Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[stawns]

15 hours ago, Vanuckles said:

I like Juolevi, he's a jack of all trades type Dman with top 4 potential. I believe he can play the right side too (I think he was playing RD in Finland). His injuries are definitely a bit concerning because they're the type of injuries that can haunt an athlete for their entire career. People are sleeping on Rathbone, Rathbone can very well develop into a top 4 reliable 2way Dman that can work the PP very well and create chances with his offensive creativity and booming shot. Brisebois is another intriguing player that has top 4 potential as well. Hutton is young and is playing like a top 4 Dman this year imo - or at least close to one. Then there's Tryamkin, who can play the right side but he's another leftie on the backend. The reason I bring this up is because the logjam on lefties while the right side being very barren, I think it would behoove Benning to make a trade for a blue chip rightie prospect (if there are any available). Juolevi still has the top 5 draft pick tag attached to his name, and apart from his injuries he was on a good development path, so if we want a blue chip rightie prospect, we're going to have to give up a blue chip prospect, and I see Juolevi as that guy. We would still be flush with quality young LDs, but it would shore up the right side. Another chip we can use to shore up the right side would be Brisebois. Again he's a good 2way dman but he doesn't have anything that absolutely sets him apart. I think the sooner we get a rightie to develop in our system, the better and we have the trade assets to make that happen.

 

The way I see the depth chart with lefties, and I'm talking long term:

 

Hughes

Juolevi

Rathbone

Tryamkin

Brisebois

Hutton

 

Righties:

Woo

as another poster showed, he actually hasn't missed much time to injuries, outside of this year.

[tas]

17 hours ago, stawns said:

Not that I disagree, but I'm curious about why people put HUghes ahead of OJ on the depth chart?  Strictly injury based?

regardless of either of their respective nhl readiness, hughes leaps over juolevi because he has a completely unique skillset, not only among canucks prospects, but among canucks veterans, too. they need him, and they can afford to accept the mistakes that come with it in order to inject his toolbox and talent into the lineup. 

 

juolevi, on the other hand, doesn't. I believe he'll be a very solid top 4 anchor for the team, but he doesn't bring any unique separating skill. he'll have to develop his game more gradually until he surpasses canucks veterans and takes somebody's spot, whereas hughes gets in by default on the basis that nobody else currently on the team can come close to doing anything even remotely like what he does. 

[stawns]

22 minutes ago, tas said:

regardless of either of their respective nhl readiness, hughes leaps over juolevi because he has a completely unique skillset, not only among canucks prospects, but among canucks veterans, too. they need him, and they can afford to accept the mistakes that come with it in order to inject his toolbox and talent into the lineup. 

 

juolevi, on the other hand, doesn't. I believe he'll be a very solid top 4 anchor for the team, but he doesn't bring any unique separating skill. he'll have to develop his game more gradually until he surpasses canucks veterans and takes somebody's spot, whereas hughes gets in by default on the basis that nobody else currently on the team can come close to doing anything even remotely like what he does. 

Won't matter if he costs more than he gains.  No chance TG is going to reward bad habits.

[tas]

53 minutes ago, stawns said:

Won't matter if he costs more than he gains.  No chance TG is going to reward bad habits.

he won't reward bad habits, but he won't necessarily punish mistakes, either. quinn's issues aren't about bad habits, they're about adapting his game to play against professionals that he won't be able to toy with as easily as he has previous competition. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, tas said:

he won't reward bad habits, but he won't necessarily punish mistakes, either. quinn's issues aren't about bad habits, they're about adapting his game to play against professionals that he won't be able to toy with as easily as he has previous competition. 

I'm pumped for Hughes, don't get me wrong.  I just don't have him ahead of OJ on the depth chart, as he's proven nothing yet and he's got significant holes in his game that need fixing.

[tas]

12 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'm pumped for Hughes, don't get me wrong.  I just don't have him ahead of OJ on the depth chart, as he's proven nothing yet and he's got significant holes in his game that need fixing.

I think what you're seeing is a confident kid who hasn't felt challenged enough by his competition and who isn't playing with players close enough to his level to truly complement his game. he should have turned pro this year. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, tas said:

I think what you're seeing is a confident kid who hasn't felt challenged enough by his competition and who isn't playing with players close enough to his level to truly complement his game. he should have turned pro this year. 

agreed completely, a year in Utica would have been much better for him and he, clearly, would have seen some time in Van as well.

