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Horvat, McCann, Willie, and the Canucks strategy


Johnny Torts

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Hi everyone, longtime Canuck fan here. Been a guest here for years as well. 

Horvat

Bo Horvat will be an amazing player for us for years to come. He's a real exciting player to watch, he's always trying to create something out there. 

Hes being left to dry out there. With the dump and chase system, he has to battle 6-7 year dmen for the puck, or skate to the bench after a dead play because his line mates aren't quick enough to retrieve the puck. The biggest difference is exactly this. Playing with Dorsett last year they were so exciting because Dorsett is a dump and chase machine, he wins those battles. Prime example is when McCann was playing with Dorsett, those point were coming for McCann then.

Anyone else noticing Horvat becoming more of a power forward than a 2-way?

McCann

19 year old Jared McCann, this boy is something else. He will almost always make something happen on the ice - when he carries the puck across the blue line. He's always looking for open ice in the ozone. I still believe he is most effective carrying the puck in and trying to make a play. 

Willie 

Willie is awesome! A couple things in the coaching department bother me though. These young kids are here. Theyre HERE. Why? Because of all of their experience? No. It's because of their skill. Let them do their thing. Let them carry the puck across the line, they love doing it! 

The Strategy 

The Sedins are great, whatever they're doing is working. Line 2 and 3 need to put the puck on the sticks on Bo and Jared because these guys will walk in, pass, deke, or shoot. They will generate a chance regardless. Dumping = dead play.

If not, put burrows back with the Sedins and move Hansen to line 2 and Dorsett to line 3, having to vets that can also skate and retrieve that puck. 

 

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading everyone! 

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The problem is our 2nd and 3rd lines can barely pass, let alone choose who they pass to. Imo each line needs an elite skilled guy, A guy who can enter the zone and draw 2 players towards the puck because they are concerned about what he can do with the puck. Right now non of our lines have that type of player so teams don't have to worry about covering one player, which leaves us in the never ending passing game.

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1 minute ago, Gstank29 said:

The problem is our 2nd and 3rd lines can barely pass, let alone choose who they pass to. Imo each line needs an elite skilled guy, A guy who can enter the zone and draw 2 players towards the puck because they are concerned about what he can do with the puck. Right now non of our lines have that type of player so teams don't have to worry about covering one player, which leaves us in the never ending passing game.

And this leads them to dump and chase. Would you agree that if there was more speed on the Horvat line and the McCann line that they'd be more effective? Ie. Winning more puck battles and centering the puck like Dorsett did quite often for Bo last season.

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Ideally our lines would have

1 scorer 1 two player and a powerforward, but we seriously lack in power forwards and 1 shot scorers.

Speed would help with the dump and chase game but after that i think we would be back to the cycle down load until we loss the puck.

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Horvat has the potential to be Toews II with his two-way acumen and leadership. However, the Canucks don't exactly have the same leadership vaccuum Toews stepped into as a rookie, so there will be some political maneuvering to make the most of his leadership, which eventually will shine out.

McCann showing lots of potential too. Great additional center with Horvat.

 

WD needs to manage his two youngsters and make the most of them. Play them on the attack, on defense. Find the right linemates. They will really go.

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Well if your don't play McCann with Higgins he might actually put up points. And Horvat is trying to do to much. He should be on the 4th line with Dorsett and Prust to remind him what got him here. He needs to re focus on his face-offs and d zone coverage. They'll both be fine tho. They just have to figure out who they are at the NHL level

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Just for the record.... Is anyone else noticing Horvats lack of push back? Like he is getting pushed around out there and doesn't push back. Like the kid needs to stand up for himself. To many times when there is scrums after the whistle he stands off to the side and doesn't do anything then skates to the bench. Im tired of his lack of push back, you would think if he isn't scoring or playing well he would start throwing the body and get involved physically. Maybe he needs to get into his first NHL fight? 

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5 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

Just for the record.... Is anyone else noticing Horvats lack of push back? Like he is getting pushed around out there and doesn't push back. Like the kid needs to stand up for himself. To many times when there is scrums after the whistle he stands off to the side and doesn't do anything then skates to the bench. Im tired of his lack of push back, you would think if he isn't scoring or playing well he would start throwing the body and get involved physically. Maybe he needs to get into his first NHL fight? 

What & get some debilitating concussion? If I were in these young kid's shoes, I'd at least get to the bridge(beyond ELC), before getting belligerent & nasty.

