GhostsOf1994 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Tbl needed cap apace for point. Tbl set the price. But To say tbl demanded 1st a 3rd and mazanec is silly Jb negotiated that deal as best he could. Wait until the TDL and see what Krieder or Toffoli or Simmonds fetch. A 1st and a 3rd for a point per game player signed for 3 more seasons is a steal. END OF DISCUSSION 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 52 minutes ago, peaches5 said: Common sense is not your forte. Tampa agreed to the conditions if the Vancouver misses the playoffs the pick defers to the following year. What I said is Vancouver should have the option to defer. If Vancouver makes the playoffs and chooses to defer it doesn't make much sense. If they miss the playoffs by a significant amount and choose to defer it's not much difference for Tampa under the current conditions but for Vancouver it's a significant difference. If they miss the playoffs and let's say come 15 they can just send the pick to Tampa or if they finish below top 10 they could think him we aren't as good as we thought let's just send Tampa the pick so next year we aren't giving up a lottery pick. There's no logical reason Tampa wouldn't agree to that unless they felt like Vancouver in the next couple of years was going to be a contender. You don't need to be part of some NHL management to understand something so rudimentary. JB put a lot of faith in this team and I feel like some simple tweaks to the conditions would have made this trade better. The point is your posts come across like you know more than professional hockey management. And you don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 30 minutes ago, peaches5 said: He 100% didn't turn down Point. You need to back that up with a verified insider. If Tampa was trying to trade Point to us they were targeting Pettersson. That is the only logical reason why they would be offering him. There is absolutely no way Point was offered for anything remotely close to what JT was traded for. I have never heard about the Point thing before. But once again, you have no idea because they didn't call you before any trade. Oh....and a little stat for you peach: JT Miller - 46 points currently 26th overall; one of the best faceoff men in the game; 6'1" 218lbs Point - 42 points currently 42nd overall; 5'10" 166lbs I know which one I would want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 1 hour ago, peaches5 said: LIke I said it was a fair deal 22 hours ago, peaches5 said: Vancouver overpaid. Vancouver didn't want to take the chance on missing out of JT Miller and took the offer that Tampa gave them. He has far exceeded anything anyone would have predicted. He was absolutely was overpayment, Even at the time of the trade the "experts", not CDc; who are frequently made to look like fools, said the Canucks overpaid and could have gotten him cheaper On 1/23/2020 at 9:57 AM, peaches5 said: I thought it was a hockey trade and we could have made it more lopsided. I stand behind what I said. I am not changing my views on it like the majority of people here. I’m having trouble here... was it a fair hockey trade or did we get raked over the coals???? Seems like you’re having trouble making up you mind 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 37 minutes ago, peaches5 said: He 100% didn't turn down Point. You need to back that up with a verified insider. If Tampa was trying to trade Point to us they were targeting Pettersson. That is the only logical reason why they would be offering him. There is absolutely no way Point was offered for anything remotely close to what JT was traded for. Again if you’re mentioning our best young players as comparable to other teams’ players (like you’re AGAIN doing with Petey) clearly you’re only interested in upsetting our fans on our CANUCK’S board. Go to your board. Point and TJ we’re both offered, and JB took Miller because Miller is a more complete (obviously) player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 16 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: I’m having trouble here... was it a fair hockey trade or did we get raked over the coals???? Seems like you’re having trouble making up you mind I said from the beginning it was a fair deal but Vancouver should have been able to do better. It should have been a more lopsided trade based on Tampa needing to offload salary. At the time of the trade it as the general consensus of hockey analysts that Vancouver overpaid and could have gotten Miller Cheaper but there was a chance someone else might swoop in and steal JT and Vancouver didn't want to risk it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 24 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: I have never heard about the Point thing before. But once again, you have no idea because they didn't call you before any trade. Oh....and a little stat for you peach: JT Miller - 46 points currently 26th overall; one of the best faceoff men in the game; 6'1" 218lbs Point - 42 points currently 42nd overall; 5'10" 166lbs I know which one I would want. Point is coming off hip surgery and missed all of the summer, training camp and the start of the season. He also put up 92 points (41 goals) last year whereas Miller put up 47 points(13 goals). Point is far better defensively and a far better skater than Miller as well. