Canucks Teams: Most Underrated?

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

I think the just of his argument is that Luongo's 'really bad' games, outweighed his 'really good' games in the playoffs.  Just because he had two shutouts in that Final, does not negate the plethora of goals against in other games, and at the very worst times. Usually in multiples as it seemed that the more emotional Lu would still be reliving the last goal against when the next one sailed past.  As far as not much offense, there were other factors: our injuries, the refs putting away the whistle which went totally against AV's mantra of turning the other cheek and getting them back on the PP, and also there is a quantitative effect on a team that is scored on often and early. And the opposite more positive effect on the scoring team in regards to momentum. This happened in both game 6 and 7.  Sorry, but Lu was one of our weak links in the pressure of the 2011 Final, all things balance

The thing is his bad games are brought up way more than his good games, and he became something of a scapegoat.   I agree he didn't save us like he could have and we all were hoping he would because at that point it was obvious we couldn't get a pea past Thomas (including all the extra PPs we did get, more than Boston) , and we were all let down.    He doesn't deserve the goat mantle which was the point I was trying to make with a different poster who's contribution to the dialogue is finding his worse games and posting them.  What about all his good games? It's a team sport, defense matters too, and most all HHOF with the exception of Parent in PHI and Dryden in MTL and maybe Hasek also lost important games at various points in their careers, some by blowouts, but that doesn't come up because they won cups.   Luongo isn't a clutch performer or we'd have one right? But he's was far from bad.

[NHL97OneTimer]

On 8/24/2018 at 2:28 AM, City-in-state-of-emergency said:

The 81-82 Team stands out to me also 94-95 both teams were playing poorly at the start and looked to be out of the playoffs but made the Finals. For the Canucks to win a cup they gotta stay out of New York.

And apparently Boston..........any big US market city perhaps.

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

And apparently Boston..........any big US market city perhaps.

Soooo...we need to play a Canadian team.  Watch out TO, we had your number in 94 when your Gilmour girls thought it was your turn after 93.  5 games.  Ha ha.

[Phat Fingers]

On 2018-08-23 at 11:18 PM, apollo said:

The dog days of summer got me reminiscing on some old Canuck teams... so I thought I'd make a thread and stir some conversation!

 

Which Vancouver Canucks team was underrated? Curious to hear what others think as I only started following the team in 2000 and missed many golden years... Boy what I would pay to have been around during the early 90s.... especially '94

 

 

 

2001-2002 Vancouver Canucks

 

• The team started slow but really gelled as the season went on. After trading for Trevor Linden, the team was completely rejuvenated. With Trevor, they were a top 3 team in the NHL IMO. Sadly because of their poor start, they ended up playing the Red Wings in round one of the playoffs who also were top 3.
• Vancouver had one of the most high octane scoring machines the NHL had EVER seen. Led by the West Coast Express, Vancouver finished FIRST in the league with 254 goals this year. Could argue this club was equal to the legendary 2010-2011 Canucks who (262 goals)
  • Fun fact... Red Wings also 2nd in the league in goals both 2002 and 2011 which we became first in... here's to Detroit becoming 2nd in goals again this year too  
• WCE absolutely does not get enough credit - Head to head against Detroit's overpaid players they fully come on top
  • Naslund 90 Points & Bertuzzi at 85 points... no Red Wing even came close that year. B-Mo also had most their team outscored
  • Shanahan had a measly 75 points, Fedorov 68, Hull 63, Lidstrom 9 goals, Robataille 50, Yzerman 48, Larionov 43...
• Aside from goal-tending*(absolutely no disrespect to Cloutier) you could argue that this was the best group of skaters in the league and thus underrated as heck! Put Hasek on this team and it's a guaranteed cup and a repeat the next two years... this team was 1 Hasek away from a Dynasty. If only Aquaman was flexing his wallet instead of McCaw & Co  
• Lets not forget the Sedins taking huge steps that year... Henrik with 3 incredible goals in the series versus Detroit.
  • Matt Cooke was amazing that year too as was he in the next 2 seasons for us. Matt led the team in playoff scoring with 5 points in 6 games and 33 points in the regular season with a respectable +4 rating and 111 PIMS
• What more could make this team even further underrated? How about less than HALF the salary cap of their first round opponents David vs Goliath... few teams spent less than what Vancouver did this year... Below is a comparison.

 

2001–02

Canucks Cap $29,984,579

21.38%

$900,000

Trevor Linden Markus Naslund

$4,000,000

 

2001–02

Red Wings $66,643,750[12]

20.93%

$1,300,000

Nicklas Lidstrom

$8,500,000

 

 

The 2001-02 Canucks didn't end up winning the cup... but I'll always respect them as one of the most explosive and entertaining teams I ever witnessed. Certainly one of the best offensive teams the NHL has ever had.

