Will we re-sign Vrbata?

[Toyotasfan]

The irony of it is he's going to Arizona to do exactly the role he didn't want to do for the Canucks ! Provide veteran leadership for young players on a rebuilding team. Maybe he'll teach someone to float around and have the worst +/- in the league.

[Yukoncanuck87]

In before the hammer

[Fakename70]

6 hours ago, Sean Avery said:

He played with the Sedins last season and played like $&!#. THE SEDINS! Now he's on Arizona again. ARIZONA! He's not going to have a comeback year.

I bet he has a better year than Burrows. Vrbata does only 1 thing well, sure. But, that 1 thing just happens to be the most glaring defect in the Canucks attack and what they lack more than anything. Arizona - Dave Tippett in particular - seems to be able to figure out how best to utilize the guy. Why not Vancouver and Willie D. last year? 

 

"Mentoring" is for teams that have already given up hopes of participating in the playoffs. This isn't the try league. If the kids don't already know what they need to do to hold a roster spot and contribute at the NHL level, then perhaps they're ultimately just not ready to be promoted from the AHL then. 

 

But, yeah, blame it on the vets for not leading them around by the nose. 

[Fakename70]

6 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

The irony of it is he's going to Arizona to do exactly the role he didn't want to do for the Canucks ! Provide veteran leadership for young players on a rebuilding team. Maybe he'll teach someone to float around and have the worst +/- in the league.

You must be reading from completely different articles than I am. Nowhere am I seeing any mention of him "mentoring" for or even being linemates with Arizona's freshmen and sophomores this season. 

 

No, as expected, he was brought back because Tippett knows how to use him and put him in situations to succeed at what he does best. Unlike a certain other Western Conference head coach. 

 

"If he plays well then it will be more than one year."

- John Chayka, Arizona Coyotes GM

 

Does that sound to you like he's expected to be more preoccupied with "mentoring"? Or scoring goals? You tell me. 

[Fakename70]

6 hours ago, Sean Avery said:

He played with the Sedins last season and played like $&!#. THE SEDINS! Now he's on Arizona again. ARIZONA! He's not going to have a comeback year.

You'll have to look outside the Vancouver market (and CDC) for an even-handed analysis of Vrbata's 2 seasons as a Canuck. Particularly with regards to the drop-off in experience and talent of his linemates from one year to the next. If you're not able to acknowledge at least that much, then I wouldn't expect you - or any other CDC'rs - to be able to have an unbiased opinion of the guy with regards to his skill level or ability to still contribute in the NHL. That would explain the smarmy comments this summer.

 

Yet, CDC thinks Burrows is still relevant even though he's been trending downward 3 of the last 4 seasons. If he can outplay Rodin, Grenier, and potentially a handful of other players a decade younger than him, I'll be impressed. But, I don't expect it. 

[alfstonker]

I love how one or two guys on here can bad mouth a player for whatever reason and all the sheep join in. 

 

Maybe some facts would be helpful instead of the usual immature hateful sniping that is such a feature of CDC.

 

Of course he could never succeed with the "10 minute highlight, short attention span jockeys" on here. How could he, he didn't shoot bear with a bow and arrow while constantly injuring himself, drop the gloves and booze with alacrity or chirp like a skylark and take useless penalties.

 

http://onecanuck.com/2016/04/27/defense-radim-vrbata/

[bobbyg43]

6 hours ago, Fakename70 said:

I bet he has a better year than Burrows. Vrbata does only 1 thing well, sure. But, that 1 thing just happens to be the most glaring defect in the Canucks attack and what they lack more than anything. Arizona - Dave Tippett in particular - seems to be able to figure out how best to utilize the guy. Why not Vancouver and Willie D. last year? 

 

"Mentoring" is for teams that have already given up hopes of participating in the playoffs. This isn't the try league. If the kids don't already know what they need to do to hold a roster spot and contribute at the NHL level, then perhaps they're ultimately just not ready to be promoted from the AHL then. 

 

But, yeah, blame it on the vets for not leading them around by the nose. 

The coaches inability to create a line that utilized his strong suit scoring! Seems injury's an lack of depth on team caused him to stagger last season.But clearly coaching could not motivate this Vet to produce his last season here.

[Fakename70]

3 hours ago, bobbyg43 said:

The coaches inability to create a line that utilized his strong suit scoring! Seems injury's an lack of depth on team caused him to stagger last season.But clearly coaching could not motivate this Vet to produce his last season here.

You're not telling anything new there. I don't blame it all 100% on him the way most other CDC'rs do. He's not even a Canuck anymore, so, I'll assume this and all other Vrbata-related threads in this category will soon be locked. 

[Toyotasfan]

On August 17, 2016 at 3:44 AM, Fakename70 said:

You must be reading from completely different articles than I am. Nowhere am I seeing any mention of him "mentoring" for or even being linemates with Arizona's freshmen and sophomores this season. 

