Place the blame where it belongs: Travis Green

[riffraff]

15 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

But did this help? Why did no one lay Marchand out for this - more coaches decisions I suppose.

Exactly.  Part of my point.  This is a mentality and it isn’t a winning one in this game.  And I will add that it’s this history that provides no indication that January will provide some sort of day of reckoning.

[Dungass]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Do honestly think the players and staff aren't laughing at the pathetic nature of the hysterics of the weekend?  They don't care, other than having a chuckle about people crying who have never played a competitive game of hockey in their lives.

 

I can't speak for the players, but what indication is there, that staff is laughing at the fans.  As mentioned, Green gave a 4 minute statement before taking any questions on a practice day yesterday.  It would seem they have taken notice of the reaction. 

 

You can pull the "you don't know jack cause you're not a hockey player" card as much as you want.  Doesn't change the reality that a large portion of the fan base is very upset If you want to tell me that staff, management and ownership could care less, then I think you might slightly removed from said reality.

[alfstonker]

On 14/10/2018 at 7:28 PM, oldnews said:

read all of what Benning - and Green said.

They say too much and most of it is blowing smoke up our collective asses.

 

Green looked at his iPad and saw what happened. He should have told the bench and let them decide what was appropriate. If he had done that someone like Schaller could have put it and hopefully Matheson to bed.

 

The plain truth is we have a roster of guys who sit quaking with the thought they might have to step up. Gudbranson could have done it but as you say that might have been overkill and the guy was probably his buddy- that said, did Shawn Thornton or most of the tough guys ever let that bother them when the cause was just? I'm not so sure. Roussel couldn't do it as he is just back from injury, Beagle is not a fighter and that's about it.

 

We act like there are a whole gang of players in the team capable of tuning Matheson in when in fact we are as bereft in that area as we always have been - do you think other teams don't realise this?

[PhillipBlunt]

35 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

But did this help? Why did no one lay Marchand out for this - more coaches decisions I suppose.

No one laid out Marchand because the Canucks lacked a player large or tough enough to deal with Chara, Lucic, or McQuaid. Simple as that.

 

As well, Daniel Sedin seemed to have some misconception that referees actually did their jobs, and repeatedly looked over at that that turd Sutherland hoping for what should have been a penalty. Certainly losing Malholtra, Rome, and Hamhuis was a massive blow that weakened the roster, but once Chara made his presence felt, the Canucks wilted.

 

I think the biggest issue with the Matheson attack was that Vancouver clearly has the horses for that kind of race now. Gudbranson towers over him in every possible way. Schaller and Virtanen are also much larger and more physical than him. He could have easily been given a thorough ass kicking by any of those players, as well as Roussel and Beagle. Hell, even Horvat took on Darnell Nurse, a much more intimidating (and honest) player than that turd Matheson.

 

When Petterson was thumped, there was 15 minutes left in the game at that point. Green had time within that 15 to see the incident on his iPad and, at the very least, instruct every player on the team who plays a heavier game to line up Matheson, if the opportunity presented itself. Hit him hard and hit him to hurt. Simple. There didn't even need to be a scrap, just retribution in the form of a solid hit. Gudbranson could have leveled Matheson similarly to how Dube was hit, and frankly, that would have been fine.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

They say too much and most of it is blowing smoke up our collective asses.

 

Green looked at his iPad and saw what happened. He should have told the bench and let them decide what was appropriate. If he had done that someone like Schaller could have put it and hopefully Matheson to bed.

 

The plain truth is we have a roster of guys who sit quaking with the thought they might have to step up. Gudbranson could have done it but as you say that might have been overkill and the guy was probably his buddy- that said, did Shawn Thornton or most of the tough guys ever let that bother them when the cause was just? I'm not so sure. Roussel couldn't do it as he is just back from injury, Beagle is not a fighter and that's about it.

 

We act like there are a whole gang of players in the team capable of tuning Matheson in when in fact we are as bereft in that area as we always have been - do you think other teams don't realise this?

Gudbranson, Schaller, Roussel, Horvat, Virtanen, Stecher, and Pouliot have all fought at the NHL level with positive results. Beagle, not so much, but Aron Asham was a very tough player.

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, alfstonker said:

The plain truth is we have a roster of guys who sit quaking with the thought they might have to step up. Gudbranson could have done it but as you say that might have been overkill ...Roussel couldn't do it as he is just back from injury, Beagle is not a fighter and that's about it.

