The SNC-Lavalin Scandal - Jody Wilson-Raybould Refuses to leave Office

[RUPERTKBD]

4 minutes ago, aliboy said:

I would imagine if came from one of the reporters on the Hill, who talk to members of the party and have their own sources. They certainly wouldn't need an article.

They don't need one, but one would expect a reporter to write one, if he or she had such information. This is what strikes me as odd.

[JM_]

32 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

They don't need one, but one would expect a reporter to write one, if he or she had such information. This is what strikes me as odd.

not really, right now they all smell blood and don't really care about the basic facts in the story. 

[Ryan Strome]

53 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess they'll blame Trudeau for it.  

 

Butts should be compelling tomorrow. I hope after than JT does a press conference where he can make a statement about it, and take questions for as long as it takes to get his side of this out there. But he might be wise to have waited this long and let the temperature go down a bit, hopefully Philpott is the last defector. 

 

Its a good position to be arguing from imo, trying to save jobs. Even @Ryan Strome said he would have done the same thing. 

I would have been honest and up front at the start of it all. 

[DonLever]

4 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Ontario holds the MOST seats and Scheer is leading in Ontario. Btw Harper governed for 10 years while never winning Quebec. Winning Ontario and the west is a key to victory. Just do the math it's pretty simple.

Harper do not need Quebec to win elections but the Liberals do.   For the first hundred or so years of Confederation,  Quebecers always voted Liberal except for a few exceptions like when Diefenbaker won in 1957.   It is when Quebec don't vote Liberals is that the Liberals fail.  Like under Mulroney, the Bloc took away Liberal Votes.  Under Harper, the NDP took away Liberal votes.

 

In the upcoming election, there are no party that is going to take away Liberal votes in Quebec.   The NDP has been decimated.  The Liberals have no opposition in Quebec and will take most if the seats in Quebec.  If Trudeau takes 70 out of 75 seats that mean he can remain in power, either as a minority or majority, if he can get enough seats elsewhere.  Trudeau is not going to lose all Ontario seats.   Worst case scenario he gets 30 seats in Ontario.  That's a hundred combined Quebec and Ontario.   Then there is the Maritimes where the Liberals are strong.   Add up seats elsewhere and the Liberals are in good shape.  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

I would have been honest and up front at the start of it all. 

oh really, you would have opened up cabinet confidentiality just cuz? come on. I highly doubt you would have done that in response to a globe and mail story. 

 

This is the most dangerous type of 'scandal' for a politician. On the basic facts, there's actually nothing wrong. But its rife with spin potential, and people's perceptions are more important than what actually occurred. 

[RUPERTKBD]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

not really, right now they all smell blood and don't really care about the basic facts in the story. 

That's not the point. I can't find an article anywhere that makes the claim the JWR has the support of the rank and file Liberals, as aliboy said he heard on Global.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

That's not the point. I can't find an article anywhere that makes the claim the JWR has the support of the rank and file Liberals, as aliboy said he heard on Global.

but it is. Someone is just floating a balloon with no basis because the Liberals are in a weak position. Reporters, pundits, dude's on blogs, can say pretty much anything they want right now. 

[RUPERTKBD]

44 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but it is. Someone is just floating a balloon with no basis because the Liberals are in a weak position. Reporters, pundits, dude's on blogs, can say pretty much anything they want right now. 

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. It looked like you were disagreeing that it would be odd for a reporter in possession of actual knowledge of such information to forgo putting it in print.

 

Global News just "shooting from the hip", I can totally buy...

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. It looked like you were disagreeing that it would be odd for a reporter in possession of actual knowledge of such information to forgo putting it in print.

 

Global News just "shooting from the hip", I can totally buy...

oh, the amount of opinion pieces and balloons floating out there right now is epic. 

 

The only way out of this imo for JT is to completely own it. "I was fighting for jobs, and I always will, and i won't apologize for that" or something along those lines. He doesn't need to slam JWR or Philpott either, he can thank them for great service and regret that they couldn't see the bigger picture. 

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

oh, the amount of opinion pieces and balloons floating out there right now is epic. 

 

The only way out of this imo for JT is to completely own it. "I was fighting for jobs, and I always will, and i won't apologize for that" or something along those lines. He doesn't need to slam JWR or Philpott either, he can thank them for great service and regret that they couldn't see the bigger picture. 

Completely agree. In fact I said as much a week ago and I think he'd be in a better position had he done so from the beginning.

[aliboy]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

oh, the amount of opinion pieces and balloons floating out there right now is epic. 

 

The only way out of this imo for JT is to completely own it. "I was fighting for jobs, and I always will, and i won't apologize for that" or something along those lines. He doesn't need to slam JWR or Philpott either, he can thank them for great service and regret that they couldn't see the bigger picture. 

