canuck73_3 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, sonoman said: I could probably skate as fast as Dana Murzyn I remember as a kid hearing my dad say how slow Dana Murzyn was and we went and saw the Blackhawks and Murzyn skated by, I thought he was crazy. Then Bure skated by... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 hours ago, VanGnome said: Not at the expense of being arguably our worst defenceman, especially taking salary into context. Schenn would provide just as much "toughness" as Guddy at a fraction of the price, and be no worse defensively. Your joking right? Schenn won’t do that, he’s all but done in this league, all the Schenns in the league are punching bags when the gloves drop, unless it’s with someone who can’t fight in which case it’s a draw. Guddy provides way more toughness, maybe he doesn’t fight much but a big part of that is nobody really wants to. If Schenn gets a game and fights you will understand. Not to mention he skates like he has concrete in his shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Yes, Dana was very slow, for a player that lasted for years in the best hockey league in the world. I would not be surprised if Dana is still faster than 90% of the posters here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, IBatch said: Your joking right? Schenn won’t do that, he’s all but done in this league, all the Schenns in the league are punching bags when the gloves drop, unless it’s with someone who can’t fight in which case it’s a draw. Guddy provides way more toughness, maybe he doesn’t fight much but a big part of that is nobody really wants to. If Schenn gets a game and fights you will understand. Not to mention he skates like he has concrete in his shoes. Just want to clarify my statement, as it is evidently not clear what I meant (my fault for not providing the full picture) On r/Canucks during the last GDT, I was chirping whenever a defenceman doing something dumb by sarcastically saying "Luke Schenn wouldn't have done that..." The joke is that Schenn is unlikely to actually play in ANY game. Thus the comparison of Schenn to Gudbranson is that nothing is better that what Guddy "provides in terms of toughness". Schenn absolutely cannot be any worse than Gudbranson defensively... if he doesn't play. It was obscure, of course and I didn't actually expect anyone to put 2 and 2 together. Gudbranson's selective "display of toughness" is inconsistent and if that's all he provides, it's not worth it at the expense of his defensive liability or salary on the roster. Removing Gudbranson from the team is addition by subtraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: I remember as a kid hearing my dad say how slow Dana Murzyn was and we went and saw the Blackhawks and Murzyn skated by, I thought he was crazy. Then Bure skated by... Dana Murzyn was slow. Backwards, forwards, it didn’t matter. However he played like his life depended on it every game, and despite his issues managed some of the better plus minuses on our team quite regularly. He wouldn’t look good in today’s game, a pilon that wouldn’t be allowed to clutch/grab and shove guys around. Remember he would fight guys and never throw a punch...especially against Calgary. Just kind of wrestle with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 44 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: At this point I'd rather see someone from CDC slot in at Pouliot's spot. Funny, I'd think people would feel much better about Pouliot after the last few games. I have no issue, aside from brain farts now and then, with how he plays, and he seems to play better with more ice time, when players above him are injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 With the small sample size from last season, I liked what I saw from him. Quick, and great body position, hopefully they see enough from him to move or waive someone on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, VanGnome said: Just want to clarify my statement, as it is evidently not clear what I meant (my fault for not providing the full picture) On r/Canucks during the last GDT, I was chirping whenever a defenceman doing something dumb by sarcastically saying "Luke Schenn wouldn't have done that..." The joke is that Schenn is unlikely to actually play in ANY game. Thus the comparison of Schenn to Gudbranson is that nothing is better that what Guddy "provides in terms of toughness". Schenn absolutely cannot be any worse than Gudbranson defensively... if he doesn't play. It was obscure, of course and I didn't actually expect anyone to put 2 and 2 together. Gudbranson's selective "display of toughness" is inconsistent and if that's all he provides, it's not worth it at the expense of his defensive liability or salary on the roster. Removing Gudbranson from the team is addition by subtraction. Maybe...but NO. It’s not addition by subtraction when you consider the intangibles...he is willing to clock guys when the moment strikes and right now we have NOBODY who comes close to him in the lineup. EPs been injured twice already this year because of one blatant and one careless (and deliberate I don’t care how many times you watch vidoe on the play I was there and I saw him go after him with intent) play, and Guddy is a detterrent. As games become more and more important he will become more of a target. And IF we somehow make the playoffs even more so. It’s easy for a team to target a gamebreaker like EP if they know there is nobody standing in the way, management knows this as does the team. Rousell and Schenn aren’t even close to a deterrent. Guddy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, johngould21 said: With the small sample size from last season, I liked what I saw from him. Quick, and great body position, hopefully they see