Sven Baertschi | LW

[Rob_Zepp]

16 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Actually it is. Some guys are just built to take more abuse without being injured

Some guys are built to take random pucks to the head and BS elbows to the head?    Tell me more.   I played with literally over 500 different players over my time in hockey and against an order of magnitude more and never met such an individual.   Keen to hear about these folk.   

[Rob_Zepp]

6 hours ago, Boudrias said:

When I talk about Baer's durability it is about his injury history. His skill is undeniable but opposing players have to deal with him and physicality whether fair or foul is going to happen. I have no inside knowledge about Baer's long term health prognosis but from a simple observer he looks like one hit away from hanging them up. Like you I hope he shakes this injury string and goes on to a run of success. With some bigger forwards added to the mix maybe Baer can play a little more to the higher slot and still get his chances.  

He is fine with regular hockey physicality.   His injuries have largely been horrible luck.   That tends to balance out.  I seriously doubt he is "one hit away from hanging them up" - could he be one freak puck to the head or one dirty elbow to the head away?   Yup - he and pretty much the entire league.

[Kanukfanatic]

27 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Some guys are built to take random pucks to the head and BS elbows to the head?    Tell me more.   I played with literally over 500 different players over my time in hockey and against an order of magnitude more and never met such an individual.   Keen to hear about these folk.   

You can't be this naive and stubborn. 

 

If you can't think of some guys that are literally much harder to hurt than others then you are just full of it.

 

A normal human, like you, would shrivel up and die if an MMA fighter hit you once in the head.  Yet there are tons of other MMA fighters that can take hits like they are not human.  You don't see this? You seriously can't think of any NHL players than are much tougher than others??  Really? 

 

Then I have nothing more that can try to educate you.  As others say, you think you know more than others and you just don't stop.  You are silly.

 

 

[Alflives]

27 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

He is fine with regular hockey physicality.   His injuries have largely been horrible luck.   That tends to balance out.  I seriously doubt he is "one hit away from hanging them up" - could he be one freak puck to the head or one dirty elbow to the head away?   Yup - he and pretty much the entire league.

I see the problem with Baer is that fir him to be effective he must play in the hard areas.  Green even sat him out for being too perimeter.  But when Baer plays the right way, he gets injured.  

[Rob_Zepp]

26 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You can't be this naive and stubborn. 

 

If you can't think of some guys that are literally much harder to hurt than others then you are just full of it.

 

A normal human, like you, would shrivel up and die if an MMA fighter hit you once in the head.  Yet there are tons of other MMA fighters that can take hits like they are not human.  You don't see this? You seriously can't think of any NHL players than are much tougher than others??  Really? 

 

Then I have nothing more that can try to educate you.  As others say, you think you know more than others and you just don't stop.  You are silly.

 

 

When it comes to "normal" injuries I can agree with you, but not fluke injuries that would hurt ANYONE inclusive of these MAA people you keep bringing up.    

 

The only thing I am full of is incredulity that you think any human can take a puck to the head like Baer did or an elbow to the head like Baer did and shake it off.    

 

Educate me on hockey injuries?   OK - please don't give up.   I am all ears.   Tell me more about hockey injuries and what I don't know about them.   Start with pucks to face and elbows to head.    

[Kanukfanatic]

5 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

When it comes to "normal" injuries I can agree with you, but not fluke injuries that would hurt ANYONE inclusive of these MAA people you keep bringing up.    

 

The only thing I am full of is incredulity that you think any human can take a puck to the head like Baer did or an elbow to the head like Baer did and shake it off.    

 

Educate me on hockey injuries?   OK - please don't give up.   I am all ears.   Tell me more about hockey injuries and what I don't know about them.   Start with pucks to face and elbows to head.    

You are so pompous 

 

You really do not come across as a learned all knowing european hockey scout like you try to get others to believe you are. Weak 

 

50% of your posts just try to denigrate other posters and then you try to come across as all knowing.  

 

Here is a little nugget for you zeppy....it ain't workin 

 

Now go to bed....it is 1am in europe where you say you are.

 

 

 

PS: your pompous posts tire me so I will do both of us a favour and not look at them. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

When it comes to "normal" injuries I can agree with you, but not fluke injuries that would hurt ANYONE inclusive of these MAA people you keep bringing up.    

 

The only thing I am full of is incredulity that you think any human can take a puck to the head like Baer did or an elbow to the head like Baer did and shake it off.    