In his mid-20's Bo will probably be a big, solid kid that not many rivals will attempt liberties with.

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11 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

Just for the record.... Is anyone else noticing Horvats lack of push back? Like he is getting pushed around out there and doesn't push back. Like the kid needs to stand up for himself. To many times when there is scrums after the whistle he stands off to the side and doesn't do anything then skates to the bench. Im tired of his lack of push back, you would think if he isn't scoring or playing well he would start throwing the body and get involved physically. Maybe he needs to get into his first NHL fight? 

I sorta agree with you. But he has an aggressiveness on the puck and shields himself like many other power forwards do. He's a really strong kid and he will grow into a mean skilled centre

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7 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

What & get some debilitating concussion? If I were in these young kid's shoes, I'd at least get to the bridge(beyond ELC), before getting belligerent & nasty.

In his mid-20's Bo will probably be a big, solid kid that not many rivals will attempt liberties with.

I'm sorry where did I say fight John Scott? I meant like fight RHN or someone like that, not some heavyweight....

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45 minutes ago, Johnny Torts said:

Hi everyone, longtime Canuck fan here. Been a guest here for years as well. 

Horvat

Bo Horvat will be an amazing player for us for years to come. He's a real exciting player to watch, he's always trying to create something out there. 

Hes being left to dry out there. With the dump and chase system, he has to battle 6-7 year dmen for the puck, or skate to the bench after a dead play because his line mates aren't quick enough to retrieve the puck. The biggest difference is exactly this. Playing with Dorsett last year they were so exciting because Dorsett is a dump and chase machine, he wins those battles. Prime example is when McCann was playing with Dorsett, those point were coming for McCann then.

Anyone else noticing Horvat becoming more of a power forward than a 2-way? ....

 

Good OP. Your analysis of Horvat contains an insight that I have not seen before and I never thought of. But I think you are right. Bo is getting worn down by the dump and chase system. Burrows has never been fast and seems to have lost a step (which is normal at his age) and therefore is no longer good on the forecheck. And Baertschi is fast but not good on the forecheck. So Bo is doing too much work at both ends of the ice.

You overall assessments are kind of optimistic, though. McCann and Horvat both have skill but it remains to be seen if that skill translates into significant scoring at the NHL level. I am more optimistic about McCann than Horvat on this dimension.

It might be that Horvat's ceiling is as a shutdown 3C/ PK kind of guy (like Malholtra). I hope he does better than that, but his rate of progress has certainly slowed relative to last year. But I agree that the lack of effective support from the D, the injury to Sutter and playing with linemates who are either in decline (Burrows, Higgins) or not yet at the NHL level (Baertschi) has hurt him.

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I think both Horvat and Mccann are currently in over their head for where their development is at. Both were playing quite well prior to Sutters injury. Both move up a line and both are struggling to produce despite increased ice time.

As far as dump and chase being Willies strategy I don't buy it. I think it has more to do with what the other team is giving these guys. If there isn't a clean entry you dump and chase. if there's a clean entry you carry it in. It's just that simple. Now I haven't seen much in the way of dump ins when there's a clean entry other than to do a line change.

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If sutter wasn't injured, I wouldn't mind seeing Horvat on the wing. Take away a little of the defensive responsibility and see how he reacts. 

 

He has the strength to fight along the boards. They did it to Gaunce to make him play harder and be more aggressive. 

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dump and chase requires speed and size to compete and win board battles on the wall to retrieve the puck.  The team is full of slow non compete veterans who want others to do all the hard work.  wont have any success playing this way and rookies will not look good with this style of coaching or play.  I agree with an earlier poster that stated each line needs an agressive forchecker with size and speed to win the battles.  Burrows and Vrbata on same line with this style doesnt work in my opinion, Sedins too slow which is why Hansen works well with them now...Higgins and Sven are iether too small or don't compete hard enough to win battles which is why their line is struggling.    

 

 

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12 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

Hi everyone, longtime Canuck fan here. Been a guest here for years as well. 

Horvat

Bo Horvat will be an amazing player for us for years to come. He's a real exciting player to watch, he's always trying to create something out there. 

Hes being left to dry out there. With the dump and chase system, he has to battle 6-7 year dmen for the puck, or skate to the bench after a dead play because his line mates aren't quick enough to retrieve the puck. The biggest difference is exactly this. Playing with Dorsett last year they were so exciting because Dorsett is a dump and chase machine, he wins those battles. Prime example is when McCann was playing with Dorsett, those point were coming for McCann then.

