Alflives Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 minute ago, CeeBee51 said: I think you meant to say "Benning traded a lot of picks so we only had 7 picks in 2014, 7 picks in 2015 and 6 picks so far in 2016. A rebuild isn't going to happen with only 20 picks in 3 years" Holy Crap! That's a lot of picks traded away. This is evidence, we are certainly not rebuilding. Thank goodness JB is so very good at the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: Well according to the majority of fans on here... The Canucks are vastly improved from the team that Benning inherited. That means we should win at least 1 playoff round this year. As we made the playoffs in his first year and had home advantage. I hate Benning but maybe I'm wrong. Let's hope we do win a playoff round this year. If we don't, Benning should be fired. He's traded away all our draft picks for "proven NHL players" which means the team should be improved. A rebuild isn't going to happen since we don't have any picks. If we're not rebuilding, if we're not winning playoff games. What is this team doing? But, I'm clearly in the minority in thinking this team is still awful. Let's hope I'm wrong and all you guys are right. So you expect a GM who inherited a team with no prospects and with a core of aging veterans to be able to get a competitive team and win a round of playoffs in 2 years or else he should be fired? No freaking wonder we can't do a rebuild. The fans would lose it. Even Mike Babcock or Pat Quinn couldn't do that. Give the guy a freaking break. Are we a competitive playoff team? No. Are we vastly improved from the previous year? Yes. Period end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: Because it's not 100% chance. Vey was a bust that only stuck around because of injuries. Even if he makes the team this year. You can sign a bunko 4th liner without giving up a 2nd round pick to do it. Also. You can't say 2nd round picks have no value. Then argue against tanking. Low 1st round picks have no value then either. People on here point to Duncan Keith being taken in the 2nd round, as proof you don't need top 3 picks to get stud D men. But then argue that 2nd round picks have no value. You can't have it both ways. Tryamkin was taken in the 3rd round. Let's do the math. If a player has been playing in the NHL for more then two seasons he has a 100 percent chance of being an NHL player that has played more then two seasons. Doesn't matter if the player is a star or a tweener. He's played 2 seasons and has made it farther than 70 percent of the other 2nd round picks. Why is this so hard to grasp? Where did I say 2nd round picks have no value? All I said is that they're OVER valued. Which they are. GM's are trading (maybe not stars mind you, but still the point stands) NHL players for a 30% chance to get an NHL player. That's ridiculous and Benning is cashing in. Worst case scenario we move them out for another asset, which may not have even been possible had we drafted one of the 2nd round 70% busts which have no value at all. Yes you can easily argue that. Do I think we'll find some good gems in our drafting? Yes absolutely. Do I think we'll be able to build an entire team through the 2nd round picks? No, I definitely don't. We're going to use a mix of the draft picks we get and trades to build our team. 1st round picks are only to be traded if we get a key key cornerstone player, but every other pick should be available to trade for someone we need. Like I said worst case scenario we trade them again for a pick or another asset. At least then we have a chance to trade up and gain value then with the 70 percent of 2nd rounders who don't amount to anything and waste a pick on them. You must be confusing me with another user, because this is the 2nd time you said I said something that I actually never said. You can get lucky and find a star anywhere, hell they don't even have to be in the draft (Tanev). That's pure luck and a bit of scouting skill. The ONLY pretty much guaranteed NHL players go in the first round, the rest is a crapshoot. Regardless of how good a scout Benning is I'd much rather have a guaranteed 100% NHL player compared to a 30% chance of one and even less of a chance of finding a superstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 We have 11 former 1st rounders on our current roster. 7 of those were brought in by Benning in just two years. Yeah, he deserves more credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 6 hours ago, Mattrek said: So you expect a GM who inherited a team with no prospects and with a core of aging veterans to be able to get a competitive team and win a round of playoffs in 2 years or else he should be fired? No freaking wonder we can't do a rebuild. The fans would lose it. Even Mike Babcock or Pat Quinn couldn't do that. Give the guy a freaking break. Are we a competitive playoff team? No. Are we vastly improved from the previous year? Yes. Period end of story. No, I don't expect this team to be competitive. The management expects it to be competitive. I expect this team to be garbage, which is why I wanted a rebuild. Also, no prospects? Horvat and Hutton weren't prospects? They're arguably the two best young players on the team. Vastly improved from last year? How is this team vastly improved, because we got a 2nd