Bo Horvat | #53 | C

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

i guess the question is, do you want a 4th line you can actually roll, or do you want to just roll 3 lines with a fourth one seeing 3 min a night and hope they don't become a liability out there...

The problem also revolves around that Horvat, and Vey constantly getting slotted in and out. The fourth line can't really make up its mind whether it wants to be a defensively, checking line with Horvat in, or an energetic, speed offensive line.

Its a revolving door in terms of what the 4th line does. Vey and Horvat really do change the dynamic of what you want that line to do.

[Guest Dasein]

Would you guys be disappointed if he's Manny Malhotra 2.0 prior to the eye injury?

Well to be honest, yes. Not just because we traded Cory Schneider for the pick, but also because of the talent taken after him - Nichushkin, Morrissey, Wennberg, Zadorov, Lazar, Mantha, Bowey, etc.

I think anyone who says no would be lying. I hope we can see him turn into a top 6 center one day, but we may have to settle for a shutdown 3C. Having picked up Shinkaruk at #24 and Cassels (another potential top 6 C) in the 3rd round may ease the pain if Bo pans out as a 3C.

[73 Percent]

Exactly it would be way better to develop him as a career AHLer. Like Rodin, or Schroeder or White or Rai or Sauve or Ellington or shirokov or...

you realize you can just as easily bring someone up to early right? Like Olesz, or brule, or Sheppard, or filitov, or Bailey...

Half of those you've mentioned were drafted in the 4th round a and later. Rodins game didn't translate to north american hockey. Didn't sauce get hit by a car? Didn't rai get in a bad accident? I don't really think that keeping them in the minors hurt their development as much as other reasons. You might as well have said we ruined luc bourdons development...

Edited November 20, 2014 by Gooseberries

[snizzle_]

Junior offensive success does not always equate to Pro level success offensively.

Although I'm not a fan of wasting him around for less than 8 minutes a game, but sniping goals past a junior goalie won't refine his offensive skills. Learning to play the pro game and work even harder to score against harder competition is better. He has already shown that he can put points up i Junior, but once you get to the NHL its a whole different realm and way to figure how to beat goalies who are much better trained, technically sound and etc.

Actually, I kind of disagree.

It is very unlikely that a player that puts up points in the NHL was not a prolific scorer in Junior; it is just a fact of the matter that a scorer in Junior will translate better to a scorer in the bigs than someone who is not.

Obviously just because you show a high point total in Junior doesn't automatically make you a NHL scorer, but if you show progression through the AHL as a scorer than you can project them being a scorer sometime in the NHL. To be a prolific AHL scorer, you tend to be one of the best offensive junior players.

Edited November 20, 2014 by junglesniper

[Tiger-Hearted]

Well to be honest, yes. Not just because we traded Cory Schneider for the pick, but also because of the talent taken after him - Nichushkin, Morrissey, Wennberg, Zadorov, Lazar, Mantha, Bowey, etc.

I think anyone who says no would be lying. I hope we can see him turn into a top 6 center one day, but we may have to settle for a shutdown 3C. Having picked up Shinkaruk at #24 and Cassels (another potential top 6 C) in the 3rd round may ease the pain if Bo pans out as a 3C.

I mentioned this in the Cole Cassels thread that Cassels could and I mean COULD be the sleeper pick in the '13 draft. Both he and McCann have 1C potential, which could make Horvat no better than a 3C.

If BoHo can still develop his offensive ability so he can contribute on the 3rd line, that won't be such a bad thing. I also see BoHo becoming more of an offensive player in the playoffs than in the regular season down the road. His defensive game and maturity is tailor-made for playoff hockey.

Having pre-eye injury Malhotra available after Kesler got hurt in the SJ series might have made a slight difference against Boston. That's why I'm not all that worried about BoHo if he indeed becomes Malhotra 2.0 with perhaps a better scoring touch.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Tiger-Hearted

[RWMc1]

No I really don't.

The guy is getting a shot in the NHL at 18 years old... he shouldn't be playing 19 minutes a game. He is learning a ton from being around pros, practicing with them, and getting used to the speed of the game. We need to stop focusing so much on his number of minutes in his first six NHL games.

Why do we "need" to stop focusing on his usage by our coach. There is a good chance that we have players in Utica that could play unsheltered minutes. Why does he get consideration over them? The reason is simple; he is getting a taste of the NHL and he is being shown first-hand which parts of his game needs work. He will be loaned to the Junior program and will probably get sent down after the tournament. Why is that such a bad thing?

[Dekey Pete]

Why do we "need" to stop focusing on his usage by our coach. There is a good chance that we have players in Utica that could play unsheltered minutes. Why does he get consideration over them? The reason is simple; he is getting a taste of the NHL and he is being shown first-hand which parts of his game needs work. He will be loaned to the Junior program and will probably get sent down after the tournament. Why is that such a bad thing?

