Tystick Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I like the idea but I'm a big fan of keeping things simple. Go back to the way it was. Where you finish in the standings is where you pick in the draft (31st = 1st overall). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I posted what I thought would be a solution to the draft lottery and protection from tanking. I posted it and unfortunately I used two non swear words together which got me banned for a month and the entire post deleted instead of just removing either word from the topic head line. I say this because it was fairly inclusive of all concerns. Essentially, the average standings over a three or more year period with only the bottom two or three in the lottery, limitations on the number 1 pick and amount of time a team is crappy moving them down the order in the first round only. The solution allowed for helping the bad teams, which was the intent of the draft and limited the really bad run teams. This is not what I posted but the idea also had chronically bad teams being moved to the #4 and descending if they remained at the bottom for a number of years. Ties were broken by wins over the 3 or whatever years. More wins, better draft spot for the first three or eligible teams, which may be the 4th, 5th, or 6th depending upon the bottom 3 teams and the number of years at the bottom, with draft selection also included. Anyway, it eliminated tanking, helped the bottom teams and was fair to all teams, the idea only affected the first round so in theory a cup champ that finished dead last could still be able to have the top pick in the second and subsequent rounds and picking at the highest, 4th in the first round, with the playoffs eliminating a top three pick, the team with the next worst average of the time period would then bump up if one of the bottom three had too many top 3 picks in the previous years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I like Shane Doan's idea. "The day you're mathematically eliminated, you start accumulating points. When you get to the end of the year, whoever's accumulated the most points gets the first overall pick." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said: I like Shane Doan's idea. "The day you're mathematically eliminated, you start accumulating points. When you get to the end of the year, whoever's accumulated the most points gets the first overall pick." In a single season, injuries, suspensions, retirements or any number of other oddities could damage a team that really needs the help, better to take an average. No owner wants to be a bottom feeder for an extended time. Count the wins then. A good team would/could just tank earlier, lose a game to make elimination and then "turn it around". I wouldn't be the first time a GM kept a star player in the minors until a set time to suit the rules. Just look at how many teams did really crappy in the McDavid draft year, around 10 missed the playoffs so they were in the lottery for him and some teams made the playoffs only that year, a blip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, TheGuardian_ said: In a single season, injuries, suspensions, retirements or any number of other oddities could damage a team that really needs the help, better to take an average. No owner wants to be a bottom feeder for an extended time. Count the wins then. A good team would/could just tank earlier, lose a game to make elimination and then "turn it around". I wouldn't be the first time a GM kept a star player in the minors until a set time to suit the rules. Just look at how many teams did really crappy in the McDavid draft year, around 10 missed the playoffs so they were in the lottery for him and some teams made the playoffs only that year, a blip. It would be hard for the first team to be mathematically eliminated to 'turn it around' if their record has been that bad. Giving them a head start is reasonable, and teams that haven't been nearly as bad have a good chance at the first overall pick - though they start late, they have a chance at the first overall pick given their better record prior to being eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: It would be hard for the first team to be mathematically eliminated to 'turn it around' if their record has been that bad. Giving them a head start is reasonable, and teams that haven't been nearly as bad have a good chance at the first overall pick - though they start late, they have a chance at the first overall pick given their better record prior to being eliminated. Butt then they only have to manipulate one or two months of a season, maybe even just a couple of weeks. Then you have the problem of different conferences and divisions strengths. A team in one division may be out two weeks before the other division or at the last game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 On 12/18/2017 at 11:11 AM, smokes said: I clearly remember it being discussed that the representatives were there for the unveiling of the results but did not actually see the lottery balls coming up. Francesco Aquilini was present in the room as the Vancouver representative when the lottery was drawn. https://www.nhl.com/video/inside-the-draft-lottery-room/t-288687876/c-51768703 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Butt then they only have to manipulate one or two months of a season, maybe even just a couple of weeks. Then you have the problem of different conferences and divisions strengths. A team in one division may be out two weeks before the other division or at the last game of the season. It isn't possible for a team to be mathematically eliminated in the first few months, that would happen in the fifth or sixth month of the season. If a team has been bad for several months, it's going to be hard for them to create a winning environment especially if they are facing teams that are battling for a playoff spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 hour ago, -Vintage Canuck- said: It isn't possible for a team to be mathematically eliminated in the first few months, that would happen in the fifth or sixth month of the season. If a team has been bad for several months, it's going to be hard for them to create a winning environment especially if they are facing teams that are battling for a playoff spot. Okay then, the last couple of weeks, some teams like Arizona will be out much earlier that a team on the last day so who wins then? Or two teams are out on the same day but one has 3 injured star players coming back. There is not enough time to have a "draft tournament" and at that why would players try to get a better draft pick? Some of them would be bumped off the team. That is why I suggest the average standings over a 3 or 4 season period. Much too hard to "plan" for a dip or pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 59 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Okay then, the last couple of weeks, some teams like Arizona will be out much earlier that a team on the last day so who wins then? The only thing that would matter would be points after being eliminated. If the team was eliminated on the last day of the regular season, that would mean they had a chance to make the playoffs, a step closer to the cup. Since they missed the playoffs by a couple or less points, they would be picking outside of the top 10. Quote Or two teams are out on the same day but one has 3 injured star players coming back. There are a lot of scenarios, but it would challenge the GM to build the team in a different way if they are rebuilding. Quote There is not enough time to have a "draft tournament" and at that why would players try to get a better draft pick? Some of them would be