Georgy Massey Bridge Project Cancelled

[kingofsurrey]

Georgy Massey Bridge Project Cancelled

 

Or at least for now until it is reviewed and other options looked at. 

 

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ndp-cancels-construction-on-george-massey-bridge-project

 

Great to finally have a BC government in place that cares about average working class  BC citizens  

 

Fantastic news. 

[Stelar]

17 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Georgy Massey Bridge Project Cancelled

 

Or at least for now until it is reviewed and other options looked at. 

 

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ndp-cancels-construction-on-george-massey-bridge-project

 

Great to finally have a BC government in place that cares about average working class  BC citizens  

 

Fantastic news. 

unless you are one of the working class who was set to work on the bridge. Or one of the working class trying to get around that disaster of a lower mainland.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

9 minutes ago, Stelar said:

unless you are one of the working class who was set to work on the bridge. Or one of the working class trying to get around that disaster of a lower mainland.

Exactly. This is not good news for our province. This is just the NDP trying to undo everything the liberals did just for the sake of doing it. Because if the liberals wanted it then it must be bad, right?

[kingofsurrey]

9 minutes ago, Stelar said:

unless you are one of the working class who was set to work on the bridge. Or one of the working class trying to get around that disaster of a lower mainland.

Jobs would have been probably given to off shore workers  - in the   Temporary Foreign Worker Program

Lower Mainland traffic is bad and the solution is to create better rapid  transit systems and encourage people to move closer to where they work.....

 

[inane]

4 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

Exactly. This is not good news for our province. This is just the NDP trying to undo everything the liberals did just for the sake of doing it. Because if the liberals wanted it then it must be bad, right?

No, it's because it's bad policy, bad planning and a waste of money. 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

Exactly. This is not good news for our province. This is just the NDP trying to undo everything the liberals did just for the sake of doing it. Because if the liberals wanted it then it must be bad, right?

That's actually patently untrue.  Trump is actively seeking to undo what Obama did which is evident.  The UCP in Alberta are promising to undo what the Notley NDP are doing or have done, and that is also obvious.

 

This though is exactly what they promised in their platform.  Independent review.  There is no cancellation only a suspension until they can determine the proper course of action and build.  Which is not tossing a 10 lane bridge in to 4 lanes of traffic on the corresponding side and adding tolls to pay it off.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Jobs would have been probably given to off shore workers  - in the   Temporary Foreign Worker Program

Lower Mainland traffic is bad and the solution is to create better rapid  transit systems and encourage people to move closer to where they work.....

 

Very doubtful. Now your grasping at straws in an attempt to support your argument. Local steelworkers built the new Port Mann did they not? What makes you think this bridge would be different?

 

As as far as rapid transit. I agree it is worth investing in, but it is far from a complete solution. Merely a piece in what should be a larger transportation plan that should include new infrastructure as well. 

 

Moving close to where you work sounds like a great plan, but many in the lower mainland can't afford to do that. We live in a desirable region which is one of the factors that drives our high cost of living, and you can't blame that on politics. 

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

8 minutes ago, inane said:

No, it's because it's bad policy, bad planning and a waste of money. 

How is replacing a pinch point in our transportation system with a larger crossing any of those things?

[trek]

Clickbait title .

 

They've postponed it for an independent review. $66M has already been spent on windening the highway approaches to it so they would be stupid to scrap all work on the project. It will be back. The tunnel is a disaster zone at rush hour.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's actually patently untrue.  Trump is actively seeking to undo what Obama did which is evident.  The UCP in Alberta are promising to undo what the Notley NDP are doing or have done, and that is also obvious.

 

This though is exactly what they promised in their platform.  Independent review.  There is no cancellation only a suspension until they can determine the proper course of action and build.  Which is not tossing a 10 lane bridge in to 4 lanes of traffic on the corresponding side and adding tolls to pay it off.

None of which was the OPs argument. I'm responding to this:

 

Quote

Great to finally have a BC government in place that cares about average working class  BC citizens  

 

Fantastic news. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

I'm actually going to chime in here based on actual experience  As an ironworker I had the opportunity to build numerous bridges in my professional life before my accident.  This plan was ill conceived from the start.  It would have created enormous bottlenecks and had tolls in excess of $4 per one way to pay it off.  Effectively not helping anything or anyone from the moment it would be finished.