 

We act like there are a whole gang of players in the team capable of tuning Matheson in when in fact we are as bereft in that area as we always have been - do you think other teams don't realise this?

Schaller is capable. 

Horvat wants to be a captain.....well. 

 

But whatever

The league is different - there are lots of teams that have less toughness in their lineups than Gudbranson, Schaller, Roussel, et al.

 

The idea that they sit there quaking is one I can't take seriously tbh.  I don't think that had anything to do with it.

[oldnews]

12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

No one laid out Marchand because the Canucks lacked a player large or tough enough to deal with Chara, Lucic, or McQuaid. Simple as that.

 

As well, Daniel Sedin seemed to have some misconception that referees actually did their jobs, and repeatedly looked over that that turd Sutherland hoping for what should have been a penalty. Certainly losing Malholtra, Rome, and Hamhuis was a massive blow that weakened the roster, but once Chara made his presence felt, the Canucks wilted.

 

I think the biggest issue with the Matheson attack was that Vancouver clearly has the horses for that kind of race now. Gudbranson towers over him in every possible way. Schaller and Virtanen are also much larger and more physical than him. He could have easily been given a thorough ass kicking by any of those players, as well as Roussel and Beagle. Hell, even Horvat took on Darnell Nurse, a much more intimidating (and honest) player than that turd Matheson.

 

When Petterson was thumped, there was 15 minutes left in the game at that point. Green had time within that 15 to see the incident on his iPad and, at the very least, instruct every player on the team who plays a heavier game to line up Matheson, if the opportunity presented itself. Hit him hard and hit him to hurt. Simple. There didn't even need to be a scrap, just retribution in the form of a solid hit. Gudbranson could have leveled Matheson similarly to how Dube was hit, and frankly, that would have been fine.

Yeah.  A number of things changed that series, not simply the Marchand/Sedin incident.

One fundamental thing - Colin Campbell's moving goalposts.

Two - Thornton turned the series into old-time broadstreet.

Three - Hamhuis loss was near fatal after the absence of Malhotra.

Four - Thomas was jacked on uppers or something, and played like he was possessed.

Five - Rome poked the bear.

Six - Boston was savage - to the point of cheering and taunting a player with a broken spine.

Seven - Sutherland, O'Halloran, Lee, Rooney et al were fn disgraceful.  "unsportsmanlike' to a Sedin in that context is the height of absurdity.

Eight - I'm tired of numbers - but I can think of another half dozen key incidents off the top of my head ie. the team did not simply turtle - guys like Higgins took vicious runs at Chara, Rome knocked a guy out of the series (and practically the league in due course).  The Sedins absolutely owned Chara through the first two games - and the writing was on the wall - Boston needed to make it less of a hockey game and more of an after the whistles gongshow.  The one-liner narratives never really represent. 

[alfstonker]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

No one laid out Marchand because the Canucks lacked a player large or tough enough to deal with Chara, Lucic, or McQuaid. Simple as that.

 

As well, Daniel Sedin seemed to have some misconception that referees actually did their jobs, and repeatedly looked over that that turd Sutherland hoping for what should have been a penalty. Certainly losing Malholtra, Rome, and Hamhuis was a massive blow that weakened the roster, but once Chara made his presence felt, the Canucks wilted.

 

I think the biggest issue with the Matheson attack was that Vancouver clearly has the horses for that kind of race now. Gudbranson towers over him in every possible way. Schaller and Virtanen are also much larger and more physical than him. He could have easily been given a thorough ass kicking by any of those players, as well as Roussel and Beagle. Hell, even Horvat took on Darnell Nurse, a much more intimidating (and honest) player than that turd Matheson.

 

When Petterson was thumped, there was 15 minutes left in the game at that point. Green had time within that 15 to see the incident on his iPad and, at the very least, instruct every player on the team who plays a heavier game to line up Matheson, if the opportunity presented itself. Hit him hard and hit him to hurt. Simple. There didn't even need to be a scrap, just retribution in the form of a solid hit. Gudbranson could have leveled Matheson similarly to how Dube was hit, and frankly, that would have been fine.

Well I can think of a few players who would not have let some outcome down the line stop them doing what needed to be done. Do you think RR or DD would have stood and watched that? I suppose it is hard to take in that one of your favourite players would have stood and accepted Marchand speed bagging his face. I agree the ref should have stopped it but quite honestly so should Sedin. As you may realise I am not in the camp of doing nothing is the hardest thing. Every man should have a line, even in sport.

