ohmy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: It's his compete level shift to shift, and overall intensity that I fear with this prospect. I do feel like he has improved defensively somewhat but the most important thing is to improve his foot speed. IMO he was beaten wide way too many times from my viewings. Add to the fact there has been reported conditioning issues with him and rumoured attitude issues does not help. And indeed he does have impressive qualities that can make you excited, like his playmaking and vision. When he plays at his best( Game against Cezch in WJC) I have given him praise. Why was he never going to play 25 minutes a night? If he was tracking like a top pairing d-man he should easily be playing at least 24 minutes a night and should not ever be scratched unless if it's because of an injury. I used to think he lacks intensity but then I remembered i thought the same about Tanev but its just his demeanour. So I think the same of Juolevi IMO. I agree those first couple steps could be improved and I think it will. Hes still tracking well and would be playing 20+ if playing on a lesser team like Heiskenens. Thats simply a depth issue. We all saw in the juniors as it went on they played Juolevi more. But I respect your opinion if your not impressed by one of the best under 20 season Liga has ever seen. Or maybe you just feel that way because you see Heiskenen doing well and cant correlate between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 20 minutes ago, Warhippy said: You know who's really impressive Cale Makar. Looks like Dallas missed out http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=178719 Oh wait, sorry is this the Olli Juolevi thread? Man my mistake, I thought we were swinging our junk whinging about other teams' prospects again while down playing ours. Is it too late to talk about Tkachuk? He’s been decent. But Ferraro his teammate who I wanted in the 2nd round has been impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Yes it could very well just be the coaches wanting to give the young guy a rest, but it's tough because we don't know, it's just speculation at this point. Agree with you on his WJHC performances as well. Yeah it would be nice if there was some comment from the coach or something for us to go off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I will need to see reports about this as I've heard none of this at all anywhere in almost 350 pages of talk. As a prospect coming from Hunters Knight's system there is little to no chance he was not conditioned enough to play. As well by most accounts he is one of the most humble people on the ice which was well documented in his player profile during his draft year. As for playing 24-25 minutes a night. The current TOI leader in the NHL is drew doughty with 21 minutes a game of even strength play and roughly 27 minutes a game of total TOI; and there are in fact only 23 players in the entire NHL playing more than 24 minutes a night. He is a rookie in a mens league, expecting him to play 24+ minutes a night while discounting the near record breaking rookie season he has had thus far is questionable. https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?category=ICE+TIME&group=1&time=0 And yes, I do expect him to play 22-25 minutes a night. He is in his draft+2 season and is 6'3 200 lbs. If we want him tracking like a potential top pairing d-man he should be dominating the Liiga right now just like Heiskanen is. Right now he is playing 15-20 minutes in a sheltered second pairing role. Now being scratched in back to back games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I will need to see reports about this as I've heard none of this at all anywhere in almost 350 pages of talk. As a prospect coming from Hunters Knight's system there is little to no chance he was not conditioned enough to play. As well by most accounts he is one of the most humble people on the ice which was well documented in his player profile during his draft year. As for playing 24-25 minutes a night. The current TOI leader in the NHL is drew doughty with 21 minutes a game of even strength play and roughly 27 minutes a game of total TOI; and there are in fact only 23 players in the entire NHL playing more than 24 minutes a night. He is a rookie in a mens league, expecting him to play 24+ minutes a night while discounting the near record breaking rookie season he has had thus far is questionable. https://www.foxsports.com/nhl/stats?category=ICE+TIME&group=1&time=0 Heiskanen is averaging 25 minutes a night as an 18 year old in the same league and has an even higher production rate. Edited January 30, 2018 by ForsbergTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Heiskanen is averaging 25 minutes a night as an 18 year old in the same league and has an even higher production rate. so? they are in different roles. OJ had the best zone exits for Finland in the WJs. Heiskanen has more offensive capability and is used that way. You need both types of D on a team. Edited January 30, 2018 by Jimmy McGill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just one reaction from a Finnish journalist watching today’s game but thought it told a good story. Translates roughly as “can somebody explain why HCTPS is now the worst and slowest hockey team in Finland? And where’s Juolevi?” 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Just one reaction from a Finnish journalist watching today’s game but thought it told a good story. Translates roughly as “can somebody explain why HCTPS is now the worst and slowest hockey team in Finland? And where’s Juolevi?” I haven't watched any of his games but that sounds like maybe a coaching problem to me if its an entire team breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: And yes, I do expect him to play 22-25 minutes a night. He is in his draft+2 season and is 6'3 200 lbs. If we want him tracking like a potential top pairing d-man he should be dominating the Liiga right now just like Heiskanen is. Right now he is playing 15-20 minutes in a sheltered second pairing role. Now being scratched in back to back games. They're tied for points with only a 4 game difference. That is with Heiskanen averaging 7 minutes and 42 seconds more ice time per game. How is that not donimating? There's also only a 10 month difference between them while Heiskanen played all of last year in that league. Again, there's no true "dominating" difference between them. As well, nowhere does it say anything about an attitude or locker room issues. Green demands a very high fitness level, he has actually called out NHL regulars for their fitness levels; so demanding a shade more excellence from a 19 year old kid is not unusual at all and in no way says or shows that Juolevi is out of shape. It's not at all like the Virtanen donut factor we saw last year His being scratched while cause for questioning is not concerning. Hesikanen also was scratched last year in his rookie season. So again, not unusual http://liiga.fi/pelaajat/28843210/heiskanen-miro