Forward Development

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Well Draisaitl, Nylander were sent to the AHL in their draft years and it has looked like they benefited from it, Reinhart was sent back to junior as well as Marner. I know you hate anything Leafs or Coil but that was the correct thing to do.

You're missing the point (that LaBamba is making).  The claim here is that everyone should be sent back to the AHL - Horvat, Virtanen.

Those guys you name - apparently should still be in the A.

Horvat was returned to junior - and yet apparently he wasn't ready when he did make the team.

 

Players that earn spots should have them - young or old.  That doesn't mean you launch kids straight out of junior into your top 6.

 

Draisaitl, ironically, was probably the most NHL ready young player of all the premature Coilers.

[LaBamba]

Just now, J.R. said:

 

 

He's also replenished the vast majority of those picks he 'spent' my myopic friend. 

 

Like Clendidnothing and Vey? Even all those players he acquired through the picks he spent to get them. We really that good? Was it worth it? It's counter productive. That shame felt by trading Forsling away for a more developed player is something you need to hold onto and become accustomed to. It's the new norm. 

[LaBamba]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

You're missing the point (that LaBamba is making).  The claim here is that everyone should be sent back to the AHL - Horvat, Virtanen.

Those guys you name - apparently should still be in the A.

Horvat was returned to junior - and yet apparently he wasn't ready when he did make the team.

 

Players that earn spots should have them - young or old.  That doesn't mean you launch kids straight out of junior into your top 6.

 

Draisaitl, ironically, was probably the most NHL ready young player of all the premature Coilers.

 

My point is if you are going to rebuild on the fly with late round picks you 

A. Need picks

B. Need to prioritize development above all. (Take all the steps)

C. Have some inkling of priority for your AHL affiliate. 

[aGENT]

9 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

That is exactly what I'm talking about. JB is just looking at the playoffs 

 

You're a fool if you actually believe that.

[LaBamba]

Just now, J.R. said:

 

You're a fool if you actually believe that.

 

We got older this year, I think maybe I'm on to something. 

[oldnews]

6 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

I like you but how could you possibly know any of this? 

I don't know crap - except this - this thread is signature CDC whining.

 

I don't give a crap where the players come from.

 

The Sedins, Edler, Hansen, Horvat, Hutton, Virtanen, Boeser, Juolevi, Gaunce, Rodin, Demko, Tryamkin - all drafted by this team

Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, etc - acquired by dealing players that were drafted by this team.

Tanev, Stecher, Garteig etc signed as college FAs.  Eriksson via free agency.

 

You use every means you can to improve your team and your depth - and you crack a few eggs and trade a few Shinkaruks in the process.

 

I honestly could not care less about the whiney protests and hair-splitting of threads like this.

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

Like Clendidnothing and Vey? Even all those players he acquired through the picks he spent to get them. We really that good? Was it worth it? It's counter productive. That shame felt by trading Forsling away for a more developed player is something you need to hold onto and become accustomed to. It's the new norm. 

 

Clendening eventually, partly turned in to Sutter. Vey gave us a couple decent years, including time and providing depth in Utica. Not every move is going to work out. And yes, he replenished most of those pics moving guys like Bieksa, Lack etc. 

 

Seriously, know WTF you're talking about if you're going to bitch about it.

[LaBamba]

Just now, oldnews said:

I don't know crap - except this - this thread is signature CDC whining.

 

I don't give a crap where the players come from.

 

The Sedins, Edler, Hansen, Horvat, Hutton, Virtanen, Boeser, Juolevi, Gaunce, Rodin, Demko, Tryamkin - all drafted by this team

Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, etc - acquired by dealing players that were drafted by this team.

Tanev, Stecher, Garteig etc signed as college FAs.  Eriksson via free agency.

 

You use every means you can to improve your team and your depth - and you crack a few eggs and trade a few Shinkaruks in the process.

 

I honestly could not care less about the whiney protests and hair-splitting of threads like this.

 

We still suck though so, was it all really worth it? If we were legitimate contenders I could totally see your point but we aren't and I don't. call me a whiner all you want. I am and I don't care. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

I don't know crap - except this - this thread is signature CDC whining.