 

No, as expected, he was brought back because Tippett knows how to use him and put him in situations to succeed at what he does best. Unlike a certain other Western Conference head coach. 

 

"If he plays well then it will be more than one year."

- John Chayka, Arizona Coyotes GM

 

Does that sound to you like he's expected to be more preoccupied with "mentoring"? Or scoring goals? You tell me. 

Just seems like common sense that when you put a veteran on the second line of the youngest team in the league you expect leadership. Not reading a rocket ship building manual here.

[Fakename70]

18 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

Just seems like common sense that when you put a veteran on the second line of the youngest team in the league you expect leadership. Not reading a rocket ship building manual here.

Just seems like common sense when you've signed a veteran goal scorer who needs proven veteran linemates to feed him the puck that you don't pair him with rookies and sophomores who need "leadership" at the NHL level. 

It's not nuclear physics. The difference between Tippett and Willie D., I guess. 

[harrytoolips]

On July 27, 2016 at 10:44 PM, SaintPatrick33 said:

Yes. JB said he wanted a tough, gritty, non-pouty top 6 forward, so I bet he is working the details on a contract as we speak. 

Bwahahahahahha!

[Realtor Rod]

To answer the OP, no.

[HK Phooey]

On 8/17/2016 at 4:00 AM, Fakename70 said:

You'll have to look outside the Vancouver market (and CDC) for an even-handed analysis of Vrbata's 2 seasons as a Canuck. Particularly with regards to the drop-off in experience and talent of his linemates from one year to the next. If you're not able to acknowledge at least that much, then I wouldn't expect you - or any other CDC'rs - to be able to have an unbiased opinion of the guy with regards to his skill level or ability to still contribute in the NHL. That would explain the smarmy comments this summer.

 

Yet, CDC thinks Burrows is still relevant even though he's been trending downward 3 of the last 4 seasons. If he can outplay Rodin, Grenier, and potentially a handful of other players a decade younger than him, I'll be impressed. But, I don't expect it. 

No one is disputing that Vrbata is a talented and skilled hockey player.  But a talented and skilled player without heart is a lightning rod for criticism, which is exactly what Vrbata is.  

 

Vrbata is good enough to be a solid complementary player who has proven that he can capitalize when teamed up with players that can do all the heavy lifting...he's also proven that he has no heart and no courage, two things Burrows has.  If you could somehow fuse Vrbata and Burrows into one player, you'd have one of the best 35 year old pro hockey players in the NHL.

 

Burrows' game, much like Vrbata's game, has fallen off the cliff, but I'd take a million Burrows over one Vrbata anytime of the week.

 

I didn't like what Vrbata provided at a $5M AAV...I don't like and still don't like what Burrows provides at a $4.5M cap hit.  After watching Vrbata melt down this past season, if I'm an NHL GM, I wouldn't take him at the league minimum, let alone $1.0M AAV plus bonuses.  Burrows, on the other hand, I would sign in a heart beat at $1.0M AAV, and I hope this is what he receives as an offer next summer from the Canucks.

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, Realtor Rod said:

To answer the OP, no.

/thread

 

[Fakename70]

5 hours ago, HK Phooey said:

After watching Vrbata melt down this past season, if I'm an NHL GM, I wouldn't take him at the league minimum, let alone $1.0M AAV plus bonuses.  Burrows, on the other hand, I would sign in a heart beat at $1.0M AAV, and I hope this is what he receives as an offer next summer from the Canucks.

CDC logic at its best right there. Burrows will finally be without a contract next summer, but as armchair GM, you want to offer him another one. And, for all the fingerpointing in Vrbata's direction now after the second season, where were you all after the first season when he lead the team in goals? As I said, when looking for an even-handed opinion on his drop-off in production after the first year, one has to look outside CDC and the Vancouver market to find an acknowledgement of his linemates skill level from one year to the next. You also have to look outside this market to find anyone who thinks his second season as a Canuck was nothing more than an aberration in this late stage of his career. The Coyotes sure weren't too scared off to bring him back to play for a coach who knows how to use him properly. 

[HK Phooey]

12 minutes ago, Fakename70 said:

CDC logic at its best right there. Burrows will finally be without a contract next summer, but as armchair GM, you want to offer him another one. And, for all the fingerpointing in Vrbata's direction now after the second season, where were you all after the first season when he lead the team in goals? As I said, when looking for an even-handed opinion on his drop-off in production after the first year, one has to look outside CDC and the Vancouver market to find an acknowledgement of his linemates skill level from one year to the next. You also have to look outside this market to find anyone who thinks his second season as a Canuck was nothing more than an aberration in this late stage of his career. The Coyotes sure weren't too scared off to bring him back to play for a coach who knows how to use him properly. 