 

They really don't get enough credit because they lost in the first round... say what you want, but those first two games vs Detroit were absolutely scintillating. The team went into Motown and absolutely embarrassed them in front of their home crowd.

 

 

 

FOOT NOTES

*Also I mean absolutely zero disrespect to Dan by mentioning goaltending... I think he was absolutely stellar up until the Lidstrom goal... I'll never forget him shutting out Detroit in December of that year. No one expected us to win that game but he closed the door and we won 3-0

**For what it's worth, I also think the 2010-2011 team was also extremely underrated - probably the best team of the century, yet they don't get the global respect they deserve.
***I forgot how much I hated Detroit for this

 

Agree with the WCE team. Really the issue was Burke and his inability to draft, scout, sign or trade for a goalie. 

 

Blame McCaw but Burke struggled with goalies as a GM his whole career. The cup he won with the Ducks had him taking over a team that was largely built and drafted by Murray.  

 

The WCE was a fanatastic group especially with the twins, Kesler, Burrows, Hansen and Bieksa all in the system at the same time. Then the implosion happened. Had the league suspended Moore the whole incident likely would have diffused. Instead the Avs could do no wrong as Bettman put his fingers on the scale yet again. 

 

The WCE was cut short and none of those players ever played the same again. 

[Phat Fingers]

16 hours ago, IBatch said:

The thing is his bad games are brought up way more than his good games, and he became something of a scapegoat.   I agree he didn't save us like he could have and we all were hoping he would because at that point it was obvious we couldn't get a pea past Thomas (including all the extra PPs we did get, more than Boston) , and we were all let down.    He doesn't deserve the goat mantle which was the point I was trying to make with a different poster who's contribution to the dialogue is finding his worse games and posting them.  What about all his good games? It's a team sport, defense matters too, and most all HHOF with the exception of Parent in PHI and Dryden in MTL and maybe Hasek also lost important games at various points in their careers, some by blowouts, but that doesn't come up because they won cups.   Luongo isn't a clutch performer or we'd have one right? But he's was far from bad.

The goat belongs to Daniel IMO. When he let the Rat punch him repeatedly and did nothing, he should have tuned Marchand. Had Daniel or Henrik dropped the mits or shown some extra gear of intensity I beleive that the team could have gutted out one more win.  

 

The way the team played that year reminded me of when the Oilers lost to the Islanders back in the 80’s. Messier was walking past the Islanders dressing room after the oil lost the final. He saw guys who left it all out on the ice,l, banged bruised and winners. 

 

The 2012 team was already getting older and didn’t get another shot at learning that valuable lesson. 

 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

The goat belongs to Daniel IMO. When he let the Rat punch him repeatedly and did nothing, he should have tuned Marchand. Had Daniel or Henrik dropped the mits or shown some extra gear of intensity I beleive that the team could have gutted out one more win.  

 

The way the team played that year reminded me of when the Oilers lost to the Islanders back in the 80’s. Messier was walking past the Islanders dressing room after the oil lost the final. He saw guys who left it all out on the ice,l, banged bruised and winners. 

 

The 2012 team was already getting older and didn’t get another shot at learning that valuable lesson. 

 

I'm with you on that one, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to draw a penalty (which he really should have got but I understand why the ref didn't bother with it too because I'm sure even he was like WTF is this guy doing, why isn't he fighting back?) but your right if he did fight back it would have energized the entire team top to bottom.  

 

Messier was just coming out the shower when he saw Arbour on the TV saying his team won on character.  He lost in and infront of everyone he snapped his towel at the TV and vowed they would never lose against them again.   And next year they didn't. 

 

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

The goat belongs to Daniel IMO. When he let the Rat punch him repeatedly and did nothing, he should have tuned Marchand. Had Daniel or Henrik dropped the mits or shown some extra gear of intensity I beleive that the team could have gutted out one more win.  

 

The way the team played that year reminded me of when the Oilers lost to the Islanders back in the 80’s. Messier was walking past the Islanders dressing room after the oil lost the final. He saw guys who left it all out on the ice,l, banged bruised and winners. 

 

The 2012 team was already getting older and didn’t get another shot at learning that valuable lesson. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I'm with you on that one, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to draw a penalty (which he really should have got but I understand why the ref didn't bother with it too because I'm sure even he was like WTF is this guy doing, why isn't he fighting back?) but your right if he did fight back it would have energized the entire team top to bottom.  

