The Sedin's Trade Value (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

I am writing this because of the continuous discussion and trade proposals, written and spoke about, not only on CDC, but HF Boards and 1040 as well. Nothing of which I am innocent of, or haven't discussed countless times

 

As there are 2 very cemented sides, I am not going to comment on who we should or not trade the Sedin's for, but the value of trading them, anytime between now, and next years TDL. Not that we are or aren't, but what is the actual value of them.

 

First off, trading the Sedin's would be very difficult, but not impossible. Any trade would certainly contain a certain amount of cap retention, and would require a realistic, but fair return. This is what I want to talk about.

 

I am very open to all counters, but feel the following are fair Options and Values;

 

Opinion #1.

 

Keep the Sedins, let them play out their careers in 2 to 3 years, let them slowly fall into 2nd line players, and honor them for their play and community service, letting them quietly slip into the night unnoticed. We will see them around town and abroad, and remember the greatness that they were. This is what many fans would like. It is a popular request, and very reasonable to most. Some will argue that we should have moved them at some point, pointing out that we could have moved them for asset return. Other will say that, they would be impossible to trade.

 

Opinion #2 ( less than real option )

 

Well, as I understand it, trade the Sedin's now, for as much as you can reasonably expect in return. What is that exactly? If the Sedin's were traded now, mid season. The Canusks would have to either eat a huge amount of cap or take a huge amount of cap back, or a combination there of. Not a very reasonable expectation from the Canucks, and truthfully would only come as a result of another team instigating and over paying,,,,,something, I would not think most GM's would do.

In this scenario;  

 

a). the canucks retain 9 million this year and 14 million next year. What would this be worth alone? I would expect any owner to expect a A prospect and a 2nd for their 21 million

b). Daniel Sedin value alone should be based on his offensive output......Daniel is currently tied for the 20th point totals for LW.......certainly a A prospect and a 1st rounder

c). Henrik Sedin is currently tied for 32 in points among centers, and his value would be some what less than Daniels.......possibly a late 1st rounder or an A prospect

 

* Very unrealistic return and considering the NMC and the Expansion draft. But a team would have 2 runs at the cup.  This would also appease Tankers, as the fall would be dramatic.

 

Option #3 (Much more realistic and cost effective for both teams, Ha!)

 

Moving the Sedin's at the TDL. More realistic for the Owner, only 6 million at the TDL and 14 Million next year. the return would be less, but it would allow Both teams to make a more workable deal. Who am I fooling....not going to happen then either, not before the Expansion draft.......no way!  ( the return same as above)

 

Option #4 (In the summer)

 

Why would any team, trade for the Sedin's in the summer? Why would the owners want to hold the cap retention? I do not think this would happen at this time, as teams are still building and trying to evaluate their own talent........to me only top 12 teams look at the Sedin's anyways at the TDL

 

Option #5  2018 TDL (Truly realistic for tankers and Trading partners)

 

Here lays the only other option other than Option #1. The Sedin's could possibly wave their NMC's  for a run at the cup and a 3 month vacation (playoffs). Teams would know their roster situation and needs. The total cost would be approx. 6 million, which could easily be manipulated, the asset cost would be manageable to the trading team.

 

The cost of this option to the Canucks is 6 million retention or a bad contract back, plus a 2nd line center and 1st line LW, on out going contracts in 2018

The cost to the trading team should be somewhere around an A prospect and a 1st to a top 10 to 12  team (Because the low amount of teams wanting them or visa versa)

(Also because they are a dual - 2 for 1 deal)

 

Conclusion............. keep or deal at the 2018 TDL        

 

* Only 1 remote option this year, after seeing Carry Price go down last year, I am not sure Montreal would not take a run at them, if their #1 center goes down for the season........very unlikely

 

Question

 

If we keep them, are they still #2 liners in years 3 and 4? Are they going to be fast enough? Strong enough? Healthy enough? That is what I would be asking!

[oldnews]

you gotta know how redundant this is jan

[kloubek]

Didn't we have a thread going discussing exactly this already?

 

Sedins will finish their careers as Canucks.  Bet on it.

[Davathor]

So redundant

 

NOBODY will trade for 2 players over 34, that have to play together, take up 14 mill cap AND both take up a protected spot for the expansion draft. 

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

Just now, oldnews said:

you gotta know how redundant this is jan

I do and I apologize Oldnews, but it was the discussion on 1040 as I was driving home tonight.....I actually turned it off, which might explain your reaction......come to think of it! LOL But as a tanker, it started me thinking of the debate, when and how much, and when was it just simply unreasonable......it will die if no one wants to chime in, but I understand your point......but 1040 still thinks its worth talking about.....evidently, they don't read CDC

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

I do and I apologize Oldnews, but it was the discussion on 1040 as I was driving home tonight.....I actually turned it off, which might explain your reaction......come to think of it! LOL But as a tanker, it started me thinking of the debate, when and how much, and when was it just simply unreasonable......it will die if no one wants to chime in, but I understand your point......but 1040 still thinks its worth talking about.....evidently, they don't read CDC

no need to apologize jan, I'm just saying that this isn't likely going to go too well haha.

 

watch your back for elvis

 

pretty sure that management recently reconfirmed that they aren't going anywhere.

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 minutes ago, Davathor said:

So redundant

 

NOBODY will trade for 2 players over 34, that have to play together, take up 14 mill cap AND both take up a protected spot for the expansion draft. 

