Erik Gudbranson | #44 | D

[aGENT]

49 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

 

 

I think he is entitled to  1st line D-money and his camp will be foolish not to demand term and money. 

And thats ok.

Personally, i think 1D pay scale starts at $5M. Goes up to ~ 8M range. There are teams out there giving 1D time and money to 5-ish million dollars per.

 

IMO, Guddy would probably be looking at 4.5-5M for 6 years. And i'd say he is worth every penny when he is on the ice. 

I see him in a bit of 'Willie Mitchell money' zone and it lines up IMO. 
 

I think you're a bit out of touch with present day pay scale.

 

A true 1D presently starts at $7m minimum and likely closer to $8m in today's dollars.

 

A solid, 2nd pair D (which Gudbranson is IMO) would likely be in the $4-$5.5 range depending on ability/intangibles etc.

 

A #2 D falling largely between those two.

[canuckistani]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think you're a bit out of touch with present day pay scale.

 

A true 1D presently starts at $7m minimum and likely closer to $8m in today's dollars.

 

A solid, 2nd pair D (which Gudbranson is IMO) would likely be in the $4-$5.5 range depending on ability/intangibles etc.

 

A #2 D falling largely between those two.

A true 1D is the guy who handles top minutes for his team while having par or better performance. 

This means, Edler is/was a true 1D. 

What you are describing, are high end 1D.  I hope you realize that 1D doesnt just mean 'Doughty/Keith/Lidsrom/Chara' zone- they are ELITE 1D. 

[-AJ-]

15 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think you're a bit out of touch with present day pay scale.

 

A true 1D presently starts at $7m minimum and likely closer to $8m in today's dollars.

 

A solid, 2nd pair D (which Gudbranson is IMO) would likely be in the $4-$5.5 range depending on ability/intangibles etc.

 

A #2 D falling largely between those two.

Agreed. I'd like to sign Guddy for about $4.5M per, but I could see him demanding more like $5M, which is a bit much IMO. We'll see how it goes.

[Vinny in Vancouver]

15 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It would be a worthwhile exercise for those interested in compiling statistics, to attend a game and determine based on the name on the back of the jersey being worn in the stands, which players are preferred, how demographics break down based on each player.

 

I personally don't see looks factoring a huge amount in to a hockey player's new contract, not nearly as much as say an actor or even a basketball or soccer player, where helmets and padding wouldn't be a factor in obscuring the individual.

Good points. That said:

• a friend of mine who has been a hockey fan since he was in diapers keeps telling me that the reason why hockey players are not allowed to wear cages (even though it will probably prolong their teeth and careers) because the NHL wants to market the hockey players' faces
• given player A and player B with similar production but player A is better looking or has more charisma, etc.; team and NHL will use player A more for their ads

A lot of hockey players are quite vain about their hair. That may be just to get dates, but I suspect they know that there's marketability involved in it.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Good points. That said:

• a friend of mine who has been a hockey fan since he was in diapers keeps telling me that the reason why hockey players are not allowed to wear cages (even though it will probably prolong their teeth and careers) because the NHL wants to market the hockey players' faces
• given player A and player B with similar production but player A is better looking or has more charisma, etc.; team and NHL will use player A more for their ads

A lot of hockey players are quite vain about their hair. That may be just to get dates, but I suspect they know that there's marketability involved in it.

True enough.  Many (almost all really) keep their helmets off during team warm up to show off their hair.

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

A true 1D is the guy who handles top minutes for his team while having par or better performance. 

This means, Edler is/was a true 1D. 

What you are describing, are high end 1D.  I hope you realize that 1D doesnt just mean 'Doughty/Keith/Lidsrom/Chara' zone- they are ELITE 1D. 

Someone get the NHL defenseman tier chart, so we can settle this, once and for all!

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

A true 1D is the guy who handles top minutes for his team while having par or better performance. 

This means, Edler is/was a true 1D. 

What you are describing, are high end 1D.  I hope you realize that 1D doesnt just mean 'Doughty/Keith/Lidsrom/Chara' zone- they are ELITE 1D. 

Nope. A 1D is a 1D and they are paid accordingly. As are 2D, 3D, 4D etc.

