Has the Western World Lost Moderate/Centrist Politics?

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't know the full details of the Edmonton thing - were the people vocal about a certain pov or just banned because they belonged to the rcmp e.g.? here I heard that its fine to show up just not in uniform.

 

I think there are a few things going on here. There's a lot of people including some feminists who have problems with the "T" part of LGBTQ, there are people on the right who want to "prove" they aren't the intolerant ones, and there are some people in pride organization going too far (which sounds like what maybe happened in Edmonton). That whole issue still needs to play out. My guess is in 20 years people will need to be reminded that anti-trans views was a thing. 

 

But free speech doesn't mean you get to say or do or go to anything you want to. Maybe its ultimately a mistake by organizers, maybe not, we'll see, but its their event and their choice. But to have someone clearly on the anti-pride spectrum trying to use this to prop up their views is kind of vile to me. 

Could students from Gage Towers walk in the parade representing their residence?  Or would they be denied because their residence is part of UBC, and the Pride organizers don’t want UBC represented?  So some people spoke at UBC expressing their ignorant views.  Go and educate those people.  Don’t exclude them, and try to muzzle them.  Talk to them person to person.  This taking sides and attacking the University only makes things worse, IMO.  

[Boeserker]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

There's lots of nasty treatment of Metis, you can go research that yourself.

 

What's 'stuffed in your face' precisely? 

 

No they are not becoming what they fear the most, that's nonsense. Are they jumping out of trucks and beating them to death? Chemically castrating anyone? Killing careers? Get some perspective. 

 

"Nasty Treatment" = Denial of existence" Okee dokee

 

I'm not going to repeat myself for you, I can see through your tactics. 

 

Yes, they are. They are becoming the right. Intolerant of others.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

It's not a free speech issue, you seem to not understand that basic idea. 

 

Well then what is it, in your mind?

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Certainly at the University level (you follow the news, but can provide you lots of examples from Canada if you wish let alone here where it is just as bad).   From family in Canada (Ontario and Alberta), I understand that even sports days now are all about equality of outcome.    That is insane let alone it is being taught in the social sciences.   Given how this emerging generation seems to have so many that feel that they are "owed" something by society, it is hard to see how that didn't happen without the education system playing a large role.

Sounds like “Harrison Bergeron”.

Handicap those who have advantage, so we all fall to the level of the lowest.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Could students from Gage Towers walk in the parade representing their residence?  Or would they be denied because their residence is part of UBC, and the Pride organizers don’t want UBC represented?  So some people spoke at UBC expressing their ignorant views.  Go and educate those people.  Don’t exclude them, and try to muzzle them.  Talk to them person to person.  This taking sides and attacking the University only makes things worse, IMO.  

My understanding is they don't want the UBC banner, that's all. People are just fine.

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sounds like “Harrison Bergeron”.

Handicap those who have advantage, so we all fall to the level of the lowest.  

If you handicap anyone with an advantage you would "fall to the level" of average, not lowest.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Boeserker said:

 

"Nasty Treatment" = Denial of existence" Okee dokee

 

I'm not going to repeat myself for you, I can see through your tactics. 

 

Yes, they are. They are becoming the right. Intolerant of others.

 

 

 

Well then what is it, in your mind?

They are not tolerant of people that deny trans rights. That's a legitimate position for them to have.

 

It's not 'in my mind' - no one has a right to be in a parade. 

 

What tactics? 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

the issue with that tho Alf is every event that got a legitimate permit would have to include anyone that felt like participating, just because its on public streets. Clearly thats not how things do and should work. Nazi's and Santa don't mix.

 

you're actually asking for 2 things here - to both have your free speech rights, and to infringe on someone else's event. 

 

This is the problem with the current alt-right, they like to try to use legitimate issues like free speech and convince you that something is being taken away from you. They want to personalize it so you sympathize with their pov, but when you dig just a little bit you usually find the real intolerance. 

 

Of course there's a debate to be had over inclusion, but its not about free speech and its not about public spaces. Both are red herrings. 

I think the University people who support the Pride Parade should be welcomed to participate, and carry the banner of their University proudly.  It’s a parade about Pride, right?  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

I think the University people who support the Pride Parade should be welcomed to participate, and carry the banner of their University proudly.  It’s a parade about Pride, right?  

Well, I guess it depends on what your personal struggle is. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

My understanding is they don't want the UBC banner, that's all. People are just fine.

Could kids wear their UBC hoodies, jackets, and clothing?  It sure sounds like the Pride people are trying to control who UBC allows to speak on campus.  IMO that’s wrong.  

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, gurn said:

If you handicap anyone with an advantage you would "fall to the level" of average, not lowest.

