The BC Real Estate Discussion Thread

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I heard there was a loop hole a few years back. As a foreigner, if you leased a commercial space ( tiny, cheap one if youre set to scam)  and claimed that you were intending to open a business there. Then you could purchase a home in Canada without any issues. Then simply let the lease run out and never open the supposed business. 

the 1% student or home maker incidents here in canada, those were great for BC

[WeneedLumme]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

It's not JUST corporations, it's companies.  Companies from those papers are also designated as being people holding multiple homes (more than 2) for the sole purpose of investment/financialization and income return.

 

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

This came from a column I posted a few pages back regarding the financialization of canada's housing sector

 

Edit*. Added links

 

https://www.homelesshub.ca/resource/financialization-housing-canada-1

 

https://sicanada.org/program/financialization-and-housing/

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/nhs/nhs-project-profiles/2019-nhs-projects/financialization-housing

 

https://socialinnovation.org/offering/financialization-of-housing/

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-financialization-of-housing-is-not-the-problem-in-fact-we-need-more-of/

 

https://housingrights.ca/national-housing-councils-first-review-panel-on-financialization-to-move-forward/

Nice set of links. So which one of them shows the data that 60% of homes are being purchased by corporations? Btw, company and corporation are synonyms.

[WeneedLumme]

.Colmar says some of the key factors to watch for are further interest rate hikes and employment levels – warning that if rising unemployment levels combine with spiking mortgage rates Canada could face a situation similar to the 2008 crisis in the U.S.

 

A couple of points: (1) If unemployment levels rise significantly, the BOC will not continue to raise interest rates, but will cut them, and

(2) Everybody buying real estate in Canada has at least some equity and an income sufficient to make their mortgage payments, unlike the NINJA (no income no job no assets) mortgages which led to the 2008 US crash. So not really that similar.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, WeneedLumme said:

 

Nice set of links. So which one of them shows the data that 60% of homes are being purchased by corporations? Btw, company and corporation are synonyms.

They all lead back to the same series of studies.

 

Maybe try reading them instead of being a dismissive and smarmy douche 

 

Just saying

 

Business/Company/Corporation/Investor.  This includes investor ownership of a home in which income is derived from short term rentals or air bnb style rental occurences in which income is derived.

 

The fastest growing demographic in Canadian housing is the renter demographic.  This directly suggests that investor properties are being built and purchased in far greater numbers than before in Canada outside of the 1960s boom.  As the owner of an investor property owns the property solely to derive income or profit.

 

With the recent growth in apartments, dwellings built since 2016 are more likely to be occupied by renters compared with the older housing stock. Just over two in five dwellings built from 2016 to 2021 (40.4%) were occupied by renters in 2021, a higher proportion than any other era of housing stock, except for dwellings built in the 1960s post-war apartment boom.

 

The decline in homeownership is a reflection of the trends in new construction connected to the densification of large urban centres. Apartments in high-rise buildings with five or more storeys made up the fastest growing building type from 2016 to 2021, rising over twice as fast as the overall stock of private dwellings (+14.7% vs. +6.4%) and accounting for 34.4% of dwellings in Canada.

 

Condominiums that are tenant-occupied are most often owned by individuals (as opposed to corporations or other entities), likely as an investment property. According to the Canadian Housing Statistics Program, over three-quarters (77.1%) of the condos in British Columbia and over two-thirds (69.1%) of those in Ontario that were not being lived in by the homeowner were owned by individual Canadian investors. Condominiums are typically less expensive than houses and offer owners an opportunity to invest in the real estate market with an asset that generates both rental income and wealth.

 

Specifically, the following owners are considered to be investors:

• A business or government that owns at least one residential property, excluding Canadian non-profit organizations.^Note Given the predominance of businesses in this category, they will simply be referred to as “business” in what follows.
• An individual owner who is not resident in Canada, referred to as a “non-resident investor” below.
• An individual owner who lives outside the province where they own residential property, referred to as an “out-of-province investor” in the province of the non-principal residence.
• An individual owner who lives in the province and owns two or more residential properties, or owns a property with multiple residential units who does not occupy that property. These individuals will be referred to as “in-province investors”.

 

Maybe try reading them instead of being a dismissive and well.

 

You know

[The Arrogant Worms]

25 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

They all lead back to the same series of studies.

 

Maybe try reading them instead of being a dismissive and smarmy douche 

 

Just saying

 

Business/Company/Corporation/Investor.  This includes investor ownership of a home in which income is derived from short term rentals or air bnb style rental occurences in which income is derived.