 

Messier was just coming out the shower when he saw Arbour on the TV saying his team won on character.  He lost in and infront of everyone he snapped his towel at the TV and vowed they would never lose against them again.   And next year they didn't. 

 

This is why I have so much hope for this new core. When they face adversity they need to have the mentality to just get right back up time after time until they have nothing left. Boes showed me some of this when he was nailed in the boards and then got right up and scored a goal. Bo, Guddy and Virt strike me as players who will refuse to let another player punch them in the face for the sake of a PP. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. 

Oh, also, imagine if Nazzy went back at Moore the next game and at least laid a few good punches on him? The team and the crowd would have gone crazy and maybe Bert wouldn't have felt inclined to stick up for his buddy.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

 

This is why I have so much hope for this new core. When they face adversity they need to have the mentality to just get right back up time after time until they have nothing left. Boes showed me some of this when he was nailed in the boards and then got right up and scored a goal. Bo, Guddy and Virt strike me as players who will refuse to let another player punch them in the face for the sake of a PP. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. 

Oh, also, imagine if Nazzy went back at Moore the next game and at least laid a few good punches on him? The team and the crowd would have gone crazy and maybe Bert wouldn't have felt inclined to stick up for his buddy.

You bet.  The Moore incident was unfortunate, but he really shouldn't have taken out one of if not the best player in the league at the time.  In the West we were considered a contender that year and it essentially cost us our two best players and Bertuzzi was never the same after that much like Kevin Stevebs  after his face injury, part of the chippy play never came back.  

 

Keith did this to D.Sedin too, he should have been murdered and would have if our team had an Odjick at the time. 

 

Green is supposed to be getting the team ready to play the right way, which includes team toughness so hopefully your right.

[NHL97OneTimer]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Soooo...we need to play a Canadian team.  Watch out TO, we had your number in 94 when your Gilmour girls thought it was your turn after 93.  5 games.  Ha ha.

You're right....we might have to wait until the NHL expands into Asia!

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, EdgarM said:

 

This is why I have so much hope for this new core. When they face adversity they need to have the mentality to just get right back up time after time until they have nothing left. Boes showed me some of this when he was nailed in the boards and then got right up and scored a goal. Bo, Guddy and Virt strike me as players who will refuse to let another player punch them in the face for the sake of a PP. There has to be a line drawn somewhere. 

Oh, also, imagine if Nazzy went back at Moore the next game and at least laid a few good punches on him? The team and the crowd would have gone crazy and maybe Bert wouldn't have felt inclined to stick up for his buddy.

Pushback is a mentality and it

means we won’t be beaten no matter the score.  

 

It is one one thing to lose, another to be beaten. The Bruins beat the Nucks, but the 94 team lost to the Rangers, but were never beaten. 

 

To me, no matter the score, the fire in the belly has to be there to compete, no matter the difference in skill, depth or whatever the opponent have over you. 

 

I never want to see another Canucks team beaten again. 

[CanadianRugby]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎24 at 9:24 PM, Rim Jobson said:

No, that was only part of it.

 

In 2009 Luo had an epic meltdown in game 6 against Chicago, we lost the game 7-5 and the series.

In 2010 Luo was below average against LA but our scoring came through and we won in 6. Against Chicago again, Luo had 2 good games on the road an gave up 21 goals in the 4 losses.

In 2011 Luo was ventilated for 12 goals in games 4 and 5 by Chicago again. And of course against Boston, yes he had 2 shutouts, but he was pulled in two other games and should've been pulled in a third (the 8 goal game) allowing 18 goals in 4 losses while only completing two of those games. 

 

So no, not a bum, he had some good games, but for me the 2 shutouts everyone always talks about dont cancel out all the epic bed-sh**tings he displayed over 3 straight postseasons.

 

If that's the best complaint you have, you will never be happy with any Canuck ever unless we have the next Crosby.  Just like people trash the Sedins, even though they were #2 and #3 in playoff scoring.  

 

Last time the Kings won the cup, Kopitar & Doughty had a combined 4 points in the finals.  

[EdgarM]

16 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

If that's the best complaint you have, you will never be happy with any Canuck ever unless we have the next Crosby.  Just like people trash the Sedins, even though they were #2 and #3 in playoff scoring.  

 

Last time the Kings won the cup, Kopitar & Doughty had a combined 4 points in the finals.  

I bet he is happy with Linden.

I believe Linden's playoffs points were BETTER then his regular season points.

Its funny those names you dropped ALL had Cups except for...........................Never mind. We have had some great playoff heroes over the years wearing Canucks colors.

