Has the Western World Lost Moderate/Centrist Politics?

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Come to a conclusion.   

 

• Extreme left - they want equality of outcome irrespective of how qualified or how hard people work towards a given outcome.   What is yours is theirs and they will exhaust all avenues to make that happen.   Government (huge) exists to distribute all the wealth equally.   

 

• Extreme right - they want inequality of outcome based upon social/inherited/assigned advantage.   What is yours is theirs and they will exhaust all avenues to make that happen.   Government (small) exists to protect their rights to maintain the inequality.

 

• Centrist - equality of opportunity.   What you earn is yours.  Those who cannot property earn are aided.   Government (right sized) exists to help those who cannot help themselves.  

 

Based upon society debate (use the US as the example and CDC as a microcosm), seemingly very few in the middle.   It is getting lonely here.    

Right wing governance has expanded all levels of government above what the left has done but cut funding to do it.

 

Your summation is close but wildly inaccurate and based off of extremes.

 

You're also no centrist.

[canuckistani]

23 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Right wing governance has expanded all levels of government above what the left has done but cut funding to do it.

 

Your summation is close but wildly inaccurate and based off of extremes.

 

You're also no centrist.

Qualitative proof please that right wing govts have expanded all levels of governance. 

[canuckistani]

On 7/20/2019 at 9:25 AM, Rob_Zepp said:

Come to a conclusion.   

 

• Extreme left - they want equality of outcome irrespective of how qualified or how hard people work towards a given outcome.   What is yours is theirs and they will exhaust all avenues to make that happen.   Government (huge) exists to distribute all the wealth equally.   

 

• Extreme right - they want inequality of outcome based upon social/inherited/assigned advantage.   What is yours is theirs and they will exhaust all avenues to make that happen.   Government (small) exists to protect their rights to maintain the inequality.

 

• Centrist - equality of opportunity.   What you earn is yours.  Those who cannot property earn are aided.   Government (right sized) exists to help those who cannot help themselves.  

 

Based upon society debate (use the US as the example and CDC as a microcosm), seemingly very few in the middle.   It is getting lonely here.    

Welcome to the center in the west, it’s practically non existent because of ridiculous adherence to good vs bad model of ethics.

[Warhippy]

36 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

Qualitative proof please that right wing govts have expanded all levels of governance. 

Open your eyes.  Pay attention and simply use google.  I refuse to do your homework for you because quite honestly I cannot stand you as I find you to be pedantic and quite honestly boorish in your endless need to be correct.  Theres' FTG and Oldnews and you manage to somehow be more smarmy than both.

 

I've asked you not respond to me numerous times yet here you are.  So, go look for yourself.  Anyone else i'd happily provide proof, you?  Not a damned chance

[canuckistani]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Open your eyes.  Pay attention and simply use google.  I refuse to do your homework for you because quite honestly I cannot stand you as I find you to be pedantic and quite honestly boorish in your endless need to be correct.  Theres' FTG and Oldnews and you manage to somehow be more smarmy than both.

 

I've asked you not respond to me numerous times yet here you are.  So, go look for yourself.  Anyone else i'd happily provide proof, you?  Not a damned chance

Ergo, your claim is unsubstantiated. Thanks. I am not surprised that communist leaning folks tend to run away or shut down conversation with those who have experience with communists. Correctness is not a need, by the way, its an ethical obligation to strive for. Something extremists from both ends forget. 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

Ergo, your claim is unsubstantiated. Thanks. I am not surprised that communist leaning folks tend to run away or shut down conversation with those who have experience with communists. Correctness is not a need, by the way, its an ethical obligation to strive for. Something extremists from both ends forget. 

Ergo, I refuse to do your work for you because i can't stand you

 

Don't confuse the two.  Quite simply I am saying you're literally not worth the time it would take to search it up.  As in I've spent thirty seconds more responding to you than I ever wanted to and feel the need to wash my hands because of it.

