Sven Baertschi | LW

[WeneedLumme]

26 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

The concussion was off a dirty hit, so the injury prone thing is a bit of a misnomer because he was showing flashes of scoring again before that head hit.

His other injuries seemed standard type injuries to come back from but concussions are a whole new ball game.

 

Yeah, you don't need to be injury prone to have concussion issues from dirty head shots.

[Phat Fingers]

On 4/3/2019 at 2:31 AM, -AJ- said:

Baertschi has great energy, but I feel like he's struggling to mesh with Pettersson and Boeser. I'd like to see him be placed on the line with Horvat and Pearson to rekindle his chemistry with Bo.

I didn't see that.  Sven's PPG averaged out over a season was pretty good.  He has the skills to mesh with lots of guys.  Not being in the lineup due to injury wasn't going to help things along and all season I felt Goldy was a stand in till Baer made it back.  

 

Baer is a responsible player and he could fit in with either Bo or EP40.  Pearson could be added to EP40's line for size and a net presence.  

 

I would honestly like to see JV Bo and Baer play together for a bit.  A promising blend of attributes along with two way play.  

 

Start Pearson with Ep40 and Brock.  Provided that health isnt a concern, I would be happy with that top 6 for now.  

[kloubek]

When Sven first arrived I would indeed have considered him a bit soft and not good defensively.  But while he will never be a hard checker or a shutdown guy, he does go into the dirty areas and is now responsible defensively.

 

I feel for the guy as he has had so much bad luck with injury that he hasnt had that much time to find chemistry, play fully healthy, or really hit his stride.

 

For a team that is starved for top six left wingers, I think the last thing we want to do is trade him.  Better to keep him and hope he remains healthy; I can see him potentially being a real strong contributor and a nice compliment to a Bo and Pearson line.

[aGENT]

On 5/18/2019 at 1:29 PM, Slegr said:

If Benning can get anything for Baertschi, I'd prefer to see him move along. He's a nice guy and all, but as a top 6 player, he's too soft, doesn't have enough consistent offense, is injury prone, and is one head hit away from career over. Watching these playoffs, I'm not confident he would make it through. It was nice that we plucked him from Calgary for chump change while we were in beginner rebuild mode, but now is the time to cleanse this team of some softies. I can give free passes to Brock, Pettersson and Horvat for not hitting enough because they're consistently good enough to make up for that.. Baertschi is neither here nor there.

Unfortunately, even with a potential UFA this summer and a strong possibility we take our future top 6 LW'er this draft, we're not yet in a position to be getting rid of one of our few capable top 6 players. Particularly in arguably our least deep position. 

 

Goldobin hasn't remotely stolen a top 6 spot and we're a ways off from having a replacement. By all means two UFA's might change that and/or a trade but until then...

 

Now if we get to that point, I'd have no qualms with trading him (not that he'd return much given his injury/concussion issues). Otherwise, we have him under contract for two more years (which gives us time to find his replacement).

[mll]

On 5/19/2019 at 12:10 AM, Slegr said:

I do acknowledge that compared to someone like Goldobin, Baertschi is much more willing to go into dirty areas. So in that sense, he's not as soft. But I suppose what I meant when I said soft is that his game doesn't really include initiating checks, striking any kind of fear into opposition, etc. He's willing to absorb checks, but there is no sand paper to his game. We already have multiple guys in our top 6 who are similar in that sense, and the big difference to me is that they contribute enough other X factors to allow for it. But I think you need a couple of guys willing to get nasty at times, throw big checks, mix it up, in order to be a real force. Baertschi needs to be a top 6 player to be of any use, but he just isn't consistent enough or have enough X factor to our existing line-up and dilutes our team toughness factor by taking the space of someone who could play with sand paper to balance out the talent / toughness ratio of our top 6. 

Towards the end of the season Green talked about how Baertschi brings skills and the ability to make plays under duress.  He explained that with the team they talk of intensity and hard work, but that you also have to be able to make plays especially at this time of the year.

 

Hard work and never quit is becoming the norm across the league - teams can't win by simply outworking/outskating opponents if they don't have the skills to make plays.

 

Before fast teams were able to get away with less than precise passing because they had the speed to still be 1st to the puck.  With everyone playing just as fast - speed is no longer a separating advantage but the standard to keep up with the rest of the league.

 

Speed is not just skating fast - thinking fast, anticipating plays and playing with precision are all part of playing fast.  Players need to process the situation quickly and make tape-to-tape plays while under pressure or the puck is going the other way.

 

When acquired Baertschi was sent to Utica and talked about how it felt they had the puck 70% of the time and always found a way to enter the zone with possession rather than chip it in.  He felt it was more suited to his game than in Calgary where under Hartley they played dump & chase.

 

The Canucks under Green are now playing dump & chase.  They were 2nd in dump-in rates by mid-February according to NHL Network. That's not really a system that is suited for skilled offensive players.  They prefer to enter the zone with possession and make a play to try and score.