 

I worked on the William Bennett Bridge in kelowna.  Our engineers laughed at it as did we.  Tossing 3 lanes in and 3 lanes out of Kelowna in to a 4 lane access with multiple lights within 300 meters only exacerbated the problem.  What was once basically a near seamless intersection now sees regular backups from the lakefront all the way back up the hill in to Westbank multiple times a day.

 

Slamming 10 lanes in to a 6 lane thoroughfare is the worst possible plan of action when a smaller more effective bridge made of composite materials in a cable stay manner and then having the tunnel rebuilt or retrofitted makes more sense economically as well as in an urban planning sense for traffic flow, doing that is like trying to shove a foot long sub down your gullet.

 

The NDP are doing what they promised in their platform by sending this for independent review, much like Site C.  I am very much pro work but am also even more pro common sense.  A 10 lane bridge made very little sense and the price tag was ridiculous when weighed against the potential benefits. 

 

I actually applaud this move which in no way shuts down the project but just shelves it until actual options are considered which will be more cost effective but also more common sense for future growth and needs.

[Warhippy]

Just now, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

None of which was the OPs argument. I'm responding to this:

 

 

 

Fair enough, my mistake.  Out of habit I tend to avoid Op's comments because they come off so bombastic

[kingofsurrey]

7 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

Very doubtful. Now your grasping at straws in an attempt to support your argument. Local steelworkers built the new Port Mann did they not? What makes you think this bridge would be different?

 

Really....

 

http://www.news1130.com/2017/04/30/ex-union-boss-warns-against-bc-liberals/

 

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – A former union boss is telling construction workers that BC Liberal Leader Christy Clark is no friend of working people, despite her recent jobs promise.

 

Wayne Foot, who was with Ironworkers Local 97 more than 60 years, says he doesn’t believe Clark’s pledge to give union members jobs building the new George Massey bridge.

 

That’s despite the union endorsing Clark’s Liberals for the provincial election.

 

“I haven’t seen any pen being put to paper on any deals. Some of the other guys are jumping on board, but I haven’t seen any deals signed by anybody. She’s making a lot of promises,” says Foot, the former president of the union.

 

“There’s just no requirement to put 12,000 people to work on one bridge. I mean, it’s just another false promise.”

 

“There’s no deal on it yet. It’s only going to probably hire maybe 40 Ironworkers -at the most 45.”

He says similar promises were made before contracts were awarded for the construction of the new Port Mann bridge.

“There was Local 97 Ironworkers working on there, but it wasn’t all union. I have two sons in the Ironworkers and they’re thinking, ‘I don’t want to go back to Fort McMurray.’ They want to work in British Columbia.”

During a Christy Clark campaign stop in Delta recently, some Ironworkers said they would vote Liberal because they need jobs, while others confirmed no contracts have been awarded yet and they’re worried temporary foreign workers will end up building the bridge.

[kingofsurrey]

6 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

None of which was the OPs argument. I'm responding to this:

 

 

 

http://theprovince.com/opinion/tom-sigurdson-hire-canadians-first-if-you-want-to-impose-tolls-and-fees

 

Too often we have seen temporary foreign workers brought in for various projects in an effort by contractors to save a few dollars. (In B.C., we just need to look to the examples of HD Mining, the Canada Line, and the Golden Ears Bridge to see how TFWs — and Canadian workers — have been abused by the system in place at the time.) Those foreign workers didn’t pay Canadian taxes or spend their paycheques here. And because they go home when the job is done, they don’t live in our communities and won’t have to pay those tolls that are being suggested by the Liberal government’s chief economic advisor.

[Roger Neilsons Towel]

Just now, kingofsurrey said:

Really....

 

http://www.news1130.com/2017/04/30/ex-union-boss-warns-against-bc-liberals/

 

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – A former union boss is telling construction workers that BC Liberal Leader Christy Clark is no friend of working people, despite her recent jobs promise.

 

Wayne Foot, who was with Ironworkers Local 97 more than 60 years, says he doesn’t believe Clark’s pledge to give union members jobs building the new George Massey bridge.

 

That’s despite the union endorsing Clark’s Liberals for the provincial election.

 

“I haven’t seen any pen being put to paper on any deals. Some of the other guys are jumping on board, but I haven’t seen any deals signed by anybody. She’s making a lot of promises,” says Foot, the former president of the union.

 

“There’s just no requirement to put 12,000 people to work on one bridge. I mean, it’s just another false promise.”

