Investing in the stock market - Discussion

[nuckin_futz]

For those still following the NKLA story..........

Nikola Shares Drop After Hindenburg Research Calls It An "Intricate Fraud", Compares It To Theranos

Update 9/10/2020 0939AM EST: Nikola's CEO has responded on Twitter, saying he "needs a few hours" to respond to the report. 

 

Nikola shares are selling off pre-market in response to a new report from Hindenburg Research, which calls it an "intricate fraud" based on conversations with former employees.

 

"Today, we reveal why we believe Nikola is an intricate fraud built on dozens of lies over the course of its Founder and Executive Chairman Trevor Milton’s career," the report claims.

 

"We have gathered extensive evidence—including recorded phone calls, text messages, private emails and behind-the-scenes photographs—detailing dozens of false statements by Nikola Founder Trevor Milton. We have never seen this level of deception at a public company, especially of this size."

 

 

The report was followed by Tweets that appear to show various types of deception from the company. For example, one Tweet claims that Nikola's "One" semi truck was just rolling down a hill in a video where the company claimed it was "in motion.

 

Similar claims seem to show that the Nikola One was not powered on its own during its 2016 reveal, previously called into question by Bloomberg several months. Rather, the report notes there was 

The report calls the reveal a "total farce".

 

 

The report also questions some key hires at Nikola.

 

And calls into question the company's supposed battery technology. 

 

The report comes just days after Nikola inked a partnership with General Motors, wherein GM would be supplying Nikola with fuel cells and production capacity - leaving many to wonder what, if anything Nikola was bringing to the deal. We imagine those skeptics will want to dig through this morning's report.

 

You can read the entire report here.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/nikola-shares-drop-after-hindenburg-research-calls-it-intricate-fraud-compares-it-theranos

 

The formatting on CDC kinda makes a mess. Click on the link above for an 'easier on the eyes' version.

Edited September 10, 2020 by nuckin_futz

[Duodenum]

18 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

For those still following the NKLA story..........

Nikola Shares Drop After Hindenburg Research Calls It An "Intricate Fraud", Compares It To Theranos

Update 9/10/2020 0939AM EST: Nikola's CEO has responded on Twitter, saying he "needs a few hours" to respond to the report. 

 

Nikola shares are selling off pre-market in response to a new report from Hindenburg Research, which calls it an "intricate fraud" based on conversations with former employees.

 

"Today, we reveal why we believe Nikola is an intricate fraud built on dozens of lies over the course of its Founder and Executive Chairman Trevor Milton’s career," the report claims.

 

"We have gathered extensive evidence—including recorded phone calls, text messages, private emails and behind-the-scenes photographs—detailing dozens of false statements by Nikola Founder Trevor Milton. We have never seen this level of deception at a public company, especially of this size."

 

 

The report was followed by Tweets that appear to show various types of deception from the company. For example, one Tweet claims that Nikola's "One" semi truck was just rolling down a hill in a video where the company claimed it was "in motion.

 

Similar claims seem to show that the Nikola One was not powered on its own during its 2016 reveal, previously called into question by Bloomberg several months. Rather, the report notes there was 

The report calls the reveal a "total farce".

 

 

The report also questions some key hires at Nikola.

 

And calls into question the company's supposed battery technology. 

 

The report comes just days after Nikola inked a partnership with General Motors, wherein GM would be supplying Nikola with fuel cells and production capacity - leaving many to wonder what, if anything Nikola was bringing to the deal. We imagine those skeptics will want to dig through this morning's report.

 

You can read the entire report here.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/nikola-shares-drop-after-hindenburg-research-calls-it-intricate-fraud-compares-it-theranos

 

NKLA's stock price is about to dwindle away to nothing unless Milton has some answers. I don't think anyone on CDC is still in NKLA...funny to think we all made bank off a possibly fraud company. Hindenburg has been known to make stuff up too. In any case, if you're in NKLA, I would get out ASAP, too much risk.

[NucksPatsFan]

@nuckin_futz I don't wanna quote your vertical post (lol) but GM came out and stood by them, didn't they?

Again, I trust the lawyers and investigators of GM and Annheuser Busch a lot more than the 3 Starbucks baristas that Hindenburg employs. 

 

Not in NKLA, but this short attack was more about a character assassination of Trevor rather than the company. 

 

At the end of the day, even if Trevor is a lying con man who swindled his way into creating a company with no product that has 700mm in cash, and can now just offload all of the manufacturing and fuel cell technology to GM, the company will still generate revenue. 