 

Educate me on hockey injuries?   OK - please don't give up.   I am all ears.   Tell me more about hockey injuries and what I don't know about them.   Start with pucks to face and elbows to head.    

Pucks to heads are going to affect people the same.  Even Chara, a veritable giant, got a broken jaw from a puck.  I think the elbow, or bash to the head is different.  The strength of one’s neck might contribute to the amount of force one can take before getting concussed.  

[Kanukfanatic]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Pucks to heads are going to affect people the same.  Even Chara, a veritable giant, got a broken jaw from a puck.  I think the elbow, or bash to the head is different.  The strength of one’s neck might contribute to the amount of force one can take before getting concussed.  

Don't use common sense with the zepper Alf.  Doesn't work with that "hockey scout"!  

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You are so pompous 

 

You really do not come across as a learned all knowing european hockey scout like you try to get others to believe you are. Weak 

 

50% of your posts just try to denigrate other posters and then you try to come across as all knowing.  

 

Here is a little nugget for you zeppy....it ain't workin 

 

Now go to bed....it is 1am in europe where you say you are.

It is not 1 am where I am right now (in North America, EDT to be precise for work, so just after dinner and in hotel so happy to be educated).   Oh, and the one calling the other one "silly" and "in need of education" kind of loses the ability to use the word "pompous" wouldn't you think?

 

I don't give a rat's behind what you choose to believe or not.   You won't answer a question and you resort to posting like a spoiled child who got caught making up crap and instead of discussing an issue, goes into whine and stamping their feet mode.    

 

Your call, discuss or whine.   Your options are simple:

1. "educate me" on the type of professional hockey players that can take pucks to the head (similar to the one that shattered Baer's jaw) and elbows to the head (similar to the one Baer took from McLeod) as starting points.  
2. whine and stamp your feet again and come up with even better puerile attacks 
3. slink off to where you slink off to and simply acknowledge by doing so that you were wrong

[Rob_Zepp]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Pucks to heads are going to affect people the same.  Even Chara, a veritable giant, got a broken jaw from a puck.  I think the elbow, or bash to the head is different.  The strength of one’s neck might contribute to the amount of force one can take before getting concussed.  

Alf, agree on the puck.   Elbow depends on a number of factors.   The one in particular that Baer took was nasty and given his vulnerable position, put 100 guys in same position and result would not matter much about neck strength etc. as it was that blow not a rebound off the ice or similar.    

 

Baer has not had the best of luck, that is for sure.

[Kanukfanatic]

Now that it is quiet in here and we can have a useful conversation about Baer, I still hope JB can find a trade for him to rid ourselves of some cap and go for another top 6 winger like JB says he wants.

 

With so many teams up against the cap though it probably won't happen until September now.

 

Last year there were only like 4 trades in mid July to end of August....very slow times. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[Kootenay Gold]

50 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Elbow depends on a number of factors.   The one in particular that Baer took was nasty and given his vulnerable position, put 100 guys in same position and result would not matter much about neck strength etc. as it was that blow not a rebound off the ice or similar.    

 

I would tend to disagree with you on this particular point Rob. The resulting severity of the blow may not be the same for all players. Some individuals are more susceptible to hits to the head than others. As an example: If you were to hit, say; Dave Semenko or George Chuvalo (boxer) in the side of the head with exactly the same force and angle of impact and do the same to Sven Baertschi; do you really believe that the outcomes would be the same. I think not. Muhammad Ali tried his best to knock Chuvalo down with hits to the head but was unable to knock him out. Semenko was nicknamed cement head for a reason. He was one tough SOB.

[Rob_Zepp]

4 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I would tend to disagree with you on this particular point Rob. The resulting severity of the blow may not be the same for all players. Some individuals are more susceptible to hits to the head than others. As an example: If you were to hit, say; Dave Semenko or George Chuvalo (boxer) in the side of the head with exactly the same force and angle of impact and do the same to Sven Baertschi; do you really believe that the outcomes would be the same. I think not. Muhammad Ali tried his best to knock Chuvalo down with hits to the head but was unable to knock him out. Semenko was nicknamed cement head for a reason. He was one tough SOB.

