Vince Li, Greyhound Attacker Who Beheaded Passenger,May Ask For Full Freedom

[smokes]

He may ask for full freedom but he should never be granted full freedom, especially when there are inmates who have been in jail for longer than the guy and have done less. Doctors and others can cite mental health issues but just because a person has mental health issues, he/she should not be getting a lighter term just because of it. Violent people with mental health issues should be put away period, I'm sorry you have mental health issues but I'm not sorry you are locked up.

[Down by the River]

14 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I've since completely redone my last post as it was a flurry of fonts and formatting. To your point though, once Li is granted a full discharge, according to the courts, it becomes his sole responsibility to manage his medication/treatment. If safeguards need to be put in place that require him to take his medication, is a full discharge the right choice? In my mind, not at all.

I agree. I know we might never see eye to eye about how he should be punished, I agree with you that he should not be given a full discharge and that the cost/danger to the public is too great to allow him to not have this condition in place.

 

As a bit of 'good' news, if he were to receive an absolute discharge, it doesn't remove the possibility of civil commitment. May be easier to have success here than through the justice system.

[Down by the River]

5 minutes ago, smokes said:

He may ask for full freedom but he should never be granted full freedom, especially when there are inmates who have been in jail for longer than the guy and have done less. Doctors and others can cite mental health issues but just because a person has mental health issues, he/she should not be getting a lighter term just because of it. Violent people with mental health issues should be put away period, I'm sorry you have mental health issues but I'm not sorry you are locked up.

In what way do you feel sorry for people with mental health issues?

[smokes]

5 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

In what way do you feel sorry for people with mental health issues?

I feel sorry that they have it and that society has to deal with it but that's it. 

[Hugor Hill]

6 minutes ago, smokes said:

I feel sorry that they have it but that's it. 

If you feel that he should be locked away for good, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. I fully recognize the risk of a full discharge posed to the public.

But as a Trump supporter, why are you being politically correct all the sudden? 

I asked because that's all your 'sorry' is, politically correctness, not sincerity.

If you are truly sincere about his mental health issues, then you should also feel that he should be treated differently then a true criminal who had committed this crime out of nefarious reasons.

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

15 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

I agree. I know we might never see eye to eye about how he should be punished, I agree with you that he should not be given a full discharge and that the cost/danger to the public is too great to allow him to not have this condition in place.

That's the beauty of civil discussion. I've appreciated your candor and insight in the thread.

15 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

As a bit of 'good' news, if he were to receive an absolute discharge, it doesn't remove the possibility of civil commitment. May be easier to have success here than through the justice system.

Very good point.

[Down by the River]

20 minutes ago, smokes said:

I feel sorry that they have it and that society has to deal with it but that's it. 

Why do you feel sorry that someone has a mental illness?

[smokes]

19 minutes ago, Hugor Hill said:

If you feel that he should be locked away for good, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. I fully recognize the risk of a full discharge posed to the public.

But as a Trump supporter, why are you being politically correct all the sudden? 

I asked because that's all your 'sorry' is, politically correctness, not sincerity.

If you are truly sincere about his mental health issues, then you should also feel that he should be treated differently then a true criminal who had committed this crime out of nefarious reasons.

 

 

 

Because the fact that he has mental health issues does not take away from the fact that his victim is dead. I feel 1000 time more sorry for his victim who was just taking a bus than him having his mental health issues.

[smokes]

5 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Why do you feel sorry that someone has a mental illness?

because of the impact on society when he is not properly treated.

[Dral]

On 2/7/2017 at 7:17 AM, KelownaCanucksFan said:

And the last time he went off his drugs how'd that work out for the victim, don't worry he's fine too, he was freaking beheaded and eaten. This guys should not be allowed out without direct supervision, he is a danger to the community and should be treated as such. If they do release him and he killls again then every doctor and therapist that said he is ok to be released should be held criminally responsible and do jail time.

And when the big earthquake hits Vancouver, we should also jail all the scientists who didn't accurately predict when it would happen

[Down by the River]

1 minute ago, smokes said:

because of the impact on society when he is not properly treated.

Gotcha. Just wanted to clarify that when you say " I'm sorry you have mental health issues", you actually care about the people with the mental illness. 

 

You feel sorry that society might be victim of someone with mental illness, which makes sense. Such a crime would negatively impact someone's life in a way they had no control over. That's awful. Ironically, most people with mental illness did nothing to contribute to having that mental illness. In other words, they too were impacted by something the had no control over. The logic you might have used to feel sorry for society extends to why you could have some empathy for people with a mental illness.

[smokes]

1 minute ago, Down by the River said:

Gotcha. Just wanted to clarify that when you say " I'm sorry you have mental health issues", you actually care about the people with the mental illness. 

 

You feel sorry that society might be victim of someone with mental illness, which makes sense. Such a crime would negatively impact someone's life in a way they had no control over. That's awful. Ironically, most people with mental illness did nothing to contribute to having that mental illness. In other words, they too were impacted by something the had no control over. The logic you might have used to feel sorry for society extends to why you could have some empathy for people with a mental illness.

Some people are born rich, some are born poor, some people are born intellegent, some are not, some people are born in a race that are more priveledged than others, some are not. It's life. People like to say they feel sorry for the less fortunate but how many actually are. Would you take this guy into your home just because you feel sorry for him? 

[Down by the River]

11 minutes ago, smokes said:

Some people are born rich, some are born poor, some people are born intellegent, some are not, some people are born in a race that are more priveledged than others, some are not. It's life. People like to say they feel sorry for the less fortunate but how many actually are. Would you take this guy into your home just because you feel sorry for him? 