 

Edler is a 2D (trending to a 3D), his place in our depth chart has no bearing on that anymore than PK Subban's place on Nashville making him a 3 or 4D because of where he sits in their depth chart.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Good points. That said:

• a friend of mine who has been a hockey fan since he was in diapers keeps telling me that the reason why hockey players are not allowed to wear cages (even though it will probably prolong their teeth and careers) because the NHL wants to market the hockey players' faces
• given player A and player B with similar production but player A is better looking or has more charisma, etc.; team and NHL will use player A more for their ads

A lot of hockey players are quite vain about their hair. That may be just to get dates, but I suspect they know that there's marketability involved in it.

Fair enough. Crazy that the NHL would prevent players from wearing cages. Wow.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Nope. A 1D is a 1D and they are paid accordingly. As are 2D, 3D, 4D etc.

 

Edler is a 2D (trending to a 3D), his place in our depth chart has no bearing on that anymore than PK Subban's place on Nashville making him a 3 or 4D because of where he sits in their depth chart.

 

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Someone get the NHL defenseman tier chart, so we can settle this, once and for all!

 

[canuckistani]

Just now, aGENT said:

Nope. A 1D is a 1D and they are paid accordingly. As are 2D, 3D, 4D etc. [/quote]

Thats your opinion. In my Opinion, there are nearly 30 1Ds in the league and their lowest salary tends to be in the 5M zone. 

 

 

Just now, aGENT said:

 

Edler is a 2D (trending to a 3D), his place in our depth chart has no bearing on that anymore than PK Subban's place on Nashville making him a 3 or 4D because of where he sits in their depth chart.

First, PK never sits at 3 or 3D level in any team. Not in terms of minutes or match-ups. 

And as i said, your definition of 1D is nice for a fan, pity thats not how real world negotiations & valuations work. 

[canuckistani]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

True enough.  Many (almost all really) keep their helmets off during team warm up to show off their hair.

Personally, i'd say 99% people leave their helmets off, because it feels nicer for your head to be uncovered. Especially when you are about to spend 3 hrs with mostly helmets on, having the feeling of itchy & sweaty scalp that you can't get to, at the back of your mind while sitting on bench.

This is also why players take off their helmets almost immediately after the game and give interviews on live tv with their hair looking like 'bed hair' after just being liberated. A vain man would spend atleast a couple of minutes straightening out his hair before going on national tv live.

 

[-AJ-]

4 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

A true 1D is the guy who handles top minutes for his team while having par or better performance. 

This means, Edler is/was a true 1D. 

What you are describing, are high end 1D.  I hope you realize that 1D doesnt just mean 'Doughty/Keith/Lidsrom/Chara' zone- they are ELITE 1D. 

At Edler's prime, I'd say he was just barely a 1D. Currently, he's more like a 3/4 D with parts of his game closer to a #2 D. I don't think receiving top minutes automatically classifies one as a #1D, especially if you don't play to the standard of a #1D. Edler was signed to a $5M deal years ago accordingly; when he was about a #2 D man. 

 

When looking at the top 31 NHL cap hits for defensemen, at 31st spot is a hit of $5.5M per year. But it's always worth considering that some contracts in that list are "old" and were signed a while back. Also consider that the list is comprised partially of names like Andrej Sekera, Matt Niskanen, Jeff Petry, and Colton Parayko, names that aren't often considered #1 defensemen. Parayko, who is probably considered by most to be a solid #2 guy, is a good example of recent standards, being signed recently to a 5-year deal at $5.5M per year.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

Personally, i'd say 99% people leave their helmets off, because it feels nicer for your head to be uncovered. Especially when you are about to spend 3 hrs with mostly helmets on, having the feeling of itchy & sweaty scalp that you can't get to, at the back of your mind while sitting on bench.

This is also why players take off their helmets almost immediately after the game and give interviews on live tv with their hair looking like 'bed hair' after just being liberated. A vain man would spend atleast a couple of minutes straightening out his hair before going on national tv live.

 

And putting their teeth in?