The proof on how the rest of the NHL values Vrbata is in the contract that he just signed...$1M plus bonuses is hardly validation that those outside of Vancouver or CDC think highly about him.  Looks like 30 GMs in the NHL seem to think that Vrbata isn't worth all that much.  He's lucky that ARZ was willing to take him back on a contract that will barely pay more than an ELC+bonus.  

 

A 35 year old who you have to find "special" line mates and situations to be successful...yah, that's a guy 29 NHL GMs don't want on their roster.  Add to this that Vrbata is the tin man and the lion rolled into one.  No heart...no courage.  

 

FTR, I think Vrbata is a skilled player.  The fact that he needs to be put into "special" situations and the fact that he disappears in the playoffs is enough for me to feel zero sense of loss with his departure.  And yes, I would extend Burrows on a one year, $1.0M AAV.  IMO, Burrows can still give you 12 minutes of inspired hockey on a nightly basis.  Definitely something I could not say for Vrbata.  And yah, it's all Willie's fault that Vrbata fell off the cliff last season.  Good one.

[Fakename70]

8 minutes ago, HK Phooey said:

The proof on how the rest of the NHL values Vrbata is in the contract that he just signed...$1M plus bonuses is hardly validation that those outside of Vancouver or CDC think highly about him.  Looks like 30 GMs in the NHL seem to think that Vrbata isn't worth all that much.  He's lucky that ARZ was willing to take him back on a contract that will barely pay more than an ELC+bonus.  

 

A 35 year old who you have to find "special" line mates and situations to be successful...yah, that's a guy 29 NHL GMs don't want on their roster.  Add to this that Vrbata is the tin man and the lion rolled into one.  No heart...no courage.  

 

FTR, I think Vrbata is a skilled player.  The fact that he needs to be put into "special" situations and the fact that he disappears in the playoffs is enough for me to feel zero sense of loss with his departure.  And yes, I would extend Burrows on a one year, $1.0M AAV.  IMO, Burrows can still give you 12 minutes of inspired hockey on a nightly basis.  Definitely something I could not say for Vrbata.  And yah, it's all Willie's fault that Vrbata fell off the cliff last season.  Good one.

Funny how CDC'rs are always bringing up the hometown discounts Burrows has given the Canucks over the years as if he's been a highly-sought after player league wide who's doing the organisation a favour. 

 

As for Vrbata needing a "special" kind of linemate, isn't that the exact reasoning CDC'rs use regarding the twins? Can't have that one both ways, sorry. Especially if you're going to bring up disappearing in the playoffs as if this team didn't already have "certain players" among its veteran core guilty of that one. Good one, bud. 

[HK Phooey]

10 hours ago, Fakename70 said:

Funny how CDC'rs are always bringing up the hometown discounts Burrows has given the Canucks over the years as if he's been a highly-sought after player league wide who's doing the organisation a favour. 

 

As for Vrbata needing a "special" kind of linemate, isn't that the exact reasoning CDC'rs use regarding the twins? Can't have that one both ways, sorry. Especially if you're going to bring up disappearing in the playoffs as if this team didn't already have "certain players" among its veteran core guilty of that one. Good one, bud. 

Well seeing how I never mentioned Burrows taking a home town discount, which by the way, is something I've argued against stating that all of his contracts were fair market value when he signed them, so way to generalize there, "bud".  His value for his next contract if it were here in Vancouver is nothing more than $1.0M AAV.

 

Though others may have argued that the Sedins need a special player to play with them, that's not the case...Jason King, Aaron Carter, Trent Klatt, Jannick Hansen, Alex Burrows, Mikael Samuelsson would suggest otherwise.  

 

And as far as their playoff production is concerned, Daniel at 0.74 regular season PPG/0.70 playoff PPG and Hank at 0.83 regular season PPG/0.74PPG would suggest otherwise as well.  I've knocked the Sedins for their inability to finish for all the puck possession time they have and opportunities they create.  That's about the only time a complementary player would have aided them and the team.  I won't even go into Vrbata's career as a playoff goat (and yah, he gets credited for a couple of points that were attributed to empty net goals vs. the Flames a couple of seasons ago).  On second thought I'll state for you, since you seem to go by what you generalize off of CDC to formulate your points and it's sort of fun debating with someone who goes by that...Vrbata: 0.59 PPG regular season/0.43 PPG playoffs.

 

A little research will go a long way to making your points valid...rather than going by "oh the CDC bums...they all sh!t on my boy Vrbata for no good reason."  There you go, "bud".  Vrbata is a stiff and the Canucks are better served with him playing in Glendale.

 

You got anything else to say, "bud"?