[tas]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

agreed completely, a year in Utica would have been much better for him and he, clearly, would have seen some time in Van as well.

part of me will always wonder if that was the hill trevor linden died on (successfully, with him pushing for michigan, jim and frank pushing for pro).

[Bissurnette]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

as another poster showed, he actually hasn't missed much time to injuries, outside of this year.

He missed a third of his season last year in Finland and almost all of this season with Utica - he only played 18 games. His ratio of games played to games missed is not good in his young career. That's not really up for debate to be honest.

[aGENT]

 

20 hours ago, stawns said:

Not that I disagree, but I'm curious about why people put HUghes ahead of OJ on the depth chart?  Strictly injury based?

'Ahead' probably isn't accurate. OJ's missed a fair amount of development time and will probably need a month or two in Utica playing big minutes just to get back up to speed. He needs reps and not in the fishbowl/pressure cooker of Van IMO. 

 

On the other hand, Hughes has been playing. A lot. And against men as well in college. Including his stint against NHL'ers last year at the World's. He also plays a role that I think most people assume will be more sheltered (offensive starts, PP time etc). So it's easier to slot him in (sheltered) and not because he's 'ahead'. More because he's simply been playing and plays a role expected to be more sheltered.

 

That said, I agree the people putting him on first pair with Edler out of the gate, are out to lunch. I think he'll see 3rd pair 5v5 + PP time and we go from there.

 

It will be very interesting to see what moves are made this summer though and related, who he partners with. Do we sign a Karlsson/Myers? Does he play rights side, paired with say Hutton? Do we trade Hutton? Does he play with Tanev? Do we trade Tanev? There's WAY too many unanswered questions to comment on where or who he plays with IMO.

Edited March 9, 2019 by aGENT

[appleboy]

OJ is still only 20 years old and will probably become a solid D man. I think that most people are just upset because of where he was taken and that a player like Tkachuk has become a star. The organization missed this pick in a big way but that is not saying that OJ is a total right off.

Depending on his health he should be a solid player. 

[Mr.53]

On 3/9/2019 at 12:13 PM, stawns said:

question mark how?  He had an outstanding first year pro in Liiga and was a top pairing, all situations dman in his first year in the AHL.  He's got a lot less question marks than Hughes, who has never played a single pro game, was a lower pick and is a lot smaller.  I think they'll both be great, but don't get why Hughes is the second coming and OJ is a question mark, when he's already proven he's a solid pro.

Because you never know how someone is going to turn out, one, when it comes to the NHL, and two, after long term injuries. Juolevi has had a lot of injuries in his time already.

 

I think he will be fine as with modern medicine and practices returning from injury without much if at all big fall offs in talent is more and more rare. You can't bank on him being great, but I think it's still a good chance. That's why I think he has more value to us than on the trade market. Give him a full season, I think he'll be a fulltime NHLer by the end of the season for sure.

[canucklehead80]

1 hour ago, appleboy said:

OJ is still only 20 years old and will probably become a solid D man. I think that most people are just upset because of where he was taken and that a player like Tkachuk has become a star. The organization missed this pick in a big way but that is not saying that OJ is a total right off.

Depending on his health he should be a solid player. 

I was on the “Draft Tkachuk” bandwagon. MT has shown himself to be a star for years to come, but until we actually get to see OJ for a period of time, it is still too soon to say it was a “missed pick”. OJ has a lot of pressure, but if he turns out to be a very good defenseman as many still think he could be then it will be far from a “missed pick”. If he can recover and be ready for September without a setback, hopefully he continues to trend upward. I actually think Quinn going pro will take some of the spotlight away from OJ. Could be a good thing. A lot of “ifs”, but there’s still time. Many of us want all these good players, and want them all now. It doesn’t happen that way. It takes time, longer for some.

[stawns]

15 minutes ago, canucklehead80 said:

I was on the “Draft Tkachuk” bandwagon. MT has shown himself to be a star for years to come, but until we actually get to see OJ for a period of time, it is still too soon to say it was a “missed pick”. OJ has a lot of pressure, but if he turns out to be a very good defenseman as many still think he could be then it will be far from a “missed pick”. If he can recover and be ready for September without a setback, hopefully he continues to trend upward. I actually think Quinn going pro will take some of the spotlight away from OJ. Could be a good thing. A lot of “ifs”, but there’s still time. Many of us want all these good players, and want them all now. It doesn’t happen that way. It takes time, longer for some.