 

“There’s no deal on it yet. It’s only going to probably hire maybe 40 Ironworkers -at the most 45.”

He says similar promises were made before contracts were awarded for the construction of the new Port Mann bridge.

“There was Local 97 Ironworkers working on there, but it wasn’t all union. I have two sons in the Ironworkers and they’re thinking, ‘I don’t want to go back to Fort McMurray.’ They want to work in British Columbia.”

During a Christy Clark campaign stop in Delta recently, some Ironworkers said they would vote Liberal because they need jobs, while others confirmed no contracts have been awarded yet and they’re worried temporary foreign workers will end up building the bridge.

So this one union leaders' opinion is that because nothing had been signed yet that the liberals intended to not use local steelworkers to build the bridge. I guess you're not alone in the strawman department then. 

[Stelar]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I'm actually going to chime in here based on actual experience  As an ironworker I had the opportunity to build numerous bridges in my professional life before my accident.  This plan was ill conceived from the start.  It would have created enormous bottlenecks and had tolls in excess of $4 per one way to pay it off.  Effectively not helping anything or anyone from the moment it would be finished.

 

I worked on the William Bennett Bridge in kelowna.  Our engineers laughed at it as did we.  Tossing 3 lanes in and 3 lanes out of Kelowna in to a 4 lane access with multiple lights within 300 meters only exacerbated the problem.  What was once basically a near seamless intersection now sees regular backups from the lakefront all the way back up the hill in to Westbank multiple times a day.

 

Slamming 10 lanes in to a 6 lane thoroughfare is the worst possible plan of action when a smaller more effective bridge made of composite materials in a cable stay manner and then having the tunnel rebuilt or retrofitted makes more sense economically as well as in an urban planning sense for traffic flow, doing that is like trying to shove a foot long sub down your gullet.

 

The NDP are doing what they promised in their platform by sending this for independent review, much like Site C.  I am very much pro work but am also even more pro common sense.  A 10 lane bridge made very little sense and the price tag was ridiculous when weighed against the potential benefits. 

 

I actually applaud this move which in no way shuts down the project but just shelves it until actual options are considered which will be more cost effective but also more common sense for future growth and needs.

Wasn't the same thing said about the Port Mann?

[kingofsurrey]

3 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

So this one union leaders' opinion is that because nothing had been signed yet that the liberals intended to not use local steelworkers to build the bridge. I guess you're not alone in the strawman department then. 

I am just so happy to see we finally having a BC government that is keen on reviewing projects  before blindly going forward for Political points.

The BC Liberals have put this province in record debt.  Time to reign in the wasteful spending on mega projects that are not needed. 

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Stelar said:

Wasn't the same thing said about the Port Mann?

Was the Port Mann a 10 lane bridge moving directly in to an urban center?

[Canuck Surfer]

31 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

Exactly. This is not good news for our province. This is just the NDP trying to undo everything the liberals did just for the sake of doing it. Because if the liberals wanted it then it must be bad, right?

Probably more value for their voters, more influential votes to be cemented in New West & Surrey doing a Patulla Bridge project?

[inane]

9 minutes ago, Roger Neilson's Towel said:

How is replacing a pinch point in our transportation system with a larger crossing any of those things?

First of all, building more/wider roads does not solve congestion. Induced demand.

 

Second, widening this bridge to move the bottleneck down to Oak St makes no sense.

 

Third, it takes away transportation infrastructure dollars from much higher priority items. 

 

Fourth, in documents no longer available but described here, 5% of the tunnel is trucks, 1% is transit and up to 94% is single occupancy or double occupancy vehicles. BUT, up to 25% of people traveling through the tunnel are in that 1% on transit. 

 

We don't need a new 10 lane bridge. We need a parallel tunnel or a more modest bridge with significant transit investment. Transportation infrastructure is about moving goods and people. Not cars. For a multitude of reasons (health, environment, economic, etc) transit is a better investment and we already know it's way more efficient in moving people. So, why the hell would be build a massive bridge that eats up class A agricultural land that costs billions that requires km's of interchanges and on ramps and off ramps all to service the single most inefficient mode of transportation ever created? 

 

Building a new massive bridge with widened highways and all that bs is what we did in the 1950's. We can't build out and more, we gotta build up and smarter. Transit infrastructure is where this money should be spent so it opens up space on the road for those who actually need it like goods movement.