So if you don't actually care about the misfortune of others because "it's life", you are basically just making stuff up when you previously said that you care about how mental illness impacts society. Why would you care about how mental illness impacts society? Mental illness is part of life and its impact on society is therefore part of life. 

 

I wouldn't take someone into my home just because I feel sorry for them. For one, I've already stated that he needs more consistent care. For another, you've greatly oversimplified someone's options for how they can help someone else. 

 

 

[smokes]

1 minute ago, Down by the River said:

So if you don't actually care about the misfortune of others because "it's life", you are basically just making stuff up when you previously said that you care about how mental illness impacts society. Why would you care about how mental illness impacts society? Mental illness is part of life and its impact on society is therefore part of life. 

 

I wouldn't take someone into my home just because I feel sorry for them. For one, I've already stated that he needs more consistent care. For another, you've greatly oversimplified someone's options for how they can help someone else. 

 

 

How is that making stuff up about how it impacts our society. All of a sudden I need to feel sorry for the person impacted with mental illness or I don't care about society? How about it's because I care about society so I don't feel sorry for the people who get punished for disrupting it. You go ahead and feel sorry for the person with the mental health issues, I'll go ahead and feel sorry for the victim and thier families who were impacted by this person.

[Master 112]

15 minutes ago, smokes said:

How is that making stuff up about how it impacts our society. All of a sudden I need to feel sorry for the person impacted with mental illness or I don't care about society? How about it's because I care about society so I don't feel sorry for the people who get punished for disrupting it. You go ahead and feel sorry for the person with the mental health issues, I'll go ahead and feel sorry for the victim and thier families who were impacted by this person.

But it's life.

[Hugor Hill]

49 minutes ago, smokes said:

Because the fact that he has mental health issues does not take away from the fact that his victim is dead. I feel 1000 time more sorry for his victim who was just taking a bus than him having his mental health issues.

I feel the same way, but that does not move society forward, does not benefit anyone, not least the victim and his family.

The judge's decision should be solely based on Li's liberty vs public safety + the law. As long as that is the case, whatever the judge's decision is, I'll be cool with it.

 

 

[Down by the River]

19 minutes ago, smokes said:

How is that making stuff up about how it impacts our society. All of a sudden I need to feel sorry for the person impacted with mental illness or I don't care about society? How about it's because I care about society so I don't feel sorry for the people who get punished for disrupting it. You go ahead and feel sorry for the person with the mental health issues, I'll go ahead and feel sorry for the victim and thier families who were impacted by this person.

I don't know about you, but I don't find it hard to hold two thoughts in my head simultaneously. And if I'm being honest, I don't sit around at work 'feeling sorry' for Vincent Li. I don't feel too much emotional empathy for him the way I would someone I knew personally. But there are two kinds of empathy: emotional and cognitive. At a cognitive level, I understand that wanting him to die because of something that he did not decide for himself seems against some pretty fundamental principles of justice. 

 

You are making things up because you act like you care about society, but then you say that you don't care about what happens to people because "it's life". When bad things happen to people, it impacts society. I am not stating you don't care about society simply because you don't feel sorry about one person with a mental illness. I am saying you don't care about society because you already said that whether people are born, for example, poor or someone that is not born into, as you put it 'privilege', is 'just part of life'. To me, society benefits when intelligent and hardworking people are able to succeed. Ensuring these people have outlets for their success seems important to me.

[Jägermeister]

 

1 hour ago, smokes said:

Some people are born rich, some are born poor, some people are born intellegent, some are not, some people are born in a race that are more priveledged than others, some are not. It's life. People like to say they feel sorry for the less fortunate but how many actually are. Would you take this guy into your home just because you feel sorry for him? 

How is that making stuff up about how it impacts our society. All of a sudden I need to feel sorry for the person impacted with mental illness or I don't care about society? How about it's because I care about society so I don't feel sorry for the people who get punished for disrupting it. You go ahead and feel sorry for the person with the mental health issues, I'll go ahead and feel sorry for the victim and thier families who were impacted by this person.

 

Would you let a victim of crime live in your home because you feel sorry for them?

[Standing_Tall#37]

1 hour ago, Jägermeister said:

 

 

Would you let a victim of crime live in your home because you feel sorry for them?

Quit trying to get a free place to live, just cuz someone stole your lunch money! 

[Gurn]

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎06 at 1:25 PM, gurn said:

Which would be ok, as long as he was on his meds. That is the only part of him being 'free" that has any concern to me. A to the 'Free" part, this is a guy that will live the rest of his life knowing he took another's life; and judging by the emotional trauma war vets experience, that isn't a 'free' ride.

Have a way of ensuring he takes his meds and leave him alone.

 

On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎06 at 1:49 PM, PhillipBlunt said:

To a certain extent. I've read interviews with staff that have worked with him, and when pressed with the question "Do you think Li could have another psychotic episode?", their response wasn't one of absolute certainty. More so a "most likely, if he continues to take his medication" type answer.

With all due respect, comparing the actions of war veterans to someone who transgressed into a homicidal cannibal is ridiculous and could be considered insulting to people who've suffered PTSD in combat.

 

Speaking of "no free ride", what of Tim McLean's parents and extended family, or the other passengers on the Greyhound that night, or the RCMP officers responding to the slaughter? To me, the trauma inflicted on the innocent will always hold precedent.

The best way to ensure that Li takes his meds? Incarceration. Done.

 

 

I've given a bit of thought and I'm thinking my original analogy was actually pretty close, Vince was acting under orders from  his God, while the soldiers were acting under the orders of their superiors or government.