There's a misconception, intentional or otherwise, that OJ has not been developing, when, in reality, he's been developing into a professional dman very, very well.  Though he's had a cpl injuries, we should all be very happy with his Liiga season, which was outstanding, as well as his excellent first half in Utica.

 

I wanted MT, but I had no issues with OJ and understood why JB picked him in that spot.  He was, and is and elite level prospect who is developing into an excellent pro.

[appleboy]

36 minutes ago, canucklehead80 said:

I was on the “Draft Tkachuk” bandwagon. MT has shown himself to be a star for years to come, but until we actually get to see OJ for a period of time, it is still too soon to say it was a “missed pick”. OJ has a lot of pressure, but if he turns out to be a very good defenseman as many still think he could be then it will be far from a “missed pick”. If he can recover and be ready for September without a setback, hopefully he continues to trend upward. I actually think Quinn going pro will take some of the spotlight away from OJ. Could be a good thing. A lot of “ifs”, but there’s still time. Many of us want all these good players, and want them all now. It doesn’t happen that way. It takes time, longer for some.

I think OJ will be a solid player just not a star. When you pick 7th you want to get a star type player. That is all I am saying. OJ is hopefully a top 4.

I wanted Surgachev or how ever you spell it. I don't think he is a star either. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I think OJ will be a solid player just not a star. When you pick 7th you want to get a star type player. That is all I am saying. OJ is hopefully a top 4.

I wanted Surgachev or how ever you spell it. I don't think he is a star either. 

What constitutes a "star", especially on d?

[appleboy]

To me it is a top pair at the least. Norris trophy candidate..   Elite

I am not suggesting that Hughes is that or will be that , either. I do think that Tkackuk is entering that echelon. Power forward who can produce at a high level is highly sought after. A very rare mix.

Petey has that star potential. 

 

In no way am I suggesting that OJ is a bust or anything like that. He is 20 years old. His injuries are a concern but it just seems to be part of the game these days.

Edited March 11, 2019 by appleboy

[stawns]

10 minutes ago, appleboy said:

To me it is a top pair at the least. Norris trophy candidate..   Elite

I am not suggesting that Hughes is that or will be that , either. I do think that Tkackuk is entering that echelon. Power forward who can produce at a high level is highly sought after. A very rare mix.

Petey has that star potential. 

 

In no way am I suggesting that OJ is a bust or anything like that. He is 20 years old. His injuries are a concern but it just seems to be part of the game these days.

He's just doing his best to fit into the organization seamlessly!

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, appleboy said:

To me it is a top pair at the least. Norris trophy candidate..   Elite

I am not suggesting that Hughes is that or will be that , either. I do think that Tkackuk is entering that echelon. Power forward who can produce at a high level is highly sought after. A very rare mix.

Petey has that star potential. 

 

In no way am I suggesting that OJ is a bust or anything like that. He is 20 years old. His injuries are a concern but it just seems to be part of the game these days.

To me, OJ is going to be an all situations 25+ minute muncher like Edler is.  He doesn't really have holes in his game, and though he might not dazzle, he's likely to be the Canucks go to defenseman for the next 10 years.

 

Personally, I see Hughes as a solid puck mover and pp specialist who has some defensive issues, but whose offensive output outweighs the defensive gaps.  I don't believe he will be the guy you put out on the pk or the go to guy out to defend a lead in the waning mins of games.

 

Together, I think they'll make a heckuva combo though

[Ihatetomatoes]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

To me, OJ is going to be an all situations 25+ minute muncher like Edler is.  He doesn't really have holes in his game, and though he might not dazzle, he's likely to be the Canucks go to defenseman for the next 10 years.

 

Personally, I see Hughes as a solid puck mover and pp specialist who has some defensive issues, but whose offensive output outweighs the defensive gaps.  I don't believe he will be the guy you put out on the pk or the go to guy out to defend a lead in the waning mins of games.

 

Together, I think they'll make a heckuva combo though

I would disagree.

 

He has a massive hole in his game that is caused by slow foot speed. He has trouble containing defenders in a stop start situation. Once up to speed he's an excellent smooth skating defender but he is far from agile and it will be a large hurdle for him to overcome to be a quality defender in the NHL.