 

Trevor's only contribution to these vehicles may be hiring the right graphic designer, but I still think there will be Nikola/GM trucks on the road in a few years.

[nuckin_futz]

39 minutes ago, NucksPatsFan said:

@nuckin_futz I don't wanna quote your vertical post (lol) but GM came out and stood by them, didn't they?

Again, I trust the lawyers and investigators of GM and Annheuser Busch a lot more than the 3 Starbucks baristas that Hindenburg employs. 

 

Not in NKLA, but this short attack was more about a character assassination of Trevor rather than the company. 

 

At the end of the day, even if Trevor is a lying con man who swindled his way into creating a company with no product that has 700mm in cash, and can now just offload all of the manufacturing and fuel cell technology to GM, the company will still generate revenue. 

 

Trevor's only contribution to these vehicles may be hiring the right graphic designer, but I still think there will be Nikola/GM trucks on the road in a few years.

Yes thank you for not quoting the vertical post lol. Not sure if GM has commented and stood by them. But what else would you expect them to do?

 

GM's lawyers and investigators may be competent but I have my doubts about CEO Mary Barra.

 

Perhaps GM was just desperate to hook up with any electric vehicle manufacturer. It's not like there are that many potential dance partners out there. Look back about 12-18 months ago when so many companies were desperate to hook up with Cannabis companies. I bet they all regret doing that now. Or at least doing so at the prices they did. 

 

Is NKLA a fraud? I don't know. Did GM make a bad decision? I don't know. Time will tell. In the meantime the stock is moving and there is opportunity in both directions.

[CBH1926]

20 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Yes thank you for not quoting the vertical post lol. Not sure if GM has commented and stood by them. But what else would you expect them to do?

 

GM's lawyers and investigators may be competent but I have my doubts about CEO Mary Barra.

 

Perhaps GM was just desperate to hook up with any electric vehicle manufacturer. It's not like there are that many potential dance partners out there. Look back about 12-18 months ago when so many companies were desperate to hook up with Cannabis companies. I bet they all regret doing that now. Or at least doing so at the prices they did. 

 

Is NKLA a fraud? I don't know. Did GM make a bad decision? I don't know. Time will tell. In the meantime the stock is moving and there is opportunity in both directions.

We talked about this stock few times before, no sales but market cap of 20-30 billion.

Classic pump and dump, I can buy cisco stock for under $40 that has 50b in sales or Nikola for $90 all time high with no sales.

I bought into few of these turds like Amarin, vistagen, magnagas etc.

Being pumped up and now it’s worth $&!#.

Analysts were calling for $100 per share for amarin, I could have bought truckload of fish oil for the amount of money I lost.

[inane]

Glad I got out of that with 80% gain. 

[I.Am.Ironman]

I'll take the 300% gain from VTIQ at $20 to NKLA at $80 and call it a day. It will be interesting to see how this story develops though.

[nuckin_futz]

2 hours ago, NucksPatsFan said:

Again, I trust the lawyers and investigators of GM and Annheuser Busch a lot more than the 3 Starbucks baristas that Hindenburg employs.

 

Never underestimate how incompetent people can be in their due diligence. Just look at the long list of companies and investors who were duped in the Theranos scam. Walgreens brought that crap into their stores without ever having tested it. Safeway was in for $350 million. The list of people duped into investing is quite a who's who of business titans. The Walton family (Wal-Mart) was in for $150 million, Rupert Murdoch was taken for $121 million, Betsy DeVos $100 million, The Cox family $100 million, Carlos Slim, among many others. Even Robert Kraft was taken for a million bucks.

 

Those are all smart, successful people. They should have known better. But they all wanted to get in on a ground breaking technology. In their haste not to miss out, they failed in their due diligence and allowed themselves to fall for a scam. The scam they fell for was not the typical 'financial fraud' but rather 'product fraud'. They all wanted to get in before others did. Greed and fear (FOMO) at it's finest. Is Mary Barra smarter than any of those people?

 

Sidenote : Elizabeth Holmes' new defense strategy is to claim that she's loopy.

 

1 hour ago, CBH1926 said:

We talked about this stock few times before, no sales but market cap of 20-30 billion.

Classic pump and dump, I can buy cisco stock for under $40 that has 50b in sales or Nikola for $90 all time high with no sales.

I bought into few of these turds like Amarin, vistagen, magnagas etc.