 

I don't give a crap where the players come from.

 

The Sedins, Edler, Hansen, Horvat, Hutton, Virtanen, Boeser, Juolevi, Gaunce, Rodin, Demko, Tryamkin - all drafted by this team

Gudbranson, Sutter, Granlund, etc - acquired by dealing players that were drafted by this team.

Tanev, Stecher, Garteig etc signed as college FAs.  Eriksson via free agency.

 

You use every means you can to improve your team and your depth - and you crack a few eggs and trade a few Shinkaruks in the process.

 

I honestly could not care less about the whiney protests and hair-splitting of threads like this.

 

Exactly. The entire point is to improve. And improve everywhere...NHL, AHL, college, Jr. EVERYWHERE.

 

You don't do that by just sitting on your hands and only drafting as @LaBamba advocates for. You scout pro college and Jr. prospects. You trade players you signed, drafted and traded. You move picks when necessary. I'd move our 2017 1st+ if it gets us a future 1C. 

 

And now CDC is bitching at Benning because the previous regime largely (and rightly) spent futures to contend and there's hence minimal 'home grown' players from that time frame. Well f'ing duh.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

We still suck though so, was it all really worth it? If we were legitimate contenders I could totally see your point but we aren't and I don't. call me a whiner all you want. I am and I don't care. 

 

We're not at the destination yet.

[oldnews]

Just now, LaBamba said:

 

We still suck though so, was it all really worth it? If we were legitimate contenders I could totally see your point but we aren't and I don't. call me a whiner all you want. I am and I don't care. 

I don't know about the "we suck" perception - but regardless, I didn't call you a whiner LB - I referred to the thread.  I noticed that the King of the East Side parachuted in and then abandoned his hair splitting whine job.

[kingofsurrey]

4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

 

 

You use every means you can to improve your team and your depth - and you crack a few eggs and trade a few Shinkaruks in the process.

 

I honestly could not care less about the whiney protests and hair-splitting of threads like this.

 

This thread is about forwards drafted and developed by Canucks.  

 

Wow , you really seem to not have much to contribute.   Keep living in 2011..... Did you tape the finals on your VCR ?

 

 Sedins,  -  how many years ago was this...  -   

Edler, -  not a forward

Hansen, -  10 yrs ago.  Was done properly...

Horvat, - recently and looks like progressing well.

Hutton,   not a forward

Virtanen, recently and looks like not going well

Boeser, - drafted too early to say how his development in the NHL will go

Juolevi,   not a forward

Gaunce, - drafted  too early to say how his development in the NHL will go

Rodin, drafted  too early to say how his development in the NHL will go

Demko,   not a forward

Tryamkin -   not a forward

Gudbranson,   not a forward

 

[higgyfan]

Great topic KOS.

 

I don't think anyone can deny the great team development during the Manitoba Moose days.  The backslide started with the Burke/Nonis/Gilles days of trading 1st rounders and some poor drafting choices and of course...The Chicago Wolves.

 

It's early days for JB and The Utica Comets, but hopefully the team development process will improve dramatically.

 

I agree with many, that think JB made a mistake with McCann/Virtanen, but am hopeful it's a lesson learned.

[LaBamba]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Clendening eventually, partly turned in to Sutter. Vey gave us a couple decent years, including time and providing depth in Utica. Not every move is going to work out. And yes, he replenished most of those pics moving guys like Bieksa, Lack etc. 

 

Seriously, know WTF you're talking about if you're going to bitch about it.

 

I guess my definition of replenish is different. 

 

The fact that you just tried to Justify Vey is amazing. You should be in a lab and studied for the purpose of developing drugs to suppress trauma. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

I guess my definition of replenish is different. 

 

The fact that you just tried to Justify Vey is amazing. You should be in a lab and studied for the purpose of developing drugs to suppress trauma. 

 

Clearly you definition doesn't make sense 

 

Why? He served a purpose (we lacked near NHL C depth, forward depth and forward prospects) and unfortunately didn't work out long term. If Vey's the biggest complaint you can come up with re: Benning's management... #splitting hairs #sweat the small stuff 

[oldnews]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Exactly. The entire point is to improve. And improve everywhere...NHL, AHL, college, Jr. EVERYWHERE.