enough from him to move or waive someone on the roster. very unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, gurn said: Yes, Dana was very slow, for a player that lasted for years in the best hockey league in the world. I would not be surprised if Dana is still faster than 90% of the posters here. Probably more like 99.9%. Back in my playing days, one of the guys on our team had played for McGill University, and said that they had played a collection of retired Habs. One of them being Claude Provost. He was known as a checker back in the day, and was like a blanket when he checked the likes of Bobby Hull. Well, he was well into his forties, and he left my buddy standing still, in a game like situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, IBatch said: Maybe...but NO. It’s not addition by subtraction when you consider the intangibles...he is willing to clock guys when the moment strikes and right now we have NOBODY who comes close to him in the lineup. EPs been injured twice already this year because of one blatant and one careless (and deliberate I don’t care how many times you watch vidoe on the play I was there and I saw him go after him with intent) play, and Guddy is a detterrent. As games become more and more important he will become more of a target. And IF we somehow make the playoffs even more so. It’s easy for a team to target a gamebreaker like EP if they know there is nobody standing in the way, management knows this as does the team. Rousell and Schenn aren’t even close to a deterrent. Guddy is. A lot of the same fans who dis Gudbranson are excited with the idea of making playoffs. If that were to happen (it won't) the cry would then be about team toughness and who were going to defend Petey from the physical play. CUP play is not regular season. I do expect the Canucks to make the playoffs NEXT year and guys like Guddy will be essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, IBatch said: Maybe...but NO. It’s not addition by subtraction when you consider the intangibles...he is willing to clock guys when the moment strikes and right now we have NOBODY who comes close to him in the lineup. EPs been injured twice already this year because of one blatant and one careless (and deliberate I don’t care how many times you watch vidoe on the play I was there and I saw him go after him with intent) play, and Guddy is a detterrent. As games become more and more important he will become more of a target. And IF we somehow make the playoffs even more so. It’s easy for a team to target a gamebreaker like EP if they know there is nobody standing in the way, management knows this as does the team. Rousell and Schenn aren’t even close to a deterrent. Guddy is. That's precisely what I am saying. Gudbranson is NOT a deterrent because his grasp on HOW to be a deterrent is flawed. I would agree that at one point Gudbranson WAS a deterrent, but has softened significantly. If Gudbranson provides little to no offensive benefit, and is considerably flawed defensively to the point where night in, night out recently Biega of all people show him up at both ends of the rink (as bad as Biega is or rather as consistently as he shows to not be a daily NHL caliber defenceman), that really says A LOT. We're better off running with Sautner the rest of the season, Biega and Schenn as warm bodies until Tanev and Edler return, and dump Gudbranson for literally anything approaching decent value at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, IBatch said: Maybe...but NO. It’s not addition by subtraction when you consider the intangibles...he is willing to clock guys when the moment strikes and right now we have NOBODY who comes close to him in the lineup. EPs been injured twice already this year because of one blatant and one careless (and deliberate I don’t care how many times you watch vidoe on the play I was there and I saw him go after him with intent) play, and Guddy is a detterrent. As games become more and more important he will become more of a target. And IF we somehow make the playoffs even more so. It’s easy for a team to target a gamebreaker like EP if they know there is nobody standing in the way, management knows this as does the team. Rousell and Schenn aren’t even close to a deterrent. Guddy is. I really don't understand the Guddy and Pouliot hate, but I suppose it comes down to this weird thing vancouver "fans" have that if you're not a star, you're absolute trash. There doesn't seem to be a deeper understanding that your #5-7 dmen aren't as good and they are going to make blunders more frequently than your top 4 guys. Maybe it's a symptom of all the fans brought in by EA Sports where you can load your team up with stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, VanGnome said: That's precisely what I am saying. Gudbranson is NOT a deterrent because his grasp on HOW to be a deterrent is flawed. I would agree that at one point Gudbranson WAS a deterrent, but has softened significantly. If Gudbranson provides little to no offensive benefit, and is considerably flawed defensively to the point where night in, night out recently Biega of all people show him up at both ends of the rink (as bad as Biega is or rather as consistent he shows that he is simply not a daily NHL caliber defenceman), that really says A LOT. We're better off running with Sautner the rest of the season, Biega and Schenn as warm bodies until Tanev and Edler return, and dump Gudbranson for literally anything approaching decent value at the deadline. Obtuse obviously isn't just a mathematical term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, johngould21 said: Probably more like 99.9%. Back in my playing days, one of the guys on our team had played for McGill University, and said that they had played a collection of retired Habs. One