 

The fastest growing demographic in Canadian housing is the renter demographic.  This directly suggests that investor properties are being built and purchased in far greater numbers than before in Canada outside of the 1960s boom.  As the owner of an investor property owns the property solely to derive income or profit.

 

With the recent growth in apartments, dwellings built since 2016 are more likely to be occupied by renters compared with the older housing stock. Just over two in five dwellings built from 2016 to 2021 (40.4%) were occupied by renters in 2021, a higher proportion than any other era of housing stock, except for dwellings built in the 1960s post-war apartment boom.

 

The decline in homeownership is a reflection of the trends in new construction connected to the densification of large urban centres. Apartments in high-rise buildings with five or more storeys made up the fastest growing building type from 2016 to 2021, rising over twice as fast as the overall stock of private dwellings (+14.7% vs. +6.4%) and accounting for 34.4% of dwellings in Canada.

 

Condominiums that are tenant-occupied are most often owned by individuals (as opposed to corporations or other entities), likely as an investment property. According to the Canadian Housing Statistics Program, over three-quarters (77.1%) of the condos in British Columbia and over two-thirds (69.1%) of those in Ontario that were not being lived in by the homeowner were owned by individual Canadian investors. Condominiums are typically less expensive than houses and offer owners an opportunity to invest in the real estate market with an asset that generates both rental income and wealth.

 

Specifically, the following owners are considered to be investors:

• A business or government that owns at least one residential property, excluding Canadian non-profit organizations.^Note Given the predominance of businesses in this category, they will simply be referred to as “business” in what follows.
• An individual owner who is not resident in Canada, referred to as a “non-resident investor” below.
• An individual owner who lives outside the province where they own residential property, referred to as an “out-of-province investor” in the province of the non-principal residence.
• An individual owner who lives in the province and owns two or more residential properties, or owns a property with multiple residential units who does not occupy that property. These individuals will be referred to as “in-province investors”.

 

Maybe try reading them instead of being a dismissive and well.

 

You know

Try being civil and not act like a child.

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

They all lead back to the same series of studies.

 

Maybe try reading them instead of being a dismissive and smarmy douche 

 

Just saying

 

Business/Company/Corporation/Investor.  This includes investor ownership of a home in which income is derived from short term rentals or air bnb style rental occurences in which income is derived.

 

The fastest growing demographic in Canadian housing is the renter demographic.  This directly suggests that investor properties are being built and purchased in far greater numbers than before in Canada outside of the 1960s boom.  As the owner of an investor property owns the property solely to derive income or profit.

 

With the recent growth in apartments, dwellings built since 2016 are more likely to be occupied by renters compared with the older housing stock. Just over two in five dwellings built from 2016 to 2021 (40.4%) were occupied by renters in 2021, a higher proportion than any other era of housing stock, except for dwellings built in the 1960s post-war apartment boom.

 

The decline in homeownership is a reflection of the trends in new construction connected to the densification of large urban centres. Apartments in high-rise buildings with five or more storeys made up the fastest growing building type from 2016 to 2021, rising over twice as fast as the overall stock of private dwellings (+14.7% vs. +6.4%) and accounting for 34.4% of dwellings in Canada.

 

Condominiums that are tenant-occupied are most often owned by individuals (as opposed to corporations or other entities), likely as an investment property. According to the Canadian Housing Statistics Program, over three-quarters (77.1%) of the condos in British Columbia and over two-thirds (69.1%) of those in Ontario that were not being lived in by the homeowner were owned by individual Canadian investors. Condominiums are typically less expensive than houses and offer owners an opportunity to invest in the real estate market with an asset that generates both rental income and wealth.

 

Specifically, the following owners are considered to be investors:

• A business or government that owns at least one residential property, excluding Canadian non-profit organizations.^Note Given the predominance of businesses in this category, they will simply be referred to as “business” in what follows.
• An individual owner who is not resident in Canada, referred to as a “non-resident investor” below.
• An individual owner who lives outside the province where they own residential property, referred to as an “out-of-province investor” in the province of the non-principal residence.
• An individual owner who lives in the province and owns two or more residential properties, or owns a property with multiple residential units who does not occupy that property. These individuals will be referred to as “in-province investors”.

 

Maybe try reading them instead of being a dismissive and well.

 

You know

Maybe you could bold the part where it says 60% of the homes are being purchased by corporations? I don't see it, and really I can and do read.