 

A team like NJD talks about how they need to add skills to take the next step, now that they have implemented the right culture.  They have the work ethic and play fast but they don't have enough skills to make plays.  The Canucks are at a similar stage and need to decide what kind of team they are building.

 

Baertschi is not a really a fit in a dump & chase system and is likely to do better on a possession team with guys who can create plays with the puck.

 

He has consistently one of the highest shooting percentage in the league - normal given his goals come from right around the net.  He knows how to get to the net using his smarts.  He has really great hands in tight - that quickness and ability to send pucks in at impossible angles.  

 

He doesn't shoot enough though.  He's mostly trying to catch rebounds here but ideally he moves in those scoring areas as the puck moves in. A more skilled team would have guys that can play give-and-go with him and create plays to get the puck in those scoring areas.

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by mll

[Boudrias]

On 5/24/2019 at 11:46 PM, mll said:

Towards the end of the season Green talked about how Baertschi brings skills and the ability to make plays under duress.  He explained that with the team they talk of intensity and hard work, but that you also have to be able to make plays especially at this time of the year.

 

Hard work and never quit is becoming the norm across the league - teams can't win by simply outworking/outskating opponents if they don't have the skills to make plays.

 

Before fast teams were able to get away with less than precise passing because they had the speed to still be 1st to the puck.  With everyone playing just as fast - speed is no longer a separating advantage but the standard to keep up with the rest of the league.

 

Speed is not just skating fast - thinking fast, anticipating plays and playing with precision are all part of playing fast.  Players need to process the situation quickly and make tape-to-tape plays while under pressure or the puck is going the other way.

 

When acquired Baertschi was sent to Utica and talked about how it felt they had the puck 70% of the time and always found a way to enter the zone with possession rather than chip it in.  He felt it was more suited to his game than in Calgary where under Hartley they played dump & chase.

 

The Canucks under Green are now playing dump & chase.  They were 2nd in dump-in rates by mid-February according to NHL Network. That's not really a system that is suited for skilled offensive players.  They prefer to enter the zone with possession and make a play to try and score.

 

A team like NJD talks about how they need to add skills to take the next step, now that they have implemented the right culture.  They have the work ethic and play fast but they don't have enough skills to make plays.  The Canucks are at a similar stage and need to decide what kind of team they are building.

 

Baertschi is not a really a fit in a dump & chase system and is likely to do better on a possession team with guys who can create plays with the puck.

 

He has consistently one of the highest shooting percentage in the league - normal given his goals come from right around the net.  He knows how to get to the net using his smarts.  He has really great hands in tight - that quickness and ability to send pucks in at impossible angles.  

 

He doesn't shoot enough though.  He's mostly trying to catch rebounds here but ideally he moves in those scoring areas as the puck moves in. A more skilled team would have guys that can play give-and-go with him and create plays to get the puck in those scoring areas.

 

I would not argue against Baer's skill. The issue that surrounds him is his durability. If nothing else this year's CUP play has emphasized the physical side of CUP play which I would argue rarely shows itself in regular season games. I suggest that BAer would not survive such play and therefore should be moved for some kind of return. If his history was not as bad as it is I might think differently.  

[HKSR]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:47 AM, Boudrias said:

I would not argue against Baer's skill. The issue that surrounds him is his durability. If nothing else this year's CUP play has emphasized the physical side of CUP play which I would argue rarely shows itself in regular season games. I suggest that BAer would not survive such play and therefore should be moved for some kind of return. If his history was not as bad as it is I might think differently.  

Agreed.  Baertschi is the guy I think that needs to be moved in packaged upgrade.  We need what he brings, but with more size and strength.  If Baertschi and Tanev/Hutton packaged together can bring that upgraded replacement, then GMJB needs to do it.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Agreed.  Baertschi is the guy I think that needs to be moved in packaged upgrade.  We need what he brings, but with more size and strength.  If Baertschi and Tanev/Hutton packaged together can bring that upgraded replacement, then GMJB needs to do it.

Loui + Baer for Lucic + Poolparty?

[dpn1]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Loui + Baer for Lucic + Poolparty?

I love the Poolparty one Alf. 

[kloubek]

On 6/12/2019 at 12:38 PM, HKSR said:

Agreed.  Baertschi is the guy I think that needs to be moved in packaged upgrade.  We need what he brings, but with more size and strength.

I don't agree, actually. If he plays on a line with Bo and Pearson, that line has plenty of size and strength. He isn't against getting into the dirty areas either and if he can stay healthy for the whole season (which may be unlikely) I actually believe he is capable of around 50 points. This is based on his ppg trajectory prior to his latest concussion issues, combined with Horvat's continued improvement and seemingly increasing chemistry with Pearson.