http://liiga.fi/pelaajat/24479743/juolevi-olli#page 17 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Heiskanen is averaging 25 minutes a night as an 18 year old in the same league and has an even higher production rate. He plays more minutes and also still has mroe offensive zone starts vs Juolevi by the numbers. If his production vs his games played is not comparable or better than OJs that would be cause for concern no? Edited January 30, 2018 by Warhippy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: so? they are in different roles. OJ had the best zone exits for Finland in the WJs. Heiskanen has more offensive capability and is used that way. You need both types of D on a team. So warhippy said it was unrealistic to have a rookie meet this expectations. Heiskanen is currently doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: So warhippy said it was unrealistic to have a rookie meet this expectations. Heiskanen is currently doing it. Umm...no where did I say it was unrealistic. I said discounting the season he's had while expecting more from him is questionable He is a rookie in a mens league, expecting him to play 24+ minutes a night while discounting the near record breaking rookie season he has had thus far is questionable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: Just one reaction from a Finnish journalist watching today’s game but thought it told a good story. Translates roughly as “can somebody explain why HCTPS is now the worst and slowest hockey team in Finland? And where’s Juolevi?” Willie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: He plays more minutes and also still has mroe offensive zone starts vs Juolevi by the numbers. If his production vs his games played is not comparable or better than OJs that would be cause for concern no? No because there’s more to production than zone starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: So warhippy said it was unrealistic to have a rookie meet this expectations. Heiskanen is currently doing it. ah, ok then. I see Miro and OJ as very different styles of D, not sure a direct comparison makes sense. Would love to have both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: No because there’s more to production than zone starts. True enough but Juolevi is producing more points per 60 with less zone starts, less ice time, and not as much powerplay time. Imagine how many points he would have if he was playing 25+ min. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: No because there’s more to production than zone starts. yes, there's TOI as well. With almost 6 to 8 more minutes per game, more PP time, more offensive zone starts, Heiskanens production SHOULD be better and that's without question. If it wasn't comparable or better than OJ's even with playing 3 less games that would be serious cause for concern no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Warhippy said: They're tied for points with only a 4 game difference. That is with Heiskanen averaging 7 minutes and 42 seconds more ice time per game. How is that not donimating? There's also only a 10 month difference between them while Heiskanen played all of last year in that league. Again, there's no true "dominating" difference between them. As well, nowhere does it say anything about an attitude or locker room issues. Green demands a very high fitness level, he has actually called out NHL regulars for their fitness levels; so demanding a shade more excellence from a 19 year old kid is not unusual at all and in no way says or shows that Juolevi is out of shape. It's not at all like the Virtanen donut factor we saw last year His being scratched while cause for questioning is not concerning. Hesikanen also was scratched last year in his rookie season. So again, not unusual http://liiga.fi/pelaajat/28843210/heiskanen-miro http://liiga.fi/pelaajat/24479743/juolevi-olli#page He plays more minutes and also still has mroe offensive zone starts vs Juolevi by the numbers. If his production vs his games played is not comparable or better than OJs that would be cause for concern no? No. Miro Heiskanen is a legitimately dominate player in that league right now. The way he commands play offensively and defensively while logging 25+ minutes as an 18-year-old is excellent. He plays on the top PP, top PK and has to face top lines each night. He has made the Olympic squad. Remember while Juolevi's production is good he is in his D+2 year and is only playing 15-20 minutes a game on the second pairing being sheltered. Heiskanen being a scratch at 17 years old does not justify Juolevi being a scratch at 19 in his Draft+2 year especially now that it's for consecutive games and we know it's not because of an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: No. Miro Heiskanen is a legitimately dominate player in that league right now. The way he commands play offensively and defensively while logging 25+ minutes as an 18-year-old is excellent. He plays on the top PP, top PK and has to face top lines each night. He has made the Olympic squad. Remember while Juolevi's production is good he is in his D+2 year and is only playing 15-20 minutes a game on the second pairing being sheltered. Heiskanen being a scratch at 17 years old does not justify Juolevi being a scratch at 19 in his Draft+2 year especially now that it's for consecutive games and we know it's not because of an injury. Not disagreeing with what you are saying. But do we know his scratch is related to on ice performance? Maybe he walked into practice late wearing a track suit? Edited January 30, 2018 by Darius71 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmy Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said: No. Miro Heiskanen is a legitimately dominate player in that league right now. The way he commands play offensively and defensively while logging 25+ minutes as an 18-year-old is excellent. He plays on the top PP, top PK and has to face top lines each night. He has made the Olympic squad. Remember while Juolevi's production is good he is in his D+2 year and is only playing 15-20 minutes a game on the second pairing being sheltered. Heiskanen being a scratch at 17 years old does not justify Juolevi being a scratch at 19 in his Draft+2 year especially now that it's for consecutive games and we know it's not because of an injury. 2nd line pairing is sheltered minutes? Juolevis production is just good for his age? Those are both false statements. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Dahlin26 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Just now, Darius71 said: Not disagreeing with what you are saying. But do we know his scratch is related to performance? Maybe he walked into practice late wearing a track suit? I mean TPS must not see him performing well enough to stay in the line-up and be a regular if it's not injury related. Hoping Rick Dhaliwal could get a word from Sami Salo about this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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