 

You don't do that by just sitting on your hands and only drafting as @LaBamba advocates for. You scout pro college and Jr. prospects. You trade players you signed, drafted and traded. You move picks when necessary. I'd move our 2017 1st+ if it gets us a future 1C. 

 

And now CDC is bitching at Benning because the previous regime largely (and rightly) spent futures to contend and there's hence minimal 'home grown' players from that time frame. Well f'ing duh.

Whiners gonna whine.

 

They can mope about the previous regime all they want.

 

The previous regime passed on Horvat (who they got by turning a 26th overall into a starter).

They passed along two of our young top 4 - Hutton and Tanev.

They passed along Markstrom, who certainly looks like he's right on the verge of commanding the starting role.

 

What they're really whining about is the failure to convert every last late round pick into an NHL top 6.

Sorry, but every team has a Jensen and a Hodgson in their last decade of drafting.

[LaBamba]

4 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Great topic KOS.

 

I don't think anyone can deny the great team development during the Manitoba Moose days.  The backslide started with the Burke/Nonis/Gilles days of trading 1st rounders and some poor drafting choices and of course...The Chicago Wolves.

 

It's early days for JB and The Utica Comets, but hopefully the team development process will improve dramatically.

 

I agree with many, that think JB made a mistake with McCann/Virtanen, but am hopeful it's a lesson learned.

 

This is a great point guys. The most successful team we ever had came from the Manitoba moose. Why aren't we trying to recreate that? Instead we are just surrounding what is left of that old Moose core and the Sedin's with different players. It's sad. 

[stuman491]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

 

Having a strong farm team for call ups is part of his job JR. We are living paycheque to paycheque  with no money in the bank. 

As was said above.  This is the result of the previous regime and trading away our picks to win a cup.  We will be lucky to make the playoffs this year, because as you said we have little to no depth up front.  Yes the Comets are bad.  Wait 2 years.  Suddenly those guys that are in Junior are playing in the AHL our college prospects will join them.  Then our farm team will look better.  We will have some depth.  In 5 years our roster will have plenty of guys who have been developed by our system.  Just like our 2000's teams.

Kesler, Ohlund, Bieksa, Raymond, Hanson, Grabner, Schneider, Edler, Sedins (even though the didn't play in the AHL).  Be patient.  Try to enjoy this period of transition and hope it is Not Leaf or Oiler in length.

 

Missed a super important word there.

[aGENT]

Just now, stuman491 said:

As was said above.  This is the result of the previous regime and trading away our picks to win a cup.  We will be lucky to make the playoffs this year, because as you said we have little to no depth up front.  Yes the Comets are bad.  Wait 2 years.  Suddenly those guys that are in Junior are playing in the AHL our college prospects will join them.  Then our farm team will look better.  We will have some depth.  In 5 years our roster will have plenty of guys who have been developed by our system.  Just like our 2000's teams.

Kesler, Ohlund, Bieksa, Raymond, Hanson, Grabner, Schneider, Edler, Sedins (even though the didn't play in the AHL).  Be patient.  Try to enjoy this period of transition and hope it is Leaf or Oiler in length. 

 

It's like the concept of time is some sort of foreign concept to people.... 

[SaintPatrick33]

LOL Loving this thread so far, and I think we can agree that this team has no creativity or elite-scoring at the forward position, which in turn makes this team kind of boring to watch. When the Sedins were in their prime, we had one of the most exciting teams in the league. 

 

Say what you want about the leafs and oilers, but right now I actually watch those games and come away leaving satisfied in watching entertaining hockey. The leafs only started their "rebuild" 2 years ago, before that they were doing the same thing we were which is trying to make the playoffs (Kessel, Phanoof, Clarkson etc). 

 

Then they all of a sudden bring in some major league clout in Shanahan, Babcock and Lamorello and the 2nd year they have building blocks of Nylander, Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Zaitsev.

 

Sometimes it takes luck to get a high pick in a draft that has elite talent. 

 

I think if we landed a top 3 pick in this past draft we would not have this discussion because Lainer or Poolparty would be lighting it up for us.