The only way that is happening is if someone in the top nine gets injured or stops playing. All our call-ups so far from Utica have played sheltered minutes, barring maybe Jensen but he already has NHL experience, so I don't know where you get that idea. What I'm getting at is that people are saying "he gets 20 minutes in Junior, and 8 minutes in NHL, so junior is the better place for him". It is not that simple, and you basically support my statement afterwards anyways. He is being put around NHL pros, practices, training etc.... all very important to his development.

He will be loaned to a junior program? Is that you Jim Benning?

[Guest Dasein]

People do not feed the troll!

[Guest Dasein]

I mentioned this in the Cole Cassels thread that Cassels could and I mean COULD be the sleeper pick in the '13 draft. Both he and McCann have 1C potential, which could make Horvat no better than a 3C.

If BoHo can still develop his offensive ability so he can contribute on the 3rd line, that won't be such a bad thing. I also see BoHo becoming more of an offensive player in the playoffs than in the regular season down the road. His defensive game and maturity is tailor-made for playoff hockey.

Having pre-eye injury Malhotra available after Kesler got hurt in the SJ series might have made a slight difference against Boston. That's why I'm not all that worried about BoHo if he indeed becomes Malhotra 2.0 with perhaps a better scoring touch.

It's nice that you think Cassels and McCann have 1C potential, but you are severely underselling Horvat.

When you compare Horvat's draft year stats (61 points in 67 games) to McCann's (62 points in 64 games), they are not that far off. Then there's what Bo did in the playoffs that year, which was phenomenal. Cassels was behind Jenner and Laughton and so it's not fair to compare his draft year production to the two above.

When you compare Horvat's draft+1 year stats (74 points in 54 games - 1.37PPG) to Cassels' (73 points in 61 games - 1.20PPG), there is no reason to think that Cassels has a higher upside than Horvat offensively, as Horvat had a better year. McCann so far in his draft+1 year has 16 points in 12 games, which is around 1.33PPG, and also slightly lower than Bo's (granted - he's had mono).

Since Bo has yet to play a game in the OHL this year, we don't know what his draft+2 year looks like, whereas Cassels has looked rather impressive. Still, we don't know if Bo would be outproducing Cassels or not if he had been sent back. I don't see any reason to think that Cassels has 1C potential but that Horvat doesn't when all Bo has done so far is outproduce him at the same level year in and year out.

The same goes for McCann - he's unproven. He does have a blazing shot and speed that Horvat doesn't, but he still has to put it together. We need to see him outproduce Bo's 1.37PPG in his draft+1 year to at least justify saying McCann's upside is higher than Bo's. And to add, Bo made Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old - let's see if McCann can do the same.

I do think McCann has a higher upside than Bo as well, but he needs to prove it. As for Cassels, it's a nice surprise, but I wouldn't say he's leaped Bo as of yet since Bo hasn't had a chance to show what he's got in juniors as a 19 year old.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Dasein

[RWMc1]

The only way that is happening is if someone in the top nine gets injured or stops playing. All our call-ups so far from Utica have played sheltered minutes, barring maybe Jensen but he already has NHL experience, so I don't know where you get that idea. What I'm getting at is that people are saying "he gets 20 minutes in Junior, and 8 minutes in NHL, so junior is the better place for him". It is not that simple, and you basically support my statement afterwards anyways. He is being put around NHL pros, practices, training etc.... all very important to his development.

He will be loaned to a junior program? Is that you Jim Benning?

A junior program!!! Do you even know what you are talking about. Every year there is something called The World Juniors. Most hockey fans are aware of this. Guess what? Bo is already on their roster. Linden, Benning and Willie have all said at one point or another that they want him to have that experience. I'll take their words over yours every time.

[Dekey Pete]

A junior program!!! Do you even know what you are talking about. Every year there is something called The World Juniors. Most hockey fans are aware of this. Guess what? Bo is already on their roster. Linden, Benning and Willie have all said at one point or another that they want him to have that experience. I'll take their words over yours every time.

My bad, I didn't see the word tournament in there, thought you were referring to his London Knights team. Congratulations on picking that piece out!

[Amish Rake Fighter]

Would you guys be disappointed if he's Manny Malhotra 2.0 prior to the eye injury?

Interesting choice considering Malhotra's history of busting out, getting waived and having to reinvent himself as an elite checking center. Manny's always had stone hands at the highest level so I'd be disappointed with that amount of offensive talent.

I'd be happier with Mike Peca, Jarret Stoll or John Madden

Edited November 20, 2014 by Amish Rake Fighter

[aGENT]

So much panic at the disco...

[RWMc1]

A junior program!!! Do you even know what you are talking about. Every year there is something called The World Juniors. Most hockey fans are aware of this. Guess what? Bo is already on their roster. Linden, Benning and Willie have all said at one point or another that they want him to have that experience. I'll take their words over yours every time.

My bad, I didn't see the word tournament in there, thought you were referring to his London Knights team. Congratulations on picking that piece out!

You seem to ignore many valid points that are being made. Congratulations on your hypocrisy!