Anyone else noticing Horvat becoming more of a power forward than a 2-way?

McCann

19 year old Jared McCann, this boy is something else. He will almost always make something happen on the ice - when he carries the puck across the blue line. He's always looking for open ice in the ozone. I still believe he is most effective carrying the puck in and trying to make a play. 

Willie 

Willie is awesome! A couple things in the coaching department bother me though. These young kids are here. Theyre HERE. Why? Because of all of their experience? No. It's because of their skill. Let them do their thing. Let them carry the puck across the line, they love doing it! 

The Strategy 

The Sedins are great, whatever they're doing is working. Line 2 and 3 need to put the puck on the sticks on Bo and Jared because these guys will walk in, pass, deke, or shoot. They will generate a chance regardless. Dumping = dead play.

If not, put burrows back with the Sedins and move Hansen to line 2 and Dorsett to line 3, having to vets that can also skate and retrieve that puck. 

 

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading everyone! 

Horvat is good. Dorsett's also more than a pair of fists.

Their young and will put on weight in time. The one thing they do have is speed. Old injured vets won't have their strength.

They should be concentrating on attacking zone plays in practice. Once they get into a pattern, when circumstances in a game mimic the pattern they'll know where to be and when. That's advantage of Sedins, they've played together so long they both know what happens next by what each other does.

I'm not a fan of dump and chase and believe it should be used only where everyone's covered and there is no other option.

Never made sense to breakout efficiently only to risk turn over on a 50/50% chance you get the puck back in the attacking zone.

Possession gives you 100% control.

Plays like Puck Carrier Delay or Puck on the wing are the kinds of plays I'm talking about. Using a drop pass on a 2 on 2.

When Sedins are in corners and Vrbata's high slot they make a perfect attack triangle. Line I think Van should have as first line.

Horvat and Dorsett watch how it works and begin using their own attack triangles.

Also - new guys don't realize sometimes it's good to hand the puck back to the defence and regroup when defenders have nailed everyone down. I know this may not be best advice given existing defence being tired from not having full lines or from causing alot of turnovers.

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12 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

Hi everyone, longtime Canuck fan here. Been a guest here for years as well. 

Horvat

Bo Horvat will be an amazing player for us for years to come. He's a real exciting player to watch, he's always trying to create something out there. 

Hes being left to dry out there. With the dump and chase system, he has to battle 6-7 year dmen for the puck, or skate to the bench after a dead play because his line mates aren't quick enough to retrieve the puck. The biggest difference is exactly this. Playing with Dorsett last year they were so exciting because Dorsett is a dump and chase machine, he wins those battles. Prime example is when McCann was playing with Dorsett, those point were coming for McCann then.

Anyone else noticing Horvat becoming more of a power forward than a 2-way?

McCann

19 year old Jared McCann, this boy is something else. He will almost always make something happen on the ice - when he carries the puck across the blue line. He's always looking for open ice in the ozone. I still believe he is most effective carrying the puck in and trying to make a play. 

Willie 

Willie is awesome! A couple things in the coaching department bother me though. These young kids are here. Theyre HERE. Why? Because of all of their experience? No. It's because of their skill. Let them do their thing. Let them carry the puck across the line, they love doing it! 

The Strategy 

The Sedins are great, whatever they're doing is working. Line 2 and 3 need to put the puck on the sticks on Bo and Jared because these guys will walk in, pass, deke, or shoot. They will generate a chance regardless. Dumping = dead play.

If not, put burrows back with the Sedins and move Hansen to line 2 and Dorsett to line 3, having to vets that can also skate and retrieve that puck. 

 

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading everyone! 

I agree with you on moving Hansen. He's been great with the Sedins and helped spark them, but maybe he can do the same for Horvat and maybe the Sedins can get Burr going. McCann has looked good and He and Vrbata are starting to get some Chemistry going. I like Higgins with them. I'd put Horvat with Hansen and Sven/Kenins (whoever is in the lineup). I love the heart,energy and toughness Dorsett brings, but the stats don't lie, plays die on his stick and the other team usually gets more possession when he's on the ice. He's a 4th liner, who is great at going out with Prust and Cracknell and getting the team going with a hard shift. To rely on him offensively and to get Bo going is a lot to ask.

 

 

 

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