 

 

Hey  D

 

I know I am long winded, but you have to read the whole post

 

And....all you need is a change in ownership direction,.........hire Keenan and look out! lol

[J-23]

The Sedins have played their entire careers in Vancouver. I think the Sedins want one more chance to try and win the cup, and they deserve one more chance. I say we keep them as 2nd or 3rd liners in the next 3-4 years, if they choose to play that long. However, I think they are going to need a young, strong, fast player as their line-mate. Being healthy enough is on their part. I want to see them retire as Canucks, I can't even imagine them in another jersey beside a Canuck one.

[riffraff]

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 minute ago, J-23 said:

The Sedins have played their entire careers in Vancouver. I think the Sedins want one more chance to try and win the cup, and they deserve one more chance. I say we keep them as 2nd or 3rd liners in the next 3-4 years, if they choose to play that long. However, I think they are going to need a young, strong, fast player as their line-mate. Being healthy enough is on their part. I want to see them retire as Canucks, I can't even imagine them in another jersey beside a Canuck one.

 

I get that J-23, but this game is changing fast....most young players are playing a fast north still game, the Sedin's are not doing either, how do you think they will look in 2 or 4 years........?

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

You really are Riffraff.....lol

[riffraff]

Just now, janisahockeynut said:

 

You really are Riffraff.....lol

 

There would be no fun if all my posts were profound.

[J-23]

Just now, janisahockeynut said:

 

I get that J-23, but this game is changing fast....most young players are playing a fast north still game, the Sedin's are not doing either, how do you think they will look in 2 or 4 years........?

True, it just hurts to see them not have a cup.

[numb3r 16]

2 firsts 1 2nd and Pierre luck dubois

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, J-23 said:

True, it just hurts to see them not have a cup.

They are the best players in Canuck history. It's that simple. They deserve a cup more than anyone else other than maybe Ovie.

[ABNuck]

24 minutes ago, oldnews said:

no need to apologize jan, I'm just saying that this isn't likely going to go too well haha.

 

watch your back for elvis

 

pretty sure that management recently reconfirmed that they aren't going anywhere.

Actually no they didn't. TL stated that the Sedins will be Canucks "as long as they want to be". It's not the same thing. They could conceivably (unlikely) give JB a list to see what he could get done...you never know...crazier things have happened (Gretzky, Lanny, Sittler, Messier, Linden, Bure, Naslund even...etc etc etc)...

[Wilbur]

I think the only way the Sedin's leave before they retire is if the Canucks have no interest in resigning them after their current contracts expire so they decide to sign somewhere else.

 

It is the utmost of unlikeliness that they get traded before the expansion draft because as @Davathor said, no team will want to be forced to protect two more players.  Also remember, the most the Canucks can retain is half their salary.

 

So, that leaves the 2018 deadline.  Yes, they could be moved.  Obviously the Sedin's would have to agree with it, but I think you'll be extremely disappointed to what you'll get in return.  

Quote

Option #5  2018 TDL (Truly realistic for tankers and Trading partners)

 

Here lays the only other option other than Option #1. The Sedin's could possibly wave their NMC's  for a run at the cup and a 3 month vacation (playoffs). Teams would know their roster situation and needs. The total cost would be approx. 6 million, which could easily be manipulated, the asset cost would be manageable to the trading team.

 

The cost of this option to the Canucks is 6 million retention or a bad contract back, plus a 2nd line center and 1st line LW, on out going contracts in 2018

The cost to the trading team should be somewhere around an A prospect and a 1st to a top 10 to 12  team (Because the low amount of teams wanting them or visa versa)

(Also because they are a dual - 2 for 1 deal)

Maybe our definitions of A prospects vary, but I think you're looking at the return to be, at best, a late 1st round pick and a McCann type prospect.  Nothing to sneeze at, sure, but nothing franchise altering or to speed up to the rebuild.

 

All boils down to, in the end with the NMC's, it's up to the Sedin's.  Pretty much what everybody has been saying all along.

[fourtwentyfour]

It would be nice to move them next year at the tdl and resign them the next year for one year contracts until they are done. We could potentially move them a few more times at the tdl that way.

 

[The Lock]

The Sedins are not getting traded.

 

That is all.

[J.I.A.H.N]

45 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I think the only way the Sedin's leave before they retire is if the Canucks have no interest in resigning them after their current contracts expire so they decide to sign somewhere else.

 

It is the utmost of unlikeliness that they get traded before the expansion draft because as @Davathor said, no team will want to be forced to protect two more players.  Also remember, the most the Canucks can retain is half their salary.

 

So, that leaves the 2018 deadline.  Yes, they could be moved.  Obviously the Sedin's would have to agree with it, but I think you'll be extremely disappointed to what you'll get in return.  

Maybe our definitions of A prospects vary, but I think you're looking at the return to be, at best, a late 1st round pick and a McCann type prospect.  Nothing to sneeze at, sure, but nothing franchise altering or to speed up to the rebuild.

 

All boils down to, in the end with the NMC's, it's up to the Sedin's.  Pretty much what everybody has been saying all along.

Well in there is the rub.....if they agree to move at the 2018 TDL.......that will be 6 million retained.....how much is that worth, the Daniel and Henrik, hopefully 2nd line playoff  rentals....on out going contracts.....the 6million retained is worth 2 - 2nds, has to be, the Daniel an A project and Hank a late first....that is the least