[Guest Dasein]

Vancouver Canucks ‏@VanCanucks 1h

1 hour ago

Vey and Sbisa expected to play tonight as per coach. #Canucks

[Dekey Pete]

You seem to ignore many valid points that are being made. Congratulations on your hypocrisy!

Not ignoring them, disagreeing with them and stating my reasoning. That is the whole point of a discussion forum, to have discussion. I was wrong to call you Jim Benning earlier, you clearly know all the answers... Trevor Linden?

[Standing_Tall#37]

you realize you can just as easily bring someone up to early right? Like Olesz, or brule, or Sheppard, or filitov, or Bailey...

Half of those you've mentioned were drafted in the 4th round a and later. Rodins game didn't translate to north american hockey. Didn't sauce get hit by a car? Didn't rai get in a bad accident? I don't really think that keeping them in the minors hurt their development as much as other reasons. You might as well have said we ruined luc bourdons development...

Let me ask you this... How many top 6 players in the last 15 years or even top 3 d-men have we developed? Some teams can do this but our development is amongst the worst in the league. Some guys are better developing in the nhl over 3-4 years, starting with little minutes and earning their ice time with experience. Some players bust because they play in leagues they're to good for. You only get good by playing against better players. Better to play up to a level, then get bored by playing down.

Pretty disrespectful thing with Bourdon...you should just admit you hate French people and move on. Making fun of a dead guy is not cool.

[carlweezer]

Its clear as day that Bo needs to be sent back to JR and develop by playing heavy minutes in every situation rather than the 8 min a game he plays here in Van.

Send him back to London for a long playoff run along with a stint with TEAM CANADA WORLD JRs then off to Utica in the spring for the Comet's playoff run..

This doesn't hurt Bo's development nor does it hurt The Canucks as they have players like Vey and MAthias who can play the 4th line C.

On the record tho, I love what I see from this guy. He is a strong ox who is very very dependable and plays a pro game. His numbers may never reach 60 pts a year but he will be a very integral part of our future success.

In the future, We will need to be strong down the middle to compete with the likes of Calgary who has Monahan and Bennett and the Oilers who has RNH and Dr Drai.

Feed the Ox!!!

[Tiger-Hearted]

It's nice that you think Cassels and McCann have 1C potential, but you are severely underselling Horvat.

When you compare Horvat's draft year stats (61 points in 67 games) to McCann's (62 points in 64 games), they are not that far off. Then there's what Bo did in the playoffs that year, which was phenomenal. Cassels was behind Jenner and Laughton and so it's not fair to compare his draft year production to the two above.

When you compare Horvat's draft+1 year stats (74 points in 54 games - 1.37PPG) to Cassels' (73 points in 61 games - 1.20PPG), there is no reason to think that Cassels has a higher upside than Horvat offensively, as Horvat had a better year. McCann so far in his draft+1 year has 16 points in 12 games, which is around 1.33PPG, and also slightly lower than Bo's (granted - he's had mono).

Since Bo has yet to play a game in the OHL this year, we don't know what his draft+2 year looks like, whereas Cassels has looked rather impressive. Still, we don't know if Bo would be outproducing Cassels or not if he had been sent back. I don't see any reason to think that Cassels has 1C potential but that Horvat doesn't when all Bo has done so far is outproduce him at the same level year in and year out.

The same goes for McCann - he's unproven. He does have a blazing shot and speed that Horvat doesn't, but he still has to put it together. We need to see him outproduce Bo's 1.37PPG in his draft+1 year to at least justify saying McCann's upside is higher than Bo's. And to add, Bo made Team Canada for the WJC as an 18 year old - let's see if McCann can do the same.

I do think McCann has a higher upside than Bo as well, but he needs to prove it. As for Cassels, it's a nice surprise, but I wouldn't say he's leaped Bo as of yet since Bo hasn't had a chance to show what he's got in juniors as a 19 year old.

I do agree that BoHo's numbers with London would be very interesting if he got sent back. He does have strong offensive ability.

As for Cassels, he was playing on the third line for, at least, most of his draft year. If Cassels had played in the top 6 that season, he possibly could have been a first round pick.

His draft year totals were 64GP-15G-28A-43Pts(as a 3C).

Horvat's draft year totals were 67GP-33G-28A-61Pts(as a 1C).

Love both prospects. Not that I'm underselling Horvat but I do feel that Cassels is being undersold here.

[RWMc1]

A junior program!!! Do you even know what you are talking about. Every year there is something called The World Juniors. Most hockey fans are aware of this. Guess what? Bo is already on their roster. Linden, Benning and Willie have all said at one point or another that they want him to have that experience. I'll take their words over yours every time.

Not ignoring them, disagreeing with them and stating my reasoning. That is the whole point of a discussion forum, to have discussion. I was wrong to call you Jim Benning earlier, you clearly know all the answers... Trevor Linden?

So you disagree with the fact that Linden, Benning, and Desjardin all stated that they would like Bo to have the World Junior experience? Do you also disagree with the fact that Horvat is already listed on the World Junior roster? Or are just another liar?