 

I totally agree with the rest of your post.

Oh for having a fit DD back in the team - we wouldn't even be discussing this. I hate the way DD was under appreciated by this fan base and in my more sober moments I often wonder if it is fair that guys like DD and RR have to fight other grown men's battles - look what it has cost them.

[aGENT]

54 minutes ago, riffraff said:

i don’t buy the bench being unawares with today’s technology. 

They were talking about this on Sportsnet 650 yesterday. Evidently replays are a LOT harder to come by in 'have not'/USA arenas compared to Canada. 

 

I have little doubt that by the time the coaching staff actually saw what happened, Baer/Horvat had already scored giving us the lead and Green attempted to maintain his composure/not incite his bench/win the game.

[riffraff]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They were talking about this on Sportsnet 650 yesterday. Evidently replays are a LOT harder to come by in 'have not'/USA arenas compared to Canada. 

 

I have little doubt that by the time the coaching staff actually saw what happened, Baer/Horvat had already scored giving us the lead and Green attempted to maintain his composure/not incite his bench/win the game.

Maybe so.

 

I mean there wouldn’t be much crowd reaction from the 700 in attendance but still, this is an nhl building and the Canucks iPads could easily be on a sports net pacific feed.

[aGENT]

21 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

They say too much and most of it is blowing smoke up our collective asses.

 

Green looked at his iPad and saw what happened. He should have told the bench and let them decide what was appropriate. If he had done that someone like Schaller could have put it and hopefully Matheson to bed.

 

The plain truth is we have a roster of guys who sit quaking with the thought they might have to step up. Gudbranson could have done it but as you say that might have been overkill and the guy was probably his buddy- that said, did Shawn Thornton or most of the tough guys ever let that bother them when the cause was just? I'm not so sure. Roussel couldn't do it as he is just back from injury, Beagle is not a fighter and that's about it.

 

We act like there are a whole gang of players in the team capable of tuning Matheson in when in fact we are as bereft in that area as we always have been - do you think other teams don't realise this?

Beagle also broke his arm shortly thereafter and left the game.

 

Between that and like you say, Roussel just coming off concussion and things like Matheson only having a few shifts/not touching the puck a lot, us now leading the game, being down to 10 F's, the confusion around what even happened etc, etc

 

I'm sure the team, particularly after having seen the replay post game, would have loved nothing more than to lay some solid hits on Matheson as the minutes ticked down but circumstances heavily effected their ability to do so. Excrement happens.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Yeah.  A number of things changed that series, not simply the Marchand/Sedin incident.

Never said it was just the Marchand incident. However that was a definite turning point.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

One fundamental thing - Colin Campbell's moving goalposts.

How he was allowed to hold his position while his son was playing showed how bush league the NHL was, and still is.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Two - Thornton turned the series into old-time broadstreet.

What a meathead.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Three - Hamhuis loss was near fatal after the absence of Malhotra.

Losing one of your top four defenseman is brutal. I wonder why he thought it was a good idea to try that with Lucic though.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Four - Thomas was jacked on uppers or something, and played like he was possessed.

He was the real difference. Probably one of the most insane goalie performances of the last 20 years. It didn't hurt that he had a huge defense supporting him.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Five - Rome poked the bear.

And was given an inordinate suspension for it.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Six - Boston was savage - to the point of cheering and taunting a player with a broken spine.

The sporting people of that city have always been just a couple of inches above pond scum. Their statements about Joel Ward after Washington beat them say it all.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Seven - Sutherland, O'Halloran, Lee, Rooney et al were fn disgraceful.  "unsportsmanlike' to a Sedin in that context is the height of absurdity.

Old boys club who have carte blanche thanks to their buddies. They're an abject failure as officials, the exact opposite of what they're supposed to be.

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Eight - I'm tired of numbers - but I can think of another half dozen key incidents off the top of my head ie. the team did not simply turtle - guys like Higgins took vicious runs at Chara, Rome knocked a guy out of the series (and practically the league in due course).  The Sedins absolutely owned Chara through the first two games - and the writing was on the wall - Boston needed to make it less of a hockey game and more of an after the whistles gongshow.  The one-liner narratives never really represent. 

Higgins was the only player who seemed to have a sign of life in game 7. In the end, it was Boston's series to lose. They had the support of the league, the officials, and sadly, most Canadian hockey fans outside of BC. With a deck that stacked...... 