 

Even if you want to consider any person who buys even one condo for an investment to be what you called a corporation, where does it say that 60% of homes are being sold to investors?

Edited September 1, 2023 by WeneedLumme

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Try being civil and not act like a child.

Maybe you should try taking this seriously and understand my irritation If you can't or don't that's fine but being dismissed by someone who refuses to read the data that is rpesented is beyond insulting and quite frankly I don't give a randy shart if you think my response is childish.  I'll call anyone out for their behaviour as much as people will mine and for the same damned reasons.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, WeneedLumme said:

Maybe you could bold the part where it says 60% of the homes are being purchased by corporations? I don't see it, and really I can and do read.

 

Even if you want to consider any person who buys even one condo for an investment to be what you called a corporation, where does it say that 60% of homes are being sold to investors?

Find out how many home sales are sold for cash.  Not mortgaged.  Not leased.  Not leveraged.  Sold for outright cash up front.

 

between 2014 and 2021 1 in every 5 homes in Canada sold or just over 20.4% were sold to Investors.  Since 2021 it has been noted that a significant portion of home sales, over 40% are being sold for cash.  CMHC charts sales of certain degrees but still lags behind on home sales for cash.  It also lags behind on reporting ownership of corporation/company.  

 

Data shows that in the largest cities in the nation that homes/condos are being sold for cash at higher rates but are carry some of the most inflated costs of housing in the G20.  With 1/5 homes being sold going to investors, as noted people with the intent of renting, and an additional 40%+ of homes being sold for cash in single time sales (people don't have the money to do that, who does though?  (REITs/Property development/management ompanies/investors) as well as the exacerbated number of rental units over the past 3-4 years the data extrapolated suggests/shows that more than 2 out of every 5 home/condo sales in canada are being sold to investors/corporations/companies.

 

This data is to be found in the links added.  Admittedly by the authors own assertion extrapolation is needed but all data points to an overwhelming number of purchases being made to investors/companies/corporations

 

Because CMHC and Stats can does not yet chart direct data on ownership by corporation/company or investor this extrapolation is all that there is to go on but all evidence as such points to this being the case since it started being tracked in passing since 2014 and more so over the past 3 years or so.

 

Now that being said, I am sick; I am in the midst of an ugly home reno in which I have my wife and 2 daughters squeezing our arses in to about 500 sq feet and our fridge died so we are all here on edge.  My answers are beyond short and quite strong and I should apologize but I don't have the enrgy to apologize or justify why I am such a grumpy butthole right now 

 

The math is there, the data exists in part but it is a bit of adding to achieve it but the numbers do not lie and they point to what is being called the financialization of our real estate and housing secotr.

[WeneedLumme]

8 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Maybe you should try taking this seriously and understand my irritation If you can't or don't that's fine but being dismissed by someone who refuses to read the data that is rpesented is beyond insulting and quite frankly I don't give a randy shart if you think my response is childish.  I'll call anyone out for their behaviour as much as people will mine and for the same damned reasons.

And I will call out anyone who fabricates numbers to support a position that is clearly contrary to facts. Calling someone who buys a condo or two for an investment a "corporation" is silly. And again, saying that 60% of home sales are going to investors, let alone corporations, is beyond silly.

[luckyjack]

It becomes popular to buy property in the UAE these days. Dubai can offer great investment potential, but being well-prepared and informed is key to making the right decisions in the real estate market here. Non-residents usually need approval from the Dubai Land Department (DLD) to buy property but in any case I think it could be great investment for the future too. I checked Town Square community at https://everhomes.ae/community/town-square/ there are different property for sale with a wide range of amenities and attractions, making this a great place to live and work. I hired pro team from Everhomes to help me searching the best property. I think hiring a real estate agent is a smart move when buying property in the UAE. They bring a lot to the table in terms of expertise and convenience.

Edited September 16, 2023 by luckyjack

[Notwhereitsat]

Young people paying for covid payouts and green transition through mortgage payments. That's how it played out. My daughter will take it on the chin.

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, Notwhereitsat said:

Young people paying for covid payouts and green transition through mortgage payments. That's how it played out. My daughter will take it on the chin.

Fake news.

Young people can't afford homes, therefore they have no mortgage payments.

 

[Warhippy]

36 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Fake news.

Young people can't afford homes, therefore they have no mortgage payments.

 

Homes?

 

Ha, have you seen the price of food?

[Notwhereitsat]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Homes?

 

Ha, have you seen the price of food?

Time for another golden oldie. Sorry....