 

As for your statement of "communist folks"  Lol, that's your absolute again.  Someone doesn't like you, agree with you or finds you to effectively be worth less than hot dog leavings on a summer sidewalk and obviously it's them not you.

 

Obviously

 

Edit*  You should probably run to management now and tell them I told you how little I think of you and your feelings are hurt and that I should be in trouble for it.  Or something of the sort.  Or, just stop responding to me finally like I've been asking; as your being on ignore is obviously not working since I keep getting notifications

Edited July 21, 2019 by Warhippy

[canuckistani]

22 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Ergo, I refuse to do your work for you because i can't stand you

Being able to stand your opposition or not does not release you from the ethical burden of substantiating your claims.

Quote

Don't confuse the two.  Quite simply I am saying you're literally not worth the time it would take to search it up.  As in I've spent thirty seconds more responding to you than I ever wanted to and feel the need to wash my hands because of it.

 

As for your statement of "communist folks"  Lol, that's your absolute again.  Someone doesn't like you, agree with you or finds you to effectively be worth less than hot dog leavings on a summer sidewalk and obviously it's them not you.

 

Obviously

Red herring, since I don’t accuse everyone who disagrees with me as a communist leaning. Anyways, a cop out is par for the course. This is not for my benefit but for everyone who reads these threads, to see that your statement is unsubstantiated. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by canuckistani

[Rob_Zepp]

On 7/20/2019 at 11:50 AM, Warhippy said:

You're also no centrist.

There you are incorrect.    I find those on both extremes quite entertaining but idealistically naive and (if in power) dangerous.   I do tend to think that left-wing extremists are more dangerous...they have killed and oppressed more people in human history.    I also think identity politics are naive and dangerous - but I know you disagree on that too as you seem to be all about such.    Cheers and Go Canucks!

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

There you are incorrect.    I find those on both extremes quite entertaining but idealistically naive and (if in power) dangerous.   I do tend to think that left-wing extremists are more dangerous...they have killed and oppressed more people in human history.    I also think identity politics are naive and dangerous - but I know you disagree on that too as you seem to be all about such.    Cheers and Go Canucks!

Of course yes, I.  Me.  An immigrant.  In my own country.

 

Carry on

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Of course yes, I.  Me.  An immigrant.  In my own country.

 

Carry on

cut him some slack, he thinks he's African 

[Down by the River]

On 9/15/2018 at 10:36 PM, canuckistani said:

 

Except in this case, i can empirically prove, with mathematics, that taxation is a superior system of resource distribution and access than individual freebooting. So yes, love

For someone that loves math so much it is funny to never see you actually use any to support what you say . 

[Down by the River]

On 7/20/2019 at 9:25 AM, Rob_Zepp said:

Come to a conclusion.   

 

• Extreme left - they want equality of outcome irrespective of how qualified or how hard people work towards a given outcome.   What is yours is theirs and they will exhaust all avenues to make that happen.   Government (huge) exists to distribute all the wealth equally.   

 

• Extreme right - they want inequality of outcome based upon social/inherited/assigned advantage.   What is yours is theirs and they will exhaust all avenues to make that happen.   Government (small) exists to protect their rights to maintain the inequality.

 

• Centrist - equality of opportunity.   What you earn is yours.  Those who cannot property earn are aided.   Government (right sized) exists to help those who cannot help themselves.  

 

Based upon society debate (use the US as the example and CDC as a microcosm), seemingly very few in the middle.   It is getting lonely here.    

Maybe it is because you don't have a good understanding of what being a centrist is, and so you don't recognize it? For example, saying that racism is bad, but then also saying that we shouldn't spend so much time calling out racists, is moreso trying to sit on a fence than it is being a centrist.

 

You are not going to find a lot of centrists because they are going to find a lot of online discussions meaningless and won't bother to engage because both extremes are exhausting. 