[riffraff]

I’d like to say that after some gaining of emotional control from both camps I have enjoyed the talking point with the posters I have been discussing this incident with.

 

its interesting to see both sides.

 

 

[Sweathog]

21 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

 

When Petterson was thumped, there was 15 minutes left in the game at that point. Green had time within that 15 to see the incident on his iPad and, at the very least, instruct every player on the team who plays a heavier game to line up Matheson, if the opportunity presented itself. Hit him hard and hit him to hurt. Simple. There didn't even need to be a scrap, just retribution in the form of a solid hit. Gudbranson could have leveled Matheson similarly to how Dube was hit, and frankly, that would have been fine.

According to Green he was actively looking for the replay on the iPad and wasn't able to find it. Add that to the fact that the bench didn't seem to react at all when the incident occurred, and it seems to support the assertion that the team actually didn't know what happened.

 

The Canucks have been put on notice by the fans as well they should be. But I think that this one time, and just this one time, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. 

[alfstonker]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Gudbranson, Schaller, Roussel, Horvat, Virtanen, Stecher, and Pouliot have all fought at the NHL level with positive results. Beagle, not so much, but Aron Asham was a very tough player.

I know that Phil but it takes a special type of man to fight someone else's battles. Only Gudy falls into that mould imo Roussel can be excused as I would not want him fighting so soon after an injury.

I may be wrong but I think that list, sadly, is stretching reality.

[PhillipBlunt]

13 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

Well I can think of a few players who would not have let some outcome down the line stop them doing what needed to be done. Do you think RR or DD would have stood and watched that? I suppose it is hard to take in that one of your favourite players would have stood and accepted Marchand speed bagging his face. I agree the ref should have stopped it but quite honestly so should Sedin. As you may realise I am not in the camp of doing nothing is the hardest thing. Every man should have a line, even in sport.

Daniel believed in the game, and that's why he looked to the officials. It was a poor decision on his part. He should have snapped and fed that rat's nose fists a plenty, but he didn't.

13 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I totally agree with the rest of your post.

Oh for having a fit DD back in the team - we wouldn't even be discussing this. I hate the way DD was under appreciated by this fan base and in my more sober moments I often wonder if it is fair that guys like DD and RR have to fight other grown men's battles - look what it has cost them.

Dorsett and Rypien are a breed apart. Players who wear their hearts on their sleeve. They are both sorely, sorely missed.

[alfstonker]

5 minutes ago, Sweathog said:

According to Green he was actively looking for the replay on the iPad and wasn't able to find it. Add that to the fact that the bench didn't seem to react at all when the incident occurred, and it seems to support the assertion that the team actually didn't know what happened.

 

The Canucks have been put on notice by the fans as well they should be. But I think that this one time, and just this one time, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. 

So is that what he is saying now? - because that is not in his first interview where I recall he implied he had to look at his iPad to see it. If I'm right I don't like this at all.

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Daniel believed in the game, and that's why he looked to the officials. It was a poor decision on his part. He should have snapped and fed that rat's nose fists a plenty, but he didn't.

People like to declare him a kitty cat for that but I can't even imagine the amount of self restraint required there by Daniel. The blame lays at the officiating, not Daniel for that embarrassing to the league sequence.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Sweathog said:

According to Green he was actively looking for the replay on the iPad and wasn't able to find it. Add that to the fact that the bench didn't seem to react at all when the incident occurred, and it seems to support the assertion that the team actually didn't know what happened.

 

The Canucks have been put on notice by the fans as well they should be. But I think that this one time, and just this one time, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. 

Very true. Good point, Sweathog. I don't think that Green has any reason to blatantly lie about the iPad feed. Hearing his four minute interview puts it into perspective. He managed the questions, sometimes multiple versions of the same one, quite well.

 

I think the team is aware of how the fanbase views the game, and how long fans have watched the team be pushed around, to the point where the play of the team is effected. Credit goes to Baer and Horvat for coming back with a solid goal.

 

I agree with the just this one time assertion as well. One would hate to see a habit forming.

[Sweathog]

2 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

So is that what he is saying now? - because that is not in his first interview where I recall he implied he had to look at his iPad to see it. If I'm right I don't like this at all.

The interview I listened to was one he did in Pittsburgh. It was the one where he stated that he couldn't find it on the iPad, he also stated that no one had seen what happened.

 

I'm not sure what Green said about the replay immediately after the game.