Ontario teachers wants you to know the facts about their strike - "it's not about the money"

[ice orca]

Maybe they need that 3.2 bill to dump in their pension fund to buy a new NHL franchise in the GTA. They did pretty good with the last one.

[falcon45ca]

Those that can. Do.

Those that can't. Teach.

It's a fun quote from a good story, but it's total garbage. Most teachers CAN do what they teach, in many professions...ever met a music teacher who can't play an instrument? A driving instructor who doesn't know how to operate a vehicle? Hell, doctors are taught by teachers, who themselves are in fact doctors.

[stawns]

Those that can. Do.

Those that can't. Teach.

those that do, had excellent teachers growing up.

[stawns]

Class sizes is just a creative way of forcing the hiring of additional teachers which...

anyone? anyone?

Pay more union dues.

It's always, *always* about money. The horse**** that comes from the mouths of these people stinks so badly, yet they cannot smell it themselves. The actual teachers better wake up and smell what they're shoveling via their union handlers.

what makes you qualified to say that? I'm interested to hear what role you play in the education system.

[Down by the River]

Class sizes is just a creative way of forcing the hiring of additional teachers which...

anyone? anyone?

Pay more union dues.

It's always, *always* about money. The horse**** that comes from the mouths of these people stinks so badly, yet they cannot smell it themselves. The actual teachers better wake up and smell what they're shoveling via their union handlers.

I'd rather listen to the research showing the relationship between smaller class sizes and better learning outcomes/future income/ low unemployment rates, etc.

It is perfectly fine to argue the utility/benefit of unions. It is plain silly to use an opinion about unions to make judgements about the efficacy of smaller classes.

[Tortorella's Rant]

It's always about the money.

Pretty much. I saw the Abbotsford school teacher payroll released for 2013-2014 just the other day. Every single teacher elementary and high school made over 70k a year at the very minimum with more than a few exceeding 100k. But it's not enough; they'll strike and put my mum, a secretary, out of work for days or even a couple weeks for a few dollars more. And of course she gets nothing. And apparently it's illegal for her to go into the school and actually do her job while the teachers are on strike. I don't know why she's part of it because they've never done anything for her.

[stawns]

Pretty much. I saw the Abbotsford school teacher payroll released for 2013-2014 just the other day. Every single teacher elementary and high school made over 70k a year at the very minimum with more than a few exceeding 100k. But it's not enough; they'll strike and put my mum, a secretary, out of work for days or even a couple weeks for a few dollars more. And of course she gets nothing. And apparently it's illegal for her to go into the school and actually do her job while the teachers are on strike. I don't know why she's part of it because they've never done anything for her.

do some research before spouting off. No one wanted to strike, but you should be taking government to task for ripping up a negotiated contract and then absolutely gutting the education system. Trust me, you clearly have no idea what is happening to our schools.

[Tortorella's Rant]

do some research before spouting off. No one wanted to strike, but you should be taking government to task for ripping up a negotiated contract and then absolutely gutting the education system. Trust me, you clearly have no idea what is happening to our schools.

Please elaborate, professor

[Down by the River]

Pretty much. I saw the Abbotsford school teacher payroll released for 2013-2014 just the other day. Every single teacher elementary and high school made over 70k a year at the very minimum with more than a few exceeding 100k. But it's not enough; they'll strike and put my mum, a secretary, out of work for days or even a couple weeks for a few dollars more. And of course she gets nothing. And apparently it's illegal for her to go into the school and actually do her job while the teachers are on strike. I don't know why she's part of it because they've never done anything for her.

Where did you see this? If you're talking about the BC government employee salary page, the government has to report the salaries of its employees making 75k or more. So, if you're looking at this site, of course ALL teachers are going to be making at least 75k a year, because the report is only reporting the salaries for that group .

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/public-sector-salaries/basic.html?appSession=367511204803645

And the 'teachers' making 100k, are not actually teachers...