 

The obvious question is whether or not his concussion issues will be a factor going forward or not, but given his limited trade value right now we might as well give it a shot.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, kloubek said:

I don't agree, actually. If he plays on a line with Bo and Pearson, that line has plenty of size and strength. He isn't against getting into the dirty areas either and if he can stay healthy for the whole season (which may be unlikely) I actually believe he is capable of around 50 points. This is based on his ppg trajectory prior to his latest concussion issues, combined with Horvat's continued improvement and seemingly increasing chemistry with Pearson.

 

The obvious question is whether or not his concussion issues will be a factor going forward or not, but given his limited trade value right now we might as well give it a shot.

When Baer plays how Green wants him to, he’s actually quite effective.  I could see him being very successful with Bo and Pearson.  If Baer doesn’t take that spot then Goldy or Jake might get it.  

[kloubek]

I'd be more than thrilled if Virtanen became legit enough to play a 2w role but I have serious doubts.  I still feel he will be our elite 3rd liner as Horvat is our 2c. If he can, that would be amazing.

 

I also don't see the 2nd line as ideal for Goldy either.  If he is to be successful it will be with skilled players. 

 

But really, I think Baer will be fine and surprise some people this coming season.

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

I don't agree, actually. If he plays on a line with Bo and Pearson, that line has plenty of size and strength. He isn't against getting into the dirty areas either and if he can stay healthy for the whole season (which may be unlikely) I actually believe he is capable of around 50 points. This is based on his ppg trajectory prior to his latest concussion issues, combined with Horvat's continued improvement and seemingly increasing chemistry with Pearson.

 

The obvious question is whether or not his concussion issues will be a factor going forward or not, but given his limited trade value right now we might as well give it a shot.

The problem is, he's not strong enough or big enough to play in those dirty areas consistently.  His concussion issues also limit the amount of games he plays per season.  Hence, we need what he brings, but with more size and strength.  To be honest, I think GMJB did upgrade on Baertschi without actually replacing him by acquiring JT Miller.

[goog16]

I like Baertschi and what he brings to the team but the poor guy is 1 hit away from retirement...

[Kanukfanatic]

If JB could trade Baer and somehow sign an upgrade UFA I would do it. I like Baer but he is kinda glass like just like Tanev.  We need guys that play the whole season in top  positions just like we do in top 4 D positions.

[Rob_Zepp]

On 5/26/2019 at 8:47 AM, Boudrias said:

I would not argue against Baer's skill. The issue that surrounds him is his durability.

To be fair, pucks hitting you and people elbowing you in the head are not "durability" issues.   He has had some freakish luck you think would even out and perhaps this year is the start of that.  The guy is uber skilled - was a wonderkid in Junior.

[-AJ-]

I get the feeling that Baertschi has made a career of proving people wrong and will look to continue that. Year over year I've heard people constantly claim that he's not a top 6 forward. After several years, he's finally pushed through most of the naysayers on that point, but now has to deal with durability claims. Alas, this time it's much less within his control, but I truly hope he can finally play 70+ games and break that 40-point mark.

[Kanukfanatic]

43 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

To be fair, pucks hitting you and people elbowing you in the head are not "durability" issues.   He has had some freakish luck you think would even out and perhaps this year is the start of that.  The guy is uber skilled - was a wonderkid in Junior.

Actually it is. Some guys are just built to take more abuse without being injured nearly as much as other guys that take the same amount of abuse.

 

I am sure you can think of some small guys that have taken just about as much abuse as Baer but just seem to keep on moving along.

 

All you need to do is look at any boxer or MMA fighter.  Some of those guys take poundings that regular people would just lay down and die from.  Some guys just naturally can take hits without suffering the immediate effects like normal people. It doesn't mean they won't feel it down the road (months or years) but that is the reality.

[J-P]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

To be fair, pucks hitting you and people elbowing you in the head are not "durability" issues.   He has had some freakish luck you think would even out and perhaps this year is the start of that.  The guy is uber skilled - was a wonderkid in Junior.

That’s true to some degree, but he’s also had issues like a neck injury when going to the net and getting hit, so unfortunately I think it’s a little bit of both bad luck and lack of durability. Makes me uncomfortable to think about him taking more heavy hits, have a feeling he should put his health first and quit. Granted, I’m not a doctor :-)

 

injuries aside, he’s a very good second liner, super skilled and the perfect match for Bo and Pearson, so agree on that. 

[Boudrias]

10 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

To be fair, pucks hitting you and people elbowing you in the head are not "durability" issues.   He has had some freakish luck you think would even out and perhaps this year is the start of that.  The guy is uber skilled - was a wonderkid in Junior.

When I talk about Baer's durability it is about his injury history. His skill is undeniable but opposing players have to deal with him and physicality whether fair or foul is going to happen. I have no inside knowledge about Baer's long term health prognosis but from a simple observer he looks like one hit away from hanging them up. Like you I hope he shakes this injury string and goes on to a run of success. With some bigger forwards added to the mix maybe Baer can play a little more to the higher slot and still get his chances.