[Kevin Biestra]

On 8/26/2018 at 9:10 AM, IBatch said:

I'm with you on that one, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to draw a penalty (which he really should have got but I understand why the ref didn't bother with it too because I'm sure even he was like WTF is this guy doing, why isn't he fighting back?) but your right if he did fight back it would have energized the entire team top to bottom.  

 

Messier was just coming out the shower when he saw Arbour on the TV saying his team won on character.  He lost in and infront of everyone he snapped his towel at the TV and vowed they would never lose against them again.   And next year they didn't. 

 

Crazy that that same man (also the Messier of 94) came to Vancouver and made Kyle Wellwood look like a man possessed.

[CanadianRugby]

2 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I bet he is happy with Linden.

I believe Linden's playoffs points were BETTER then his regular season points.

Its funny those names you dropped ALL had Cups except for...........................Never mind. We have had some great playoff heroes over the years wearing Canucks colors.

What?  By your own argument there Linden was bum because he didn't have a cup.  

[Pete M]

1994 team gelled and was nearly unstoppable...down 3 games to 1 and making it to game 7...when the ref called 5 penalties in a row against the Canucks, who went down 3 goals to 0; then coming back with two goals from Linden and a post from Lafeyette (last minute) to fall a goal short...

 

Canucks had to beat the refs and the Rangers in game 7 to win the cup.

 

My bad...4 penalties in a row with the Rangers taking an offsetting penalty for roughing...and it was 2-0 when Linden scored his first (short handed, to boot). I remember almost losing it after Linden scored the shorthanded goal to have the ref call another penalty on the Canucks and the Rangers getting a PP goal to go up 3 to 1...it felt like the Rangers hand the refs in their back pockets. All die hard Canuck fans will remember this.

 

I was at game 3...sitting at the blue line, 11 rows up...I remember making up a big sign that said New York can't touch this! (AC Hammer was big back then) with a hand drawn picture of the cup....Messier and Tikkanen during warmup skating on the blue line, in circles, looking up in the crowd...it seemed they were looking directly at the sign...unfortunately, if they saw the sign, it may have motivated them because NYR won the game 5 - 1.

The Canuck team were major underdogs, but they gave NYR all they could handle. Below were their regular season records that year.

 

[Rim Jobson]

7 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I bet he is happy with Linden.

I believe Linden's playoffs points were BETTER then his regular season points.

Its funny those names you dropped ALL had Cups except for...........................Never mind. We have had some great playoff heroes over the years wearing Canucks colors.

I was very happy with Linden. He gave everything he had and more until the final buzzer of the last game. I dont think anybody on that 2011 team could say the same, especially the so-called leaders like the twins and Luongo.

[Baggins]

On 8/26/2018 at 7:53 AM, Phat Fingers said:

The goat belongs to Daniel IMO. When he let the Rat punch him repeatedly and did nothing, he should have tuned Marchand. Had Daniel or Henrik dropped the mits or shown some extra gear of intensity I beleive that the team could have gutted out one more win.  

 

The way the team played that year reminded me of when the Oilers lost to the Islanders back in the 80’s. Messier was walking past the Islanders dressing room after the oil lost the final. He saw guys who left it all out on the ice,l, banged bruised and winners. 

 

The 2012 team was already getting older and didn’t get another shot at learning that valuable lesson. 

 

i don't think it would have made an ounce of difference between how beat up the team was and the way Thomas was playing. I think the biggest mistake in the series was Lou saying "I would have made that save" after game 2 OT. The next biggest mistake was likely Hamhuis thinking he could hip check a gorilla.

[EdgarM]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎27 at 8:10 PM, CanadianRugby said:

What?  By your own argument there Linden was bum because he didn't have a cup.  

Oh read my posts again, Linden is far from a Bum and his playoff stats speak for themselves. He was a Warrior come playoff time and used no excuses, including broken ribs, to slow him down. If you watched the 94 playoffs, you would know what I mean.

[EdgarM]

On ‎2018‎-‎08‎-‎28 at 12:56 AM, Rim Jobson said:

I was very happy with Linden. He gave everything he had and more until the final buzzer of the last game. I dont think anybody on that 2011 team could say the same, especially the so-called leaders like the twins and Luongo.

So true, our leaders whimpered and walked away with their tails between their legs in 2011. Embarrassing.

[MikeyD]

Honestly when we went to the finals, that team was the most dominant NHL team I've seen in a real long time. Top offense, top defense, top PK and I think 2nd PP (or vice versa on the pk/pp). We steamrolled teams, came back from huge deficits, were exciting and played a nasty game. If we weren't decimated we would have absolutely rolled over Boston. 

But that's what makes the cup so tough to achieve. You need luck AND skill. 

Also Tim Thomas was an absolute monster in that series.