The Abbotsford payroll site shows a starting salary of ~40k and a max salary of ~80k. Either you were lying in your original post, or you just don't know what you're talking about but are too lazy to try and understand.

http://www.makeafuture.ca/career-resources/salary-finder/fraser-valley-salary-finder/

[stawns]

Please elaborate, professor

go to a school board meeting and listen to their budget talks. I work in a smaller district and for the last 10 years, it has been cuts of at least a million dollars, every single year. There's nothing left to cut, yet, still, boards are having to cut millions. There's no text books, computers, if they malfunction are not being fixed, libraries are closed for chunks of the week, there are no more caps on class or composition, schools of pretty moderate size are now losing their VP's, music programs are being slashed, trades programs in my district are being slashed, parents will now have to pay for bussing in my district.........and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

It's disgusting what this government is doing all while increasing funding for private schools, where most of their own kids attend.

[riffraff]

It's a fun quote from a good story, but it's total garbage. Most teachers CAN do what they teach, in many professions...ever met a music teacher who can't play an instrument? A driving instructor who doesn't know how to operate a vehicle? Hell, doctors are taught by teachers, who themselves are in fact doctors.

When I was in elementary school my music teacher was missing all his fingers and his thumb on one hand. I'm not joking; his name was Mr. Palmer.

Man could he play the bongos.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Would you rather have your kids be taught by minimum wage workers, or at least those who are unionized and still content with lower pay?

The public complains about how much teachers make, then also complains when their kids are being short-changed and left behind at school.

However, I'm tired of the 'class size' argument. That's never been the problem. A teacher can teach 50-60 kids in a class easily if they all paid attention. The problem is that there are too many cutbacks to special needs and behavior problem child services for teachers in class, and those kids, along with their frustrated and/or neglectful parents, can dominate a teacher's time.

imho, and I'm speaking in generalizations, the money would be spent more efficiently if these children were identified and kept seperate from the rest of the classmates who are ready to learn. Instead, we've adopted a 'sweep it under the rug' policy with regards to this issue, and it's following the way we now treat our insane... While being polite and socially acceptable about it, we just tossed them into the street.

The PC movement, liability and fear of hurting each others feelings has downgraded our society to a pillow generation, and it's getting worse.

Time to get real.

[Tortorella's Rant]

Where did you see this? If you're talking about the BC government employee salary page, the government has to report the salaries of its employees making 75k or more. So, if you're looking at this site, of course ALL teachers are going to be making at least 75k a year, because the report is only reporting the salaries for that group .

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/public-sector-salaries/basic.html?appSession=367511204803645

And the 'teachers' making 100k, are not actually teachers...

The Abbotsford payroll site shows a starting salary of ~40k and a max salary of ~80k. Either you were lying in your original post, or you just don't know what you're talking about but are too lazy to try and understand.

http://www.makeafuture.ca/career-resources/salary-finder/fraser-valley-salary-finder/

I saw a different source pertaining directly to Abby, more detail. I misspoke because I was in a hurry to go . I brought up the other day how so and so makes 175k but he clearly to me is not a teacher. Obviously not all teachers make 70k+ but well over 400 of them do. That 400+ does not include the principles who make 100k+. I am partially correct. The district employs approximately 2,000 people in their schools according to that very website. Point being I have very little sympathy for 20-25% of the employees crying they don't make enough money (which is always one of their main reasons for striking), employees who get more time off than others, and employees who trample over others to get it as mentioned.

[stawns]

I saw a different source pertaining directly to Abby, more detail. I misspoke because I was in a hurry to go . I brought up the other day how so and so makes 175k but he clearly to me is not a teacher. Obviously not all teachers make 70k+ but well over 400 of them do. That 400+ does not include the principles who make 100k+. I am partially correct. The district employs approximately 2,000 people in their schools according to that very website. Point being I have very little sympathy for 20-25% of the employees crying they don't make enough money (which is always one of their main reasons for striking), employees who get more time off than others, and employees who trample over others to get it as mentioned.

actually, you should take teachers at their word about strikes......someone has to advocate for kids who can't afford to go to private schools like Christy Clark's kid does......incidentally, those schools have small classes with full support for struggling learners, full time music programs, full time libraries. I guess those things do matter after all.