 

 

[The Arrogant Worms]

Ottawa to remove GST on new rental housing, ask grocers to stabilize prices

 

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/cp-newsalert-federal-government-removing-153018308.html

[Warhippy]

19 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Ottawa to remove GST on new rental housing, ask grocers to stabilize prices

 

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/cp-newsalert-federal-government-removing-153018308.html

Slippery slope.

 

Developers will not be passing these savings down.  People purchasing will not be receiving a GST break.  Materials purchased will still be subject to GST etc etc etc

[Warhippy]

37 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

I think the idea here is to incentivize the building of rental housing (vs. building for purchasing, ie. market housing).  However, without government intervention in a big way (the boogeyman of the "free market/enterpris"ers), such as actually footing the construction bill and managing the properties, rental housing is never going to be seen as a feasible "product" for construction companies or developers.

There in lies the issue.  I spoke pretty hard about this to someone the other day who just said "it's immigrants" causing the issue

 

Boy didn't get it at all.  Tried to explain it but he wouldn't listen

 

Cancelling immigration means we lose the labour force. We have a population that won't clean a bathroom or work a menial labour position. No new immigrants mean less labour which means more business closures.

 

Developers and home owners can not be expected to lower their prices just because the government asks. Without direct intervention and regulation prices won't droop. This would be an insane overreach by the government and tantamount to authoritarianism at worst, socialism at best.

To ensure lower cost rentals or actual apartments are built, it would mean direct building and funding by the federal government. Socialised housing, again socialism. People seem to be dead set against this. So why is it being debated?

 

Between an aging population, the financialization of our housing sector and the multi decade approach to ignoring the issue and stripping basic trades training at the provincial levels from high schools. We do not have the work force, the skill or the knowledge on how to fix this issue without causing major issues elsewhere.

 

Direct intervention in the housing market and the socialised building of 200k new units a year means housing prices will absolutely crash nation wide. No party wants to be the party in charge of causing the biggest housing crash in history in this nation.

 

Finally, building 300k+ new units above and beyond means less checks and balances. In a decade or less without qualified builders and inspections these homes will be falling apart creating an even bigger issue. All of these units will be coming online at the same time and will make the leaky condo crisis on the west coast pale in comparison.

 

This of course is without mentioning for a moment that adding 300k+ new units a year to the largest population centres in our nation means rebuilding infrastructure from the ground up. New water, gas, sewer water treatment. Adding 20k people to towns of 40k to 70k means their entire infrastructure network will be strained and need upgrading, updating and rebuilding.

 

There is no magic pill to swallow here.  Changing the PM won't change things.  You can't force developers to build more for less.  You can't force landlords to rent for less.  You can't stop immigration because we have a workforce in canada not equipped to build homes or work in trades.  

 

We are facing that perfect storm of issues.  Stop immigration, less tax base less labour force.  Force regulations on housing and crater the housing sector as corporations rush to sell creating one of the largest losses of wealth in canadian history.  Somehow manage to build an additional 300k+ units on top of the 225k already being built per year and see less oversight and end up with a housing crisis in a decade when leaks, mold, mildew, deficiencies become apparent.  manage to do it all without issue or shattering the economy, now you have to build the infrastructure to meet the 1.4 million new Canadians expected by 2030 ish which will cost hundreds of billions nationwide to upgrade water, sewer, gas, roads schools hospitals etLike this is a perfect storm and a half and I get the idea of incentives towards builders.  I do.  But it's never gonna work the way they hope it will and nobody is addressing the elephants in the room which is going to create an immense issue in a decade or less because they are planning for right now, not the future

[riotsurvivor]

ban airbnb to increase the supply in the rental market 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, riotsurvivor said:

ban airbnb to increase the supply in the rental market 

a lot of strata banned renting out to airbnb.. personally my apartment is empty because it's a small apartment with only 1 bedroom i can't really rent it out to family.. and so far i had 4 renter.. 1 ran off during covid with 4 months payment lagging. and the other 3 cost significant dmg that i end up having to pay out of my own pocket to repair.. just not worth my headache.. i rather leave it empty and have it as a place to retreat when necessary since there's no mortgage left on it 

[-DLC-]

9 hours ago, riotsurvivor said:

ban airbnb to increase the supply in the rental market 

I agree.

 

In Richmond it's off the charts and I wonder why no one's taking note? I mean, do these people declare their fauxtel cash as income? There are some property owners with a dozen or more properties listed.

 

The new condos are pre-sold and these people gobble them up and then make a killing on them.

 

The entire thing needs review.