[Rob_Zepp]

9 hours ago, Down by the River said:

Maybe it is because you don't have a good understanding of what being a centrist is, and so you don't recognize it? For example, saying that racism is bad, but then also saying that we shouldn't spend so much time calling out racists, is moreso trying to sit on a fence than it is being a centrist.

 

You are not going to find a lot of centrists because they are going to find a lot of online discussions meaningless and won't bother to engage because both extremes are exhausting. 

I have never said don't call out racists, I have said it is a waste of time for hypocrites to do so.   I do find it interesting how those from the two end extremes (and CDC seems to have them) automatically label someone as the other extreme if they get triggered by an issue....particularly, I find, one that they somehow feel they need to champion.    

 

The world seems to be confused as to what centrist means.   Once upon a time it meant (and to some of us it still does) that you push for equal opportunity but resist all attempts at equal outcome.   You willingly pay towards a just society but only agree to wealth transfer to those who truly need it (e.g. cannot take care of themselves - choosing not to succeed or take care of oneself does not qualify one for societal support).    You embrace policies that are for the good of the majority.  Further, you resist disingenuous policies that divide versus unite - we call come from one common ancestor and people need to get over themselves who push for otherwise.   Finally, you allow people to simply live their lives as long as they are not harming another human (being offended does not equal harm - geez) then all good - love what you want, marry what you want, sleep with what you want, who cares as long as no one else is harmed and there is consenting relationships involved - but don't tell anyone else your situation is the only one.

 

Label away but that is what a few people still think.   I know we are in the minority.

[Rob_Zepp]

10 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

cut him some slack, he thinks he's African 

At some point, all of us came from Africa.   Does that offend you?    Wow.    

[JM_]

31 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

At some point, all of us came from Africa.   Does that offend you?    Wow.    

its interesting that your response to someone that disagrees with you is they must be "offended" by something you said. Very telling. 

[Down by the River]

32 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

At some point, all of us came from Africa.   Does that offend you?    Wow.    

I think you are confusing people making fun of you for people being offended. 

[Lancaster]

Voters aren't going to either extremes, just politics is just being refined and politicians knows that appealing to the lowest common denominator will garner the most votes.

To curry favour from the left.... preach about giving more, taxing the rich more and "more equal rights".

To garner the right-of-centre votes.... preach about "us versus the barbarians outside the gates", lower taxes, more freedom.  

 

The more extreme the message, the better attention grabber.  

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Down by the River said:

I think you are confusing people making fun of you for people being offended. 

 

Oh, I am hardly confused.   Just remember some wise words - "don't take criticism seriously if it comes from someone who you would not go to for advice".   In terms of that particular issue, the ability for some to take such and make it divisive isn't really something that is "fun".....I find it quite sad and pathetic.

 

I see some people was seriously confused and insecure in their political shells - and are surprisingly racist when it comes down to it (promoting inequality by race etc.).    I think when logic and science enter the room they tend to go for the identify political defense as it is all that is left.   

[JM_]

49 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 

Oh, I am hardly confused.   Just remember some wise words - "don't take criticism seriously if it comes from someone who you would not go to for advice".   In terms of that particular issue, the ability for some to take such and make it divisive isn't really something that is "fun".....I find it quite sad and pathetic.

 

I see some people was seriously confused and insecure in their political shells - and are surprisingly racist when it comes down to it (promoting inequality by race etc.).    I think when logic and science enter the room they tend to go for the identify political defense as it is all that is left.   

 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

 

Oh, I am hardly confused.   Just remember some wise words - "don't take criticism seriously if it comes from someone who you would not go to for advice".   In terms of that particular issue, the ability for some to take such and make it divisive isn't really something that is "fun".....I find it quite sad and pathetic.

 

I see some people was seriously confused and insecure in their political shells - and are surprisingly racist when it comes down to it (promoting inequality by race etc.).    I think when logic and science enter the room they tend to go for the identify political defense as it is all that is left.   

He's a "centrist"