[Down by the River]

I saw a different source pertaining directly to Abby, more detail. I misspoke because I was in a hurry to go . I brought up the other day how so and so makes 175k but he clearly to me is not a teacher. Obviously not all teachers make 70k+ but well over 400 of them do. That 400+ does not include the principles who make 100k+. I am partially correct. The district employs approximately 2,000 people in their schools according to that very website. Point being I have very little sympathy for 20-25% of the employees crying they don't make enough money (which is always one of their main reasons for striking), employees who get more time off than others, and employees who trample over others to get it as mentioned.

Your statement that 'well over 400 of them do' is also completely incorrect.

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/public-sector-salaries/basic.html?appSession=856511228663726&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=2&cpipage=45&CPISortType=asc&CPIorderBy=Title

[westcoast]

It's definitely about the money for those doctoring up the propaganda press releases.

[LuckyLuciano]

It's not about the money... But it's about the &^@#ing money

[Webster6]

I think the whole structure society has built for educating the youth, which has been perpetuated needs to be scrapped and completely revamped. Too be fair to the teacher's a tiny bit (Not really though the need to stop "hurting kids to help the kids") Government hasn't cared to invest much money in education throughout history. Nevertheless I think they should be preaching their case for reform to the government in masses, on their own time. And hopefully create a big enough grassroots movement to really change something that they collectively find important. Sitting on the sidewalk asking for honks and waving signs while some kids miss the end of the semester and can't get their work completed is horsecrap. Not everyone is on a linear educational path, Some people are on roller coaster paths. And interrupting their education over your sudden epiphany of what kind change should happen; isn't an acceptable reason to strike on their time. Most of the teachers out there sitting around are there to collect 50 dollars, not inspire some massive change through some extravagant plan they independently developed.

The system doesn't take care of the teachers (I'd argue it never has), the teachers morale plummets, and in turn the kids are hurt by the collective of teachers that just don't give a *expletive* anymore, deep down anyway. That or they're a relatively new teacher trying to be involved in something they've been lead to believe is a moral stance. When in reality it's the furthest thing from the truth. Education reform is gonna need to be a bigger movement than some unhappy teachers trying to ask for a few more bucks by waving a few signs around instead of educating our future. It's been just a constant kicking of the can down the road to match in equivalence, how much the currency has inflated over time. Very little is being done to make educational institutions more effective.

[ronthecivil]

Maybe they need that 3.2 bill to dump in their pension fund to buy a new NHL franchise in the GTA. They did pretty good with the last one.

Yet even with the fantastic returns their investments have been making the pension fund still doesn't have enough to pay the projected pensions.

It's the poster child for just how ridiculous the commitments for pensions are going to come and bite Canadians in the ass. And it's going to be a nasty, shark like bite......

[ronthecivil]

go to a school board meeting and listen to their budget talks. I work in a smaller district and for the last 10 years, it has been cuts of at least a million dollars, every single year. There's nothing left to cut, yet, still, boards are having to cut millions. There's no text books, computers, if they malfunction are not being fixed, libraries are closed for chunks of the week, there are no more caps on class or composition, schools of pretty moderate size are now losing their VP's, music programs are being slashed, trades programs in my district are being slashed, parents will now have to pay for bussing in my district.........and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

It's disgusting what this government is doing all while increasing funding for private schools, where most of their own kids attend.

Parents that send their kids to private school also pay taxes. Why shouldn't they get the same per student funding as every other school does?

Is it their fault they happen to be better at educating children?

BTW, get used to the situation. The healthcare monster is going to be easting up even more money moving forward, and with more and more retirees, there's going to be less tax revenue as well. Do you really expect an aging population to care about education more than benefits for themselves? Good luck with that.

Unfortunately, simple math will win every time. Just ask the Greeks.......