VanGnome Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 47 minutes ago, stawns said: I really don't have an issue with their dfence, I think they do an admirable job and it's clearly the last part of the team to get an injection of youth. They have their limitations, but they do a good job of playing within those boundaries.......none of them try to play a style that doesn't suit them. Except they aren't.... and they are. 42 minutes ago, stawns said: what is that you think they should be doing? They have drafted dmen, but it takes much longer for them to ripen, so they are doing the best with what they have. Should they trade picks to bring in placeholder D? Would that placate the ignorant masses? Who they have is what they have to work with and they haven't got the means, outside of being patient and waiting for the youth to develop, to change it. If you think a young AHL dman is better than Guddy, Pouliot or Biega then you are, indeed, obtuse. If any of those three were in the AHL, they would dominate. I would expect coaching to recognize the deficiencies and craft a strategy to get the best out of them. If coaching (Baumgartner) are doing so, then they're either bad at their job, or the players really are even worse than what is being shown. Sautner is but 1 year younger than Pouliot, so yes I do believe he has at least a solid shot at not being as big of a &^@# up, given the ample playing time Pouliot has received to correct his inconsistency and mistakes but has not. Sautner is 3 years younger than Gudbranson, a bit more of a gap there, but yet again that just illustrates how much more opportunity Gudbranson has had to correct his flaws yet seems incapable of doing so. That's also why I said to a lesser extent Biega, because he has proven himself serviceable but is still prone to make up for his lack of size/skill with effort which us commendable yet ultimately detrimental to the forward momentum of the defence as a whole. The only argument I'm comfortable in stating is if given the same opportunity, Sautner is certainly as good, if not better than Pouliot. They are also different types of defencemen, Pouliot styles his game as that of an offensive defenceman, he's just not skilled enough to pull it off consistently. Sautner plays a more reserved game, a safer game and thus is prone to fewer mistakes. Gudbranson is supposed to play a safer game but he's failing even at that because he doesn't have the foot speed to make up for his lack of ability to follow and anticipate the play, so Sautner again has an opportunity to displace Gudbranson if he manages to play within his game and not be a liability. If he can't then Sautner is subject to the same criticisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, VanGnome said: Except they aren't.... and they are. I would expect coaching to recognize the deficiencies and craft a strategy to get the best out of them. If coaching (Baumgartner) are doing so, then they're either bad at their job, or the players really are even worse than what is being shown. Sautner is but 1 year younger than Pouliot, so yes I do believe he has at least a solid shot at not being as big of a &^@# up, given the ample playing time Pouliot has received to correct his inconsistency and mistakes but has not. Sautner is 3 years younger than Gudbranson, a bit more of a gap there, but yet again that just illustrates how much more opportunity Gudbranson has had to correct his flaws yet seems incapable of doing so. That's also why I said to a lesser extent Biega, because he has proven himself serviceable but is still prone to make up for his lack of size/skill with effort which us commendable yet ultimately detrimental to the forward momentum of the defence as a whole. The only argument I'm comfortable in stating that given the same opportunity is certainly as good, if not better than Pouliot. They are also different types of defencemen, Pouliot styles his game as that of an offensive defenceman, he's just not skilled enough to pull it off consistently. Sautner plays a more reserved game, a safer game and thus is prone to fewer mistakes. Gudbranson is supposed to play a safer game but he's failing even at that because he doesn't have the foot speed to make up for his lack of ability to follow and anticipate the play, so Sautner again has an opportunity to displace Gudbranson if he manages to play within his game and not be a liability. If he can't then Sautner is subject to the same criticisms. so sautner is only one year younger than Pouliot, yet hasn't been able to make the jump to the NHL, but somehow he's going to bump DP? Additionally, Pouliot was an AHL all-star, AS is not, yet he's somehow going to bump DP? I think Sautner is going to be a serviceable NHL player and I enjoyed his time in Van last year, but Pouliot and Biega are established NHL'ers for a reason.......they were too good for the AHL. Your take on Guddy is just plain stupid and is clearly just a personal dislike of the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, stawns said: so sautner is only one year younger than Pouliot, yet hasn't been able to make the jump to the NHL, but somehow he's going to bump DP? Additionally, Pouliot was an AHL all-star, AS is not, yet he's somehow going to bump DP? I think Sautner is going to be a serviceable NHL player and I enjoyed his time in Van last year, but Pouliot and Biega are established NHL'ers for a reason.......they were too good for the AHL. Your take on Guddy is just plain stupid and is clearly just a personal dislike of the player. I thought the Guddy hate was all based on