Being pumped up and now it’s worth $&!#.

Analysts were calling for $100 per share for amarin, I could have bought truckload of fish oil for the amount of money I lost.

Man I sure love a good P&D. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Take a gander at our old friend GNUS. 52wk high $11.73. Currently fetching $1.04.

 

Unfortunately in markets we only learn by losing cash. We learn very little when we make money. It's human nature. You got to put your hand on the hot stove to learn not to do it again.

 

What would you have done with your truckload of fish oil?

[CBH1926]

11 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Never underestimate how incompetent people can be in their due diligence. Just look at the long list of companies and investors who were duped in the Theranos scam. Walgreens brought that crap into their stores without ever having tested it. Safeway was in for $350 million. The list of people duped into investing is quite a who's who of business titans. The Walton family (Wal-Mart) was in for $150 million, Rupert Murdoch was taken for $121 million, Betsy DeVos $100 million, The Cox family $100 million, Carlos Slim, among many others. Even Robert Kraft was taken for a million bucks.

 

Those are all smart, successful people. They should have known better. But they all wanted to get in on a ground breaking technology. In their haste not to miss out, they failed in their due diligence and allowed themselves to fall for a scam. The scam they fell for was not the typical 'financial fraud' but rather 'product fraud'. They all wanted to get in before others did. Greed and fear (FOMO) at it's finest. Is Mary Barra smarter than any of those people?

 

Sidenote : Elizabeth Holmes' new defense strategy is to claim that she's loopy.

 

Man I sure love a good P&D. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Take a gander at our old friend GNUS. 52wk high $11.73. Currently fetching $1.04.

 

Unfortunately in markets we only learn by losing cash. We learn very little when we make money. It's human nature. You got to put your hand on the hot stove to learn not to do it again.

 

What would you have done with your truckload of fish oil?

Gotten a nice diarrhea and the by product would be the same quality as the amarin stock.

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, CBH1926 said:

Gotten a nice diarrhea and the by product would be the same quality as the amarin stock.

[CBH1926]

@AriGold2.0 Ark etf bought almost 550k shares of slack stock.
Maybe there is something that we are missing.

[skolozsy2]

Should I be concerned that in the last 9 months over 150,000 shares have sold from insiders?  Sellers included their CFO/treasurer and President/VP of sales.

Edited September 10, 2020 by skolozsy2

[AriGold2.0]

30 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

@AriGold2.0 Ark etf bought almost 550k shares of slack stock.
Maybe there is something that we are missing.

[CBH1926]

39 minutes ago, AriGold2.0 said:

Honestly I am thinking it’s going to low 20s but I would imagine ark would not burn money like that.

Just thought I should share with you.

[Russ]

I did not think this little pissing match with Epic Games over Fortnite would kill my Apple stocks like it has.  Getting absolutely killed right now.

[CBH1926]

2 minutes ago, Russ said:

I did not think this little pissing match with Epic Games over Fortnite would kill my Apple stocks like it has.  Getting absolutely killed right now.

What was your entry point?

[Russ]

1 minute ago, CBH1926 said:

What was your entry point?

Recently, not a good time to buy when a couple days later Epic started this pissing contest with them.  I will be holding for a good 5+ years probably so not really worried long term, I am not looking to buy/sell on the weekly, don't have the time for that as I am always working while markets are open, etc. and don't have time to dink around comparing what to and not to own.  

[CBH1926]

3 minutes ago, Russ said:

Recently, not a good time to buy when a couple days later Epic started this pissing contest with them.  I will be holding for a good 5+ years probably so not really worried long term, I am not looking to buy/sell on the weekly, don't have the time for that as I am always working while markets are open, etc. and don't have time to dink around comparing what to and not to own.  

Yeah, if you are planning to hold on for several years you should be ok.

[Russ]

15 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Yeah, if you are planning to hold on for several years you should be ok.

Like I told the wife, stocks aren't fun to watch day to day, gets my stress level too high. We pretty much got 30+ years before retirement when I look to touch the stocks really at some point. 

[Tortorella's Rant]

1 hour ago, Russ said:

Like I told the wife, stocks aren't fun to watch day to day, gets my stress level too high. We pretty much got 30+ years before retirement when I look to touch the stocks really at some point. 

I think it's a good one. Dirt cheap and if you believe in them then why not. Even if Steam/Valve goes public eventually and swallows Epic up.

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Tortorella's Rant