[canuckistani]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

At Edler's prime, I'd say he was just barely a 1D. Currently, he's more like a 3/4 D with parts of his game closer to a #2 D. I don't think receiving top minutes automatically classifies one as a #1D, especially if you don't play to the standard of a #1D. Edler was signed to a $5M deal years ago accordingly; when he was about a #2 D man. 

Except i do think when one is being matched up day in, day out, with the best of the opposition and ending up at or near par performance, one is performing to the standard of a 1D.

Again, what 'standard' you speak of, is dominance. Such dominance is seen from maybe 10 defencemen in the league, if that. And that is high end, elite 1D. Not your run of the mill, average 1D. For an average/low end 1D, i expect them to factor on the power play, end up eating 22-25 minutes per night and end up somewhere in the 'better than -10/-15' zone. That right there, is your average, run-of-the-mill, 1D performance. 

 

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

When looking at the top 31 NHL cap hits for defensemen, at 31st spot is a hit of $5.5M per year. But it's always worth considering that some contracts in that list are "old" and were signed a while back. Also consider that the list is comprised partially of names like Andrej Sekera, Matt Niskanen, Jeff Petry, and Colton Parayko, names that aren't often considered #1 defensemen. Parayko, who is probably considered by most to be a solid #2 guy, is a good example of recent standards, being signed recently to a 5-year deal at $5.5M per year.

Indeed, which is why i said, typical 1D salary starts from 5M as the floor.

 

[-AJ-]

6 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

 

Indeed, which is why i said, typical 1D salary starts from 5M as the floor.

 

$5.5M. But even, then like I said, many contracts are "old". Inflation results in older contracts being cheaper. Take a contract like Erik Karlsson's for instance. His hit is $6.5M, signed in 2012, but we all know that if his contract were ripped up and needed to be re-done, he'd get closer to $10M. Rip up everyone's contract and re-do them today and I think you'll find that the floor for a #1 D is even higher than $5.5M.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, canuckistani said:

Thats your opinion. In my Opinion, there are nearly 30 1Ds in the league and their lowest salary tends to be in the 5M zone. 

 

 

First, PK never sits at 3 or 3D level in any team. Not in terms of minutes or match-ups. 

And as i said, your definition of 1D is nice for a fan, pity thats not how real world negotiations & valuations work. 

Player comparisons are actually used in salary negotiations and nobody in that room is confused as to what an actual 1D is and no, it's not the 31D who play the most minutes on the individual teams  

 

And sorry, my mistake, according to last year's TOI, PK was their #2D, a whopping 27 seconds ATOI per game ahead of Ellis and 56 seconds more than Ekholm. So clearly by your definition, Subban is a #2D and Ellis and Ekholm are mere #3 and #4D's 

 

[smithers joe]

he should get a good contract of what he is worth. what that is will be determined after this season. i wish him well.

[Alflives]

Just now, smithers joe said:

he should get a good contract of what he is worth. what that is will be determined after this season. i wish him well.

Do you think we might need to pay him more than Florida would, considering the tax law differences?  Maybe we will need to pay him more than he's actually worth to keep him?

[canuckistani]

Just now, aGENT said:

Player comparisons are actually used in salary negotiations and nobody in that room is confused as to what an actual 1D is and no, it's not the 31D who play the most minutes on the individual teams  

 

And sorry, my mistake, according to last year's TOI, PK was their #2D, a whopping 27 seconds ATOI per game ahead of Ellis and 56 seconds more than Ekholm. So clearly by your definition, Subban is a #2D and Ellis and Ekholm are mere #3 and #4D's 

 

As i said, it also depends on the matchup.

If the 31 1Ds in the league wasnt the comparable used, we'd not see practically every team's 1D making the 5 mil or more range. That salary range exists, because the general consensus to what a 'regular, run of the mill 1D' is, agrees with the way i described it.

 

[canuckistani]

3 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

$5.5M. But even, then like I said, many contracts are "old". Inflation results in older contracts being cheaper. Take a contract like Erik Karlsson's for instance. His hit is $6.5M, signed in 2012, but we all know that if his contract were ripped up and needed to be re-done, he'd get closer to $10M. Rip up everyone's contract and re-do them today and I think you'll find that the floor for a #1 D is even higher than $5.5M.

You think every team will give a defenceman >5.5 mil per year ?