I also think they might double down and save the jobs, then fight the election on that platform. A lot is riding on the testimony of Butts tomorrow and the clerk of the Privy Council. If they gain some traction from that they might just double down, might be the only play they have.

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, aliboy said:

I also think they might double down and save the jobs, then fight the election on that platform. A lot is riding on the testimony of Butts tomorrow and the clerk of the Privy Council. If they gain some traction from that they might just double down, might be the only play they have.

yeah its going to be an interesting morning coffee, watching old Gerry do the dance in front of the committee. I suspect he's there to set the tone going forward as well. 

 

Some interesting comments out of Sheila Copps today, saying if JWR and Philpott have so much integrity they should quit the caucus! interesting to see some of the old guard coming out. Not sure that helps tho 

[Ryan Strome]

4 hours ago, DonLever said:

Harper do not need Quebec to win elections but the Liberals do.   For the first hundred or so years of Confederation,  Quebecers always voted Liberal except for a few exceptions like when Diefenbaker won in 1957.   It is when Quebec don't vote Liberals is that the Liberals fail.  Like under Mulroney, the Bloc took away Liberal Votes.  Under Harper, the NDP took away Liberal votes.

 

In the upcoming election, there are no party that is going to take away Liberal votes in Quebec.   The NDP has been decimated.  The Liberals have no opposition in Quebec and will take most if the seats in Quebec.  If Trudeau takes 70 out of 75 seats that mean he can remain in power, either as a minority or majority, if he can get enough seats elsewhere.  Trudeau is not going to lose all Ontario seats.   Worst case scenario he gets 30 seats in Ontario.  That's a hundred combined Quebec and Ontario.   Then there is the Maritimes where the Liberals are strong.   Add up seats elsewhere and the Liberals are in good shape.  

Read the article about Quebec.

[kingofsurrey]

Canada deserves  / needs a strong leader like Justin Trudeau

 

Edited March 6, 2019 by kingofsurrey

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Canada deserves  / needs a strong leader like Justin Trudeau

 

Such a strong leader.

[JM_]

So a few interesting things from Butts this morning:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-gerald-butts-full-opening-statement/

 

- JWR was offered Indigenous Services and turned it down, before being offered Veterans Affairs

- JWR only spent 12 days on making the SNC decision

- No final decision was actually communicated in writing to the PMO

- a DPA can be issued right up to the time of sentencing, so the option can be pressed right up to that point

- Butts introduced very cordial text discussions between himself and JWR throughout the whole timeline, they even had dinner together. Hard to see that as a person feeling under siege by Butts.

 

The cabinet shuffle is very interesting. JWR never mentioned the offer of IS in her testimony, and you have to wonder why? IS is hardly a 'demotion'. 

 

[aliboy]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

So a few interesting things from Butts this morning:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-gerald-butts-full-opening-statement/

 

- JWR was offered Indigenous Services and turned it down, before being offered Veterans Affairs

- JWR only spent 12 days on making the SNC decision

- No final decision was actually communicated in writing to the PMO

- a DPA can be issued right up to the time of sentencing, so the option can be pressed right up to that point

- Butts introduced very cordial text discussions between himself and JWR throughout the whole timeline, they even had dinner together. Hard to see that as a person feeling under siege by Butts.

 

The cabinet shuffle is very interesting. JWR never mentioned the offer of IS in her testimony, and you have to wonder why? IS is hardly a 'demotion'. 

 

It's pretty clear that the government was conducting itself, communicating as they normally would on such an important file, and they thought everything was as it should be, no clue anything was wrong according to those text messages. They were handling the file as a team, she was not, something completely different was going on in her head. And, if she did indeed make a final decision that early on, something on which the government is alleged to not have known, then as that was way too early to make a final decision, she should have been removed from the AG office just on that basis. Not operating as a team player, on a very important file, and making a final decision way too early on in the process. This is what I took away from that testimony.

[BPA]

I have to think Butts has everything documented to provide council proof of his version of events.

 

It's coming off like JWR wanted to remain as AG forever (dream job) and viewed other positions as demotion. 

 

Sounds like sour grapes.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

And now you will have a bunch of CONservatives going out of their way to spin this, since this "scandal" has all but fizzled.  Your move Sneer, leader of the C.R.A.P.  (Conservative Reform Alliance Party).

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

And now you will have a bunch of CONservatives going out of their way to spin this, since this "scandal" has all but fizzled.  Your move Sneer, leader of the C.R.A.P.  (Conservative Reform Alliance Party).

I remember when the CRAP party first came into being.  I actually thought is was just a joke, kind of like the Rhino's were.  Nope, these geniuses were serious!