bumped off the team. That is not something the player could control - it is up to the GM. If the player is replaceable and they couldn't get a draft pick that is NHL-ready, wouldn't the GM just get a placeholder through Free Agency? Quote That is why I suggest the average standings over a 3 or 4 season period. Much too hard to "plan" for a dip or pick. There is no perfect system, they all have their own drawbacks. I did like Doan's idea - it's a good starting point and could be altered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I can't imagine players battling it out with all their might for a draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 On 2017-12-17 at 6:06 AM, smokes said: Personally, I don't like the draft lottery system as it leaves everything to chance and bad teams can still be rewarded. Since first overall draft picks usually turn out to be stars, I don't think it is fair to reward them to the worst team in the league. I propose to have all non playoff teams play a tournament with the winner being awarded the first overall selection. It will make it more interesting from a fan standpoint and for the owners, they can make a few extra dolloars from playing these games and teams won't be rewarded for incompetency. Maybe play during in between rounds of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Good idea? Bad idea? The reason for giving the last place team the first pick is improve the team and create a more equal level of competition throughout the league. your idea is no better than the government. Help the rich, screw the poor. All your plan does is insure the poor teams never get a fair chance to improve, and the top stays at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chon derry Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 On 2017-12-17 at 6:06 AM, smokes said: Personally, I don't like the draft lottery system as it leaves everything to chance and bad teams can still be rewarded. Since first overall draft picks usually turn out to be stars, I don't think it is fair to reward them to the worst team in the league. I propose to have all non playoff teams play a tournament with the winner being awarded the first overall selection. It will make it more interesting from a fan standpoint and for the owners, they can make a few extra dolloars from playing these games and teams won't be rewarded for incompetency. Maybe play during in between rounds of the Stanley Cup playoffs. Good idea? Bad idea? so 14 teams play and theres a chance that the team that was in 30th place could win , but not likely , and theres a chance that the team that was in 17th could actually win , more likely. this is terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted December 24, 2017 Author Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, drummerboy said: The reason for giving the last place team the first pick is improve the team and create a more equal level of competition throughout the league. your idea is no better than the government. Help the rich, screw the poor. All your plan does is insure the poor teams never get a fair chance to improve, and the top stays at the top. Not necessarily, at least it'll give the Canucks a chance. Canucks get 5th overall two years in a row, dropped in the lottery, Winnipeg comes in grabs Laine, Flyers grab Patrick. It's not like the system is doing what your saying effectively. One can argue though that the prospects may actually do better in a moderately winning environment. I was all for helping out the bottom feeding teams getting a handout. What happens? The bottom feeding teams mess up on the player's development. One can argue that RNH among a plethora of players trapped in Arizona, Buffalo, Edmonton and soon you can add Colorado to the mix. First overalls or early draft picks end up not living up to expectations because most of the time they have that savior mantle that wears like a stack of bricks on these guys. Look at players like McKinnen, Reinhart, and RNH compared to even some players who were drafted after them. Take a great prospect and put him in a mediocre team and watch him reach his potential more naturally or a bottom team who will probably throw them into the fire whether they are ready or not because they were the bottom feeding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 28 minutes ago, smokes said: Not necessarily, at least it'll give the Canucks a chance. A chance at what? Not getting high picks? Your idea keeps bottom teams at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted December 24, 2017 Author Share Posted December 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, drummerboy said: A chance at what? Not getting high picks? Your idea keeps bottom teams at the bottom. So you mean Arizona, Buffalo, Edmonton and Colorado have not been bottom teams for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 I think that lottery should be removed in favor of a head to head match-up during the season to determine the draft order rather than overall standing due to different strength of schedule and strength of a division. Maybe a record amongst non-playoff teams should determine the draft order or the record amongst the last place team in a division the worst overall record against them should get the first overall pick and most often, that match-up tend to be early in the season to mid-season so no way that they would tank that certain game so maybe this should be the way to determine the draft order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 On 22/12/2017 at 11:58 AM, -Vintage Canuck- said: I like Shane Doan's idea. "The day you're mathematically eliminated, you start accumulating points. When you get to the end of the year, whoever's accumulated the most points gets the first overall pick." This here is a great idea. The worst team would have the best chance of having the highest pick due to being eliminated first. OPs idea is just terrible. More often then not it would leave fridge playoff teams gaining top end talent and teams like us, who need those picks, struggling with a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 On 12/22/2017 at 11:58 AM, -Vintage Canuck- said: I like Shane Doan's idea. "The day you're mathematically eliminated, you start accumulating points. When you get to the end of the year, whoever's accumulated the most points gets the first overall pick." 100% yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 After getting boned the past two lottery's, just after the league stepped in and changed the rules to discourage tanking, I'm not a fan of it at all. They should have never done this in the first place, it was a knee jerk reaction to a once in a moon situation where there was two franchise prospects in one year and the worst team ( Buffalo) was gauranteed one of them. It's only happened a few times in the history of the draft (Lafluer/Dionne,McDavid/Eichel..maybe) and a handful of Tyler/Taylor's which at this point I would include Mathews/Laine in. Under the cap, drafting is that much more important to a clubs success, and I don't think keeping bad teams down is healthy long term for the NHL as fans stop going to games. I think they went one spot too far with it, and maybe the way to do it is the worst teams in each division or eight should qualify, and after that the remainder pick in order of overall points. And the most you can drop is one, not two spots out of the top eight. It would change things up to avoid tanking to a degree, and not allow a team that barely missed the playoffs to poach the best players like Philly did last draft, and to a lesser degree, NJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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