analytics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 17 hours ago, VanGnome said: That's precisely what I am saying. Gudbranson is NOT a deterrent because his grasp on HOW to be a deterrent is flawed. I would agree that at one point Gudbranson WAS a deterrent, but has softened significantly. If Gudbranson provides little to no offensive benefit, and is considerably flawed defensively to the point where night in, night out recently Biega of all people show him up at both ends of the rink (as bad as Biega is or rather as consistently as he shows to not be a daily NHL caliber defenceman), that really says A LOT. We're better off running with Sautner the rest of the season, Biega and Schenn as warm bodies until Tanev and Edler return, and dump Gudbranson for literally anything approaching decent value at the deadline. That’s exactly the opposite of what I posted. He’s the best thing we have right now standing in the way from a career threatening injury to EP. Again Rousell and Schenn scare nobody...and FYI Guddbranson IS a better defenseman than all three of the guys you suggest can handle his minutes. If it weren’t the case they’d all be the in the NHL by now. Saunter maybe could manage it, he’s an unknown commodity, the other two are not, but Sautner is not going to jump in the same way either or be any sort of deterrent. I will say I’m impressed with McEwen, he’s a big boy and sure can throw them well. Don’t know how he will do overall in the NHL, but he’s young and keeps getting better. Great find. It’s possible eventually he can play a fourth line (which now means 10-12 minutes) and be our tough guy...he seems eager and willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, VanGnome said: It's more of an indictment of Benning's ability or lack thereof to acquire consistent defensemen that can provide value. As I said in the Gudbranson thread last week IIRC, if there's any fault at Benning's feet, it's that he's thus far failed to acquire a suitable, complimentary player to partner with EG after targeting and acquiring him in trade. Thus far he's basically been set up to fail with ill-suited partners and it's been a poor use of an asset. Good coaching/management is about setting up players to succeed. They've not remotely done that in his time here short of the brief stint with Edler (which understandably isn't presently a long term solution as it limits Edler's ability to contribute to his fullest...and he's injured). Perhaps they had planned to have OJ there by now but otherwise, Guddy needs to play with an Edler or if we're looking at prospects, Brisebois, Juolevi or indeed, perhaps Sautner (we wait and see) if he's going to have any success as a Canuck IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, aGENT said: As I said in the Gudbranson thread last week IIRC, if there's any fault at Benning's feet, it's that he's thus far failed to acquire a suitable, complimentary player to partner with EG after targeting and acquiring him in trade. Thus far he's basically been set up to fail with ill-suited partners and it's been a poor use of an asset. Good coaching/management is about setting up players to succeed. They've not remotely done that in his time here short of the brief stint with Edler (which understandably isn't presently a long term solution as it limits Edler's ability to contribute to his fullest...and he's injured). Perhaps they had planned to have OJ there by now but otherwise, Guddy needs to play with an Edler or if we're looking at prospects, Brisebois, Juolevi or indeed, perhaps Sautner (we wait and see) if he's going to have any success as a Canuck IMO. Didn't Guddy play with Campbell in Florida? I seem to recall them playing pretty well together in the playoffs. Hughes is the Closest player we have to that in terms of style of play. Perhaps they pair those two up in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, DeNiro said: Didn't Guddy play with Campbell in Florida? I seem to recall them playing pretty well together in the playoffs. Hughes is the Closest player we have to that in terms of style of play. Perhaps they pair those two up in March. He played better with stay at home guys like Mitchell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Didn't Guddy play with Campbell in Florida? I seem to recall them playing pretty well together in the playoffs. Hughes is the Closest player we have to that in terms of style of play. Perhaps they pair those two up in March. Yes he did but Campbell played a more steady, refined, modern 2 way game by the time he played with Guddy. Not sure we can count on Hughes to do that out of the gate. He also partnered well with Mitchell, again a steady, refined (albeit almost completely defensive) player. IMO, Edler, Briesebois, Juolevi...perhaps Sautner (or a UFA) are what he needs if they want to actually set him up to succeed (caveat that none of the kids are likely to be as steady as Mitchell/Campbell/Edler). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyHatnDart Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: I play a pretty mean LD in NHL 19 I can do it! I knew there was another Teal around here somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, gurn said: Yes, Dana was very slow, for a player that lasted for years in the best hockey league in the world. I would not be surprised if Dana is still faster than 90% of the posters here. He never took a night off and in the off season learnt to box and trained like one as I recall. Respect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 hours ago, mll said: 6 Ds in the lineup + 1 spare. Hutton Stecher Gudbranson Pouliot Biega Schenn and Sautner Man when you put the names all together its just sad (Much love for Hutton and Stecher though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said: I thought the Guddy hate was all based on analytics? and horrible journalism,. The same haters miss Cory Schneider and Frank Corrado.. ... I actually think EG has been playing injured,. Looks like he’s been protective of something.. back spasms? Is He practicing? Happy to see Sautner Re appear., he is solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDangles Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, stawns said: I really don't understand the Guddy and Pouliot hate, but I suppose it comes down to this weird thing vancouver "fans" have that if you're not a star, you're absolute trash. There doesn't seem to be a deeper understanding that your #5-7 dmen aren't as good and they are going to make blunders more frequently than your top 4 guys. Maybe it's a symptom of all the fans brought in by EA Sports where you can load your team up with stars. People keep over complicating why they don't like Guddy.. talking about analytics, wrong defensive partner blah blah the fact of the matter is, he does nothing noticeable... at all. He doesn't score He doesn't keep the puck out of the net He doesn't hit people more than any other defensmen (despite being big and strong) He doesn't scrap very often (despite being big and strong) He doesn't instill fear into other teams as some people suggest. (despite being big and strong) He doesn't play with an edge (despite being big and strong) None of that means he's a bad defensman... but it does make it hard for people to find something to love. If he just became really good at one of those things above people would love him... but he just doesn't! He is handsome though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 hours ago, stawns said: I really don't understand the Guddy and Pouliot hate, but I suppose it comes down to this weird thing vancouver "fans" have that if you're not a star, you're absolute trash. There doesn't seem to be a deeper understanding that your #5-7 dmen aren't as good and they are going to make blunders more frequently than your top 4 guys. Maybe it's a symptom of all the fans brought in by EA Sports where you can load your team up with stars. I think you’ve missed the point. You’ve acknowledged that he’s a #5-7 d-man but haven’t mentioned his cap hit. Guddy is being paid too much for what he brings to the table. If he were getting paid a salary akin to that of a fringe NHL bottom-pairing d-man, it’d be an entirely different story. In a salary cap world, those who do not perform their duties relative to their price tag get the most flack. This is no different than Eriksson, Lucic, etc. People just have a soft spot for Gud in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, guntrix said: I think you’ve missed the point. You’ve acknowledged that he’s a #5-7 d-man but haven’t mentioned his cap hit. Guddy is being paid too much for what he brings to the table. If he were getting paid a salary akin to that of a fringe NHL bottom-pairing d-man, it’d be an entirely different story. In a salary cap world, those who do not perform their duties relative to their price tag get the most flack. This is no different than Eriksson, Lucic, etc. People just have a soft spot for Gud in particular. He's not really making top 4 money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, JayDangles said: People keep over complicating why they don't like Guddy.. talking about analytics, wrong defensive partner blah blah the fact of the matter is, he does nothing noticeable... at all. He doesn't score He doesn't keep the puck out of the net He doesn't hit people more than any other defensmen (despite being big and strong) He doesn't scrap very often (despite being big and strong) He doesn't instill fear into other teams as some people suggest. (despite being big and strong) He doesn't play with an edge (despite being big and strong) None of that means he's a bad defensman... but it does make it hard for people to find something to love. If he just became really good at one of those things above people would love him... but he just doesn't! He is handsome though..... I like him and not because he is dreamy. I like him because he's a good 5-6 dman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, aGENT said: He's not really making top 4 money... You sure about that? His 2018-19 cap hit comfortably puts him in the top-4 highest paid defensemen in all NHL teams except for the Hurricanes, Jets, Rangers, Red Wings and Wild. His cap hit is tied with six other players at 87th (with Scandela, Josi, Martinez, Muzzin and Russell). That also puts him in the top-4 echelon. How is he not making top-4 money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Speaks volumes about our team when Gudbranson is lauded as the team tough guy. Yeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mathew Barzal said: Speaks volumes about our team when Gudbranson is lauded as the team tough guy. Yeesh. in case you didn't get the memo, all the goons are gone. Guddy is probably a top 5 tough guy in the league now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 I think/hope this is JB hinting very strongly to Green that he better end his love affair with Pouliot lets hope JB is prepping to dump some defensive deadweight it will be torture to know those young guys are sitting in the press box while Pouliot is handing out giveaways all night on the ice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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