pairing D? This team could at least have a ton of prospects/picks if we traded those aging vets you mentioned. Instead, we added more aging vets to try to compete for a playoff spot. That didn't go so well last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 10 hours ago, Alflives said: Holy Crap! That's a lot of picks traded away. This is evidence, we are certainly not rebuilding. Thank goodness JB is so very good at the draft. You do realize that there would only be 21 picks if we just kept all our own picks. Also we have obtained one extra 1st over that period. So far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, appleboy said: You do realize that there would only be 21 picks if we just kept all our own picks. Also we have obtained one extra 1st over that period. So far! Wow! That's a crazy amount of picks then, especially in the first three rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: No, I don't expect this team to be competitive. The management expects it to be competitive. I expect this team to be garbage, which is why I wanted a rebuild. Also, no prospects? Horvat and Hutton weren't prospects? They're arguably the two best young players on the team. Vastly improved from last year? How is this team vastly improved, because we got a 2nd pairing D? This team could at least have a ton of prospects/picks if we traded those aging vets you mentioned. Instead, we added more aging vets to try to compete for a playoff spot. That didn't go so well last year. You say you want a rebuild and then complain that Benning hasn't been able to make us a playoff team in 2 years. You can't have it both ways. You know exactly what I meant. Our cupboard was bare. We had a couple prospects and that's it. Now we have a cupboard full of potential. We have only a handful of players from the Stanley Cup run team in 2011. Benning has gotten rid of all but a few key veterans that are there to teach the young guys. Please explain who all these aging veterans are that we added to the team last year. The only one I know of was Prust and that was for a specific situation we all know about. The difference between you and Benning is that you want to get all the draft picks possible, trade every available asset we have and hope we find our team through the draft whereas Benning wants to build a team of players who already have experience AND have the potential to be better as well as using the draft to improve our prospect pool with the picks we do have. I know which route most of us would choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Mattrek said: You say you want a rebuild and then complain that Benning hasn't been able to make us a playoff team in 2 years. You can't have it both ways. You know exactly what I meant. Our cupboard was bare. We had a couple prospects and that's it. Now we have a cupboard full of potential. We have only a handful of players from the Stanley Cup run team in 2011. Benning has gotten rid of all but a few key veterans that are there to teach the young guys. Please explain who all these aging veterans are that we added to the team last year. The only one I know of was Prust and that was for a specific situation we all know about. The difference between you and Benning is that you want to get all the draft picks possible, trade every available asset we have and hope we find our team through the draft whereas Benning wants to build a team of players who already have experience AND have the potential to be better as well as using the draft to improve our prospect pool with the picks we do have. I know which route most of us would choose. Building a team needs to be done by drafting well. Part of doing that is keeping your first round picks. Also through trades and UFA's. It is called being balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 7 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: No, I don't expect this team to be competitive. The management expects it to be competitive. I expect this team to be garbage, which is why I wanted a rebuild. Also, no prospects? Horvat and Hutton weren't prospects? They're arguably the two best young players on the team. Vastly improved from last year? How is this team vastly improved, because we got a 2nd pairing D? This team could at least have a ton of prospects/picks if we traded those aging vets you mentioned. Instead, we added more aging vets to try to compete for a playoff spot. That didn't go so well last year. We gave up nothing for Miller and Vrbata except cash....The only aging vet that was added was Brandon Prust,where Benning bled a precious 5th round draft pick (For all we know, that draft pick wasn't even for Prust,..more an enticement for Marc Bergevin to take Kassian off of our hands). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By sea and land Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Benning is already the best GM this franchise has ever seen, with all due respect to the Big Irish man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 14 hours ago, Mattrek said: You say you want a rebuild and then complain that Benning hasn't been able to make us a playoff team in 2 years. You can't have it both ways. You know exactly what I meant. Our cupboard was bare. We had a couple prospects and that's it. Now we have a cupboard full of potential. Potential to do what? Our prospects overall are average. We have 0 blue chip prospects. Nobody that looks like they will be good 1st liners. Nobody in the system that looks like a #1 D. Also, I never complained about not making the playoffs. I want high picks. Not wasted years getting spanked in the 1st round. This team is neither stockpiling picks or top end prospects, nor is it improving on the ice let alone winning any playoff games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted June 7, 2016 Author Share Posted June 7, 2016 On June 5, 2016 at 11:25 PM, CanadianRugby said: Also, I never complained about not making the playoffs. I want high picks. Not wasted years getting spanked in the 1st round. This team is neither stockpiling picks or top end prospects, nor is it improving on the ice let alone winning any playoff games. If you think we have no "blue chip" prospects then I really have no words left to say. How anyone can say Boeser and Demko at bare minimum aren't blue chip potential prospects is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that many prospects start out looking terrible, but once they learn the system and have the right support can blossom into blue chip pieces. You act as if all prospects as they stand right now are all they'll ever stand for, like there's no chance for improvement from the level they're at. I have no idea how you come up with these thoughts. I think it's counterproductive to argue with you anymore, so I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caknuckle Puck Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 On 5/30/2016 at 6:51 AM, WeneedLumme said: Wrong. I can see how you might think that, but you are confusing the haters, trolls and simpletons who unfortunately infest these boards, with actual Canucks fans. For example, when the team addresses a crying need by filling a long-empty gaping void on the team with a very important, valuable, rare and extremely difficult-to-find piece, trading away less valuable and much easier-to-find pieces, the real Canucks fans are of course delighted. The team is obviously significantly better than it was last week, and the many fans who have posted their thoughts following the trade have expressed their joy over this. The posters who have been using whatever pretexts they can manufacture to whine about the trade are obviously not actual Canucks fans. They are just disappointed that they will have less to troll about in the future, and they feel the need to vent their outrage that JB has dared to improve the team. No I'm not confusing anything with anything... its just a fact we have $&!#ty fans look at how some people boo our general manager for not trading miller, or people complaining about trades all the time, this that and other we just have bad fans man... and we have to deal with it cause canucks are our team <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By sea and land Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 It's 10pm on a friday evening on the West Coast and we're 14 days away from the draft. I bet you Trader Jim is still up working the phones right now. The man deserves credit. Best Canuck GM ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 11 minutes ago, By sea and land said: It's 10pm on a friday evening on the West Coast and we're 14 days away from the draft. I bet you Trader Jim is still up working the phones right now. The man deserves credit. Best Canuck GM ever. Way WAY to early to assess Trader Jim. We need to see how Shinker and McCann turn out. How our draft picks progress etc. WE will know in 4-5 yrs what kind of a GM JB was.... is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THERETOOL Posted June 11, 2016 Share Posted June 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, By sea and land said: It's 10pm on a friday evening on the West Coast and we're 14 days away from the draft. I bet you Trader Jim is still up working the phones right now. The man deserves credit. Best Canuck GM ever. and pat rolls in his grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 On 2016-06-04 at 6:08 PM, Alflives said: Holy Crap! That's a lot of picks traded away. This is evidence, we are certainly not rebuilding. Thank goodness JB is so very good at the draft. Added: Horvat 19 Vey 23 Baertschi 22 Etam 23 Virtanen 19 Granlund 23 Hutton 22 Tryanmkin 21 Gudbranson 24 Evidence we are rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Baggins said: Added: Horvat 19 Vey 23 Baertschi 22 Etam 23 Virtanen 19 Granlund 23 Hutton 22 Tryanmkin 21 Gudbranson 24 Evidence we are rebuilding. No, you're wrong! The only way to rebuild is if we're trading for 18 year old draft picks. Right now Benning is an idiot who doesn't know what he's doing *eyeroll* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 8 hours ago, Baggins said: Added: Horvat 19 Vey 23 Baertschi 22 Etam 23 Virtanen 19 Granlund 23 Hutton 22 Tryanmkin 21 Gudbranson 24 Evidence we are rebuilding. I'll correct myself. We are (IMHAO) not rebuilding properly. Where are the elite first line players? Vey, Etem, Granlund, Baer, Dorsett, Pedan are not elite, and never will be. Trading away picks for placeholders is not the proper way to become a Cup level team again. In my opinion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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