KG, I can see that on a lot of hits but I will still agree to disagree with the specific one on Baer in the Nashville game.   Boxers are expecting to get hit as well - if you ran up on the street and elbowed one of those guys in the side of the head (assuming you could run fast enough to get away...) in the way Baer was hit, I am not so sure.   I would totally agree in many other situations.   My point from the start of this "educating" discussion has been that Baer has had exceedingly bad luck and that tends to even out.   I have played with guys who get injured more easily and certainly seen it on other teams or when I now watch a lot of hockey.   However, the hits Baer took to the noggin were not borderline "might or might not injure all people" sort of things.   That puck was brutal.   That elbow was brutal.    I remember seeing a tape of McSorely hitting a Canuck in the head with a stick once.   Same sort of thing.   No way any MMA or similar dudes are getting up from that.   That was how that puck hit Baer.

[Kanukfanatic]

53 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I would tend to disagree with you on this particular point Rob. The resulting severity of the blow may not be the same for all players. Some individuals are more susceptible to hits to the head than others. As an example: If you were to hit, say; Dave Semenko or George Chuvalo (boxer) in the side of the head with exactly the same force and angle of impact and do the same to Sven Baertschi; do you really believe that the outcomes would be the same. I think not. Muhammad Ali tried his best to knock Chuvalo down with hits to the head but was unable to knock him out. Semenko was nicknamed cement head for a reason. He was one tough SOB.

This seems like common sense.

[Kootenay Gold]

I just re-watched the video of Baertschi getting hit in Nashville a couple of times in slow mo and agree that the hit was a very dirty one but still not convinced that others in the same situation would have fared the same. Baertschi did get up and get to the bench but was obviously woozy from the hit. Being hit with the puck, on the other hand, has so many variables to it from a physics point of view that it is near impossible for the fan to determine how bad it was other than the obvious damage it does. many things factor in to the resulting effect: speed of the puck, angle of impact (glancing blow or head on) flat face of the puck or edge and exact location of the impact on the body. In the case of the puck that hit Baer. I would agree that not many if any are going to walk away from that. The elbow hit to the head is a different type of hit altogether in the amount of force that was delivered in the hit

51 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

My point from the start of this "educating" discussion has been that Baer has had exceedingly bad luck and that tends to even out.

I do hope you are right with this evening out comment as he is over due for a break.

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Kootenay Gold

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

This seems like common sense.

And a stronger neck reducing head trauma is supported be recent science.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6037875/

I really hope Baer is working on improving his neck strength.  It could save his career.  

[Kanukfanatic]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And a stronger neck reducing head trauma is supported be recent science.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6037875/

I really hope Baer is working on improving his neck strength.  It could save his career.  

Might wanna ensure that pompous other poster sees this - it would be interesting to see if they once acknowledge they are wrong - I doubt it lol. But I won't see their post anyway.  

 

It refutes their whole made up narrative haha. Probably just continue to have mouth diarrhea and end the post with how uneducated other people are other than them. 

 

Thanks for the link to actual evidence Alf.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Kanukfanatic

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

I would tend to disagree with you on this particular point Rob. The resulting severity of the blow may not be the same for all players. Some individuals are more susceptible to hits to the head than others. As an example: If you were to hit, say; Dave Semenko or George Chuvalo (boxer) in the side of the head with exactly the same force and angle of impact and do the same to Sven Baertschi; do you really believe that the outcomes would be the same. I think not. Muhammad Ali tried his best to knock Chuvalo down with hits to the head but was unable to knock him out. Semenko was nicknamed cement head for a reason. He was one tough SOB.

Are we now suggesting that Baer won't be considered durable enough until he can take a hit to the head like Semenko though? 

[Kootenay Gold]

Just now, aGENT said:

Are we now suggesting that Baer won't be considered durable enough until he can take a hit to the head like Semenko though? 

Not at all... But by the same token .. not all players are built the same. Some players are just naturally built more ruggedly than others. It does not mean that smaller lighter players are less durable. Perfect example of that would be the career of Doug Jarvis. He was what? 5'9 or so and probably only about 175 lbs. Great Iron Man streak of 900+ games.

 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Not at all... But by the same token .. not all players are built the same. Some players are just naturally built more ruggedly than others. It does not mean that smaller lighter players are less durable. Perfect example of that would be the career of Doug Jarvis. He was what? 5'9 or so and probably only about 175 lbs. Great Iron Man streak of 900+ games.

 

Sure. And Theo Fleury  or Rick Rypien would probably have been some of the last people I'd want to piss off.

 

I don't see how any of the shows that Baer isn't 'durable' because he can't take pucks or dirty elbows to the head...