of them being Claude Provost. He was known as a checker back in the day, and was like a blanket when he checked the likes of Bobby Hull. Well, he was well into his forties, and he left my buddy standing still, in a game like situation. I had a buddy playing commercial hockey in Kimberley years ago. There was a All-Star team of Oldies who came to town and he went into nets for the home team. He was a pretty decent tender in his day. One of the Oldtimers was Norm Ullman who was not a spring chicken. My friend said he was OK until Norm took a spin around the rink. His speed was totally intimidating even before he took a shot on net. Cannot remeber what he said the score was but not good for him. He said those oldtimers could pick spots without thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, stawns said: I really don't understand the Guddy and Pouliot hate, but I suppose it comes down to this weird thing vancouver "fans" have that if you're not a star, you're absolute trash. There doesn't seem to be a deeper understanding that your #5-7 dmen aren't as good and they are going to make blunders more frequently than your top 4 guys. Maybe it's a symptom of all the fans brought in by EA Sports where you can load your team up with stars. It's more of an indictment of Benning's ability or lack thereof to acquire consistent defensemen that can provide value. You don't have to be a star as a 5/6/7 D, you just have to not be BAD defensively and make so many lapses in judgement that are exploited by other teams. The problem with Gudbranson, Pouliot and to a lesser extend Biega, is they all consistently try to do more than they are otherwise capable of. Right now its a consequence of our lack of depth, that's a Benning problem, but for me the less talented a player is, the simpler they should keep their game and that's an inherent failure of the coaching staff, and in this specific case of Nolan Baumgartner. I'd literally have no problem with all three if they weren't consistently put into positions by coaching to have to do more than they are capable due to the game plan. However since this is the environment in which they have been thrust and we as fans have to endure the play of, then by all means we have every right to point out their weaknesses and be dissatisfied with their performance. I also understand Bennings position because if we can see what we see, then so can every other coaching staff, scout and GM and any move Benning would make to improve the defense would come at the expense of overpaying in terms of assets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanGnome Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, stawns said: Obtuse obviously isn't just a mathematical term Please, grand vizier, enlighten this poor obtuse fella so that he may see the errors of his ways (I'm being rhetorical, please don't). There's nothing obtuse in my observation, but evidently you are quite content with mediocrity of the highest order, I simply am not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, VanGnome said: It's more of an indictment of Benning's ability or lack thereof to acquire consistent defensemen that can provide value. You don't have to be a star as a 5/6/7 D, you just have to not be BAD defensively and make so many lapses in judgement that are exploited by other teams. The problem with Gudbranson, Pouliot and to a lesser extend Biega, is they all consistently try to do more than they are otherwise capable of. Right now its a consequence of our lack of depth, that's a Benning problem, but for me the less talented a player is, the simpler they should keep their game and that's an inherent failure of the coaching staff, and in this specific case of Nolan Baumgartner. I'd literally have no problem with all three if they weren't consistently put into positions by coaching to have to do more than they are capable due to the game plan. However since this is the environment in which they have been thrust and we as fans have to endure the play of, then by all means we have every right to point out their weaknesses and be dissatisfied with their performance. I also understand Bennings position because if we can see what we see, then so can every other coaching staff, scout and GM and any move Benning would make to improve the defense would come at the expense of overpaying in terms of assets. I really don't have an issue with their dfence, I think they do an admirable job and it's clearly the last part of the team to get an injection of youth. They have their limitations, but they do a good job of playing within those boundaries.......none of them try to play a style that doesn't suit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, VanGnome said: Please, grand vizier, enlighten this poor obtuse fella so that he may see the errors of his ways (I'm being rhetorical, please don't). There's nothing obtuse in my observation, but evidently you are quite content with mediocrity of the highest order, I simply am not. what is that you think they should be doing? They have drafted dmen, but it takes much longer for them to ripen, so they are doing the best with what they have. Should they trade picks to bring in placeholder D? Would that placate the ignorant masses? Who they have is what they have to work with and they haven't got the means, outside of being patient and waiting for the youth to develop, to change it. If you think a young AHL dman is better than Guddy, Pouliot or Biega then you are, indeed, obtuse. If any of those three were in the AHL, they would dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said: I play a pretty mean LD in NHL 19 I can do it! The job is yours... according to CDC thats all it takes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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