[King Heffy]

On 21/08/2016 at 9:28 PM, Fakename70 said:

CDC logic at its best right there. Burrows will finally be without a contract next summer, but as armchair GM, you want to offer him another one. And, for all the fingerpointing in Vrbata's direction now after the second season, where were you all after the first season when he lead the team in goals? As I said, when looking for an even-handed opinion on his drop-off in production after the first year, one has to look outside CDC and the Vancouver market to find an acknowledgement of his linemates skill level from one year to the next. You also have to look outside this market to find anyone who thinks his second season as a Canuck was nothing more than an aberration in this late stage of his career. The Coyotes sure weren't too scared off to bring him back to play for a coach who knows how to use him properly. 

So you think his terrible attitude should be tolerated by an NHL coach? 

[Fakename70]

On August 22, 2016 at 8:56 AM, HK Phooey said:

Well seeing how I never mentioned Burrows taking a home town discount, which by the way, is something I've argued against stating that all of his contracts were fair market value when he signed them, so way to generalize there, "bud".  His value for his next contract if it were here in Vancouver is nothing more than $1.0M AAV.

 

Though others may have argued that the Sedins need a special player to play with them, that's not the case...Jason King, Aaron Carter, Trent Klatt, Jannick Hansen, Alex Burrows, Mikael Samuelsson would suggest otherwise.  

 

And as far as their playoff production is concerned, Daniel at 0.74 regular season PPG/0.70 playoff PPG and Hank at 0.83 regular season PPG/0.74PPG would suggest otherwise as well.  I've knocked the Sedins for their inability to finish for all the puck possession time they have and opportunities they create.  That's about the only time a complementary player would have aided them and the team.  I won't even go into Vrbata's career as a playoff goat (and yah, he gets credited for a couple of points that were attributed to empty net goals vs. the Flames a couple of seasons ago).  On second thought I'll state for you, since you seem to go by what you generalize off of CDC to formulate your points and it's sort of fun debating with someone who goes by that...Vrbata: 0.59 PPG regular season/0.43 PPG playoffs.

 

A little research will go a long way to making your points valid...rather than going by "oh the CDC bums...they all sh!t on my boy Vrbata for no good reason."  There you go, "bud".  Vrbata is a stiff and the Canucks are better served with him playing in Glendale.

 

You got anything else to say, "bud"?

Plenty, actually. 

 

Those are are some pretty impressive playoff numbers you listed for the Sedins compared to Vrbata. Only 1 problem, though: the twins each have over 100 career postseason games, while Vrbata has, what, 42? 6 as a Canuck. The twins each damn well better have superior numbers playing with superior teams! 

 

"I've knocked the Sedins for their inability to finish for all the puck possession time they have and opportunities they create"

 

Sound familiar? It's one of the few things we agree on. As I said, "certain players" had/have been coming up short for this team in the playoffs. I shouldn't have to name names, but, let's just say that, with regard to those Sedin playoff stats you tried to slay me with, the majority of those numbers were from a superb 3-year run between 2008-2009 and 2010-2011. You based your argument on stats from a full 5-7 seasons ago. Nice. Talk about playoff goats! You're right about 1 thing, though: "a little research will go a long way to making your points valid". No argument there, bud. 

 

Look, Vrbata is no more my "boy" than Burrows is yours. What infuriates me is CDC absolving Willie D. in the collapse in production between that first year and the second. As I've said, Vrbata does only 1 thing: he scores goals. OK. And, he's not out there dangling like Patrick Kane to do it, either. We knew that before he signed here. He doesn't create his own shot. Fine. He's not the first winger in NHL history who relies on feeds from his linemates. No disrespect to Hansen - one of the league's best-kept secrets - but, knowing that Vrbata does the 1 thing this team needs most on offence, why would the thinking man's coach put him with unproven first and second-year players unable to put him in the best possible position to contribute to the team doing the very thing he's actually good at and did better than anyone else on the playoff team from just 1 year before? Especially when taking Bonino's absence AND the injuries to his replacement into account. YOU may think Vrbata's a stiff, but, I highly doubt that was the consensus prior to his arrival nor after that first season. He clearly had already earned top line minutes, and likely wasn't offered a contract to be a "mentor" to younger players. You want a veteran to do that for the kids? Fine. But, isn't that what the captain and alternates are for? With the season Hansen ended up having - who knows if he'd have been as impressive playing with the younger players Vrbata was stuck with - I think that would've given the team a bit more depth last year behind a Sedin-Vrbata line, rather than the uncertainty present for most of the season. 

 

But, yeah, continue to fingerpoint at the guy for not being happy with his personal situation on a rudderless ship when it could/should be argued the head coach failed to utilize him properly in the first place. No such problems in the desert. 

 

Meanwhile in Vancouver, it's going to be fun in a few years time after the Sedins are gone and Ericsson likely has the team's biggest cap hit on the wrong side of age 35.