What about those who are born with a handicap?  They would feel less than average, wouldn’t they?  It’s been a very long time since I read the story.  

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

t sure sounds like the Pride people are trying to control who UBC allows to speak on campus

They are controlling who can be in their parade, that is all.

UBC is free to allow who ever they want to speak at their university.

 

Layman's terms.

you can say whatever you want in your house, but when over at my place chose your words wisely or gTFO

[JM_]

Just now, Alflives said:

Could kids wear their UBC hoodies, jackets, and clothing?  It sure sounds like the Pride people are trying to control who UBC allows to speak on campus.  IMO that’s wrong.  

I think it's about UBC being officially there, I doubt anyone cares about a hoodie.

 

Pride organizers can't control who says what on campus. But they can decide who's in the parade, and they clearly think UBC crossed a line by allowing speakers they see as hateful. Both are within their rights.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Well, I guess it depends on what your personal struggle is. 

I would think the vast majority of UBC students support the gay people.  Having those kids march with a UBC banner would show that just because the university encourages free speech, doesn’t mean that the students don’t support gay people. 

[JM_]

Just now, Alflives said:

I would think the vast majority of UBC students support the gay people.  Having those kids march with a UBC banner would show that just because the university encourages free speech, doesn’t mean that the students don’t support gay people. 

Why is the ubc banner so important to you? Can you not understand why pride organizers would have concerns?

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

They are controlling who can be in their parade, that is all.

UBC is free to allow who ever they want to speak at their university.

 

Layman's terms.

you can say whatever you want in your house, but when over at my place chose your words wisely or gTFO

The Pride parade is public and fully inclusive.  It’s not their house; it’s our house.  As a person who watches every year, I would throw empty bottles at people who were trying to ruin the parade.  Still, UBC kids should fully be allowed (and encouraged) to march in the parade carrying their school’s banner.  It shows the kids are in support of the gay people.  

[JM_]

@Alflives turn on 980 right now if u can- they are talking about why pride took this position 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Why is the ubc banner so important to you? Can you not understand why pride organizers would have concerns?

Of course I can understand the concerns of gay people.  It’s terrible how some of those men are mistreated.  Still, it’s better to confront the bigots and the ignorant with dialogue, than to try and control where they can spread their stupidity.  There are idiots who used to come to the parade every year, who were looking for trouble.  I heard their comments.  They were usually young men, and the police usually got them.  I’ve seen almost none the last couple parades.  People like the parade, and it’s fun.  However, that’s not the point.  The point is the gay people shouldn’t be trying to control who speaks at UBC. 

[bishopshodan]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I can cite many who think the influence is vastly overstated

I think everyone gets that the climate is always changing. 

The question is how much the current humans are affecting this cycle.

 

These dudes are on the other side of the fence from your beliefs. I their guess data only goes back 2000 years though. 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/climate-scientists-drive-stake-through-heart-skeptics-argument-ncna1033646

Global warming skeptics sometimes say rising temperatures are just another naturally occurring shift in Earth’s climate, like the Medieval Warm Period of the years 800 to 1200 or the Little Ice Age, a period of cooling that spanned from roughly 1300 to 1850.

But a pair of studies published Wednesday provides stark evidence that the rise in global temperatures over the past 150 years has been far more rapid and widespread than any warming period in the past 2,000 years — a finding that undercuts claims that today’s global warming isn’t necessarily the result of human activity.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Of course I can understand the concerns of gay people.  It’s terrible how some of those men are mistreated.  Still, it’s better to confront the bigots and the ignorant with dialogue, than to try and control where they can spread their stupidity.  There are idiots who used to come to the parade every year, who were looking for trouble.  I heard their comments.  They were usually young men, and the police usually got them.  I’ve seen almost none the last couple parades.  People like the parade, and it’s fun.  However, that’s not the point.  The point is the gay people shouldn’t be trying to control who speaks at UBC. 

if you had a chance to listen to the story on 980 I think its clearer whats going on. The pride organizers were pretty hurt by the VPLs decision to host an anti-trans person. Its obviously very important to them, and their event. 

 

But thats nothing like the pride organizers "becoming like their oppressors" as some here want to suggest. If that were true, they'd be banning all straight people. 

 

The organizers clearly thought a lot about their decision and made their stand on it. I get some people don't like it but its a situation where they felt they needed to stick to their principles. 

 

This is actually a case where everyone has exercised their rights and no one is technically in the wrong. IMO people should try a little harder to understand the position of the organizers before reacting so harshly. You may not ultimately agree with them but might at least see more of the whole picture. 

[JM_]

whats with all the confused faces @Boeserker  should i use more memes?