MMR) as his father tries to comfort him. A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association says unvaccinated children are 22 times more likely to contract measles than those who were vaccinated. (David McNew/Getty Images) Unvaccinated children vulnerable Children with vaccine exemptions were 22 times more likely to acquire measles than fully vaccinated children, according to one study cited by researchers, which used data from Colorado measles cases from 1987 through 1998. The risk was highest among children with exemptions between the ages of three and 10 years old. Among vaccinated children who contracted measles, 11 per cent contracted the disease from an individual with an exemption. "The most direct measure of vaccine refusal is the rate of parents claiming nonmedical exemptions to school immunization requirements," researchers wrote. Of all the measles cases since 2000, the study says 178 involved children younger than 12 months. Researchers suggest the study has "broad implications" for vaccine policy in the U.S., including the possible overriding of parents' decisions to not vaccinate their children. Play Media Ottawa couple runs vaccine-free daycare2:16 "Fundamental to the strength and legitimacy of justification to override parental decisions to refuse a vaccine for their child is a clear demonstration that the risks and harms to the child of remaining unimmunized are substantial," researchers wrote. Measles prevention comes in two doses of a vaccine, including the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) immunization or measles-mumps-rubella-varicella (MMRV) immunization. The needle vaccine is given to children first between the ages of 12 to 15 months and again at 18 months or four to six years, depending on the province or territory. Public Health says the vaccine is safe, effective and free. There can be some mild side-effects, however, including redness or soreness where the needle went in, as well as slight fever, skin rash and swollen glands. A single dose is considered to have up to a 95 per cent effectiveness rate, which rises to 99 per cent with the two doses recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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