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 53 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said: Tbl needed cap apace for point. Tbl set the price. But To say tbl demanded 1st a 3rd and mazanec is silly Jb negotiated that deal as best he could. Wait until the TDL and see what Krieder or Toffoli or Simmonds fetch. A 1st and a 3rd for a point per game player signed for 3 more seasons is a steal. END OF DISCUSSION He has never been a point per game player in his entire career. At the time of the trade he was a 3rd line player, no show in the playoffs, and struggled to fit in with elite players. To turn around and look at the season he had/having and then go oh wow that trade is amazing is flawed. I've only seen once person try to defend the Gudbranson trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, peaches5 said: I said from the beginning it was a fair deal but Vancouver should have been able to do better. It should have been a more lopsided trade based on Tampa needing to offload salary. At the time of the trade it as the general consensus of hockey analysts that Vancouver overpaid and could have gotten Miller Cheaper but there was a chance someone else might swoop in and steal JT and Vancouver didn't want to risk it. So what’s there to complain about? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said: So what’s there to complain about? This is a forum. Everyone here thinks you have to have the exact same opinion as them or they lose their $&!#. All I pointed out was things could have been better and people here can't handle it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostsOf1994 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, peaches5 said: He has never been a point per game player in his entire career. At the time of the trade he was a 3rd line player, no show in the playoffs, and struggled to fit in with elite players. To turn around and look at the season he had/having and then go oh wow that trade is amazing is flawed. I've only seen once person try to defend the Gudbranson trade. Well he's almost a ppg this year. He got bumped down because of point emerging. 3rd liner? He's a first liner here. TAMPA BAY LIGHTNING MANAGEMENT EVEN SAID THEY WERE MAD THAT THEY HAD TO TRADE HIM! Yeah a 3rd liner... Are you a canucks fan or what? Drag gudbranson trade out of what orifice because i mentioned it, right? Dig through my posts, find the one where i broke down the odds of a 1st rounder even making the nhl, how long to develop etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, peaches5 said: This is a forum. Everyone here thinks you have to have the exact same opinion as them or they lose their $&!#. All I pointed out was things could have been better and people here can't handle it. Bro...Brochacho....Bromio....Brotato chip.... the only person losing their - and I quote - ‘$&!#’ here seems to be you. No one cares if you have a different opinion. People care that you try so hard to make everyone accept it when it doesn’t to seem to most - it would appear - like a good one 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 (edited) I don't know why anyone is bothering to discuss Brayden Point - could it be any more obvious that he was neither a realistic target nor was he likely to be a player that Tampa would have entertained dealing? Here's what is/was obvious. Days before this deal, Tampa Bay placed Ryan Callahan on long-term injury reserve, with all the indicators pointing towards retirement due to degenerative disc back problems. Quote "From what the doctors have said and the way I feel, it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to come back," Callahan told tampabaylightning.com. Tampa gained some of the flexibility they were seeking, and a bit more leverage in their subsequent negotiations, where the impetus became moving a player like Johson, Killorn, Gourde or MIller - ie a few players they could gain assets in the process of moving, and a few they could move at a lower asset gain, while also gaining additional cap flexibility in the process. That was obviously annoying - as yet another asset wealthy team managed to 'schmeagle' out of another anchor/cap-dump contract (while the rethinging Canucks get saddled with the Luongo-recrap). Of those players, I personally had little interest in Gourde or Johnson - who, at their age, cap hit, and the type of game they play did not represent anywhere near as worthwhile targets as Miller (something borne out by their subsequent results/outcomes this season). Killorn on the other hand may have made a good placeholder at age 29, but with 4 years of term, and nowhere near as heavy a game, and without the versatility that Miller brings, might have made a wothwhile lower cost concession, but not necessarily a prime 'target'. I can't say how much relative interest there would have been in those alternative assets - my own take would be relatively little compared to Miller - but in the end, it is understandable why Tampa would elect to move Miller regardless of whether they 'wanted' to or not. The reality was/is that they have a highly paid veteran group = Stamkos, Kucherov, Palat, Hedman, McDonagh, Johnson, Gourde, Killorn..... They have a few very good young talents on their roster - Point, Sergachev, Cirelli - but aside from a few of those mid round gems (Point and Cirelli) and that acquisition of Sergachev, they have somewhat depleted their prospect pool/picks in the process of contending, and acquirng players like McDonagh (and MIller) in the process. Vasielevsky is also a guy that has upticked from 3.5 to 9.5 million in the coming seasons. From 2011 forward they have dealt a fair amount of picks prospects/youth including Namestnikov, Drouin, Koekkoek didn' t quite pan out, DeAngelo, Masin didn't pan out, Howden and Jasek dealt, 2018 1st dealt.....really, what remains are Foote and their more longshot picks. Some decent prospects at the AHL level - Raddysh, Katchouk - a few NHL ready or near (Joseph, Stevens), but it's not hard to see why they may look to recoup some picks moving forward to alleviate what is still oncoming cap tightness. They sacrificed a good player and in the process recouped some (how much that turns out to be remains to be seen) of what they spent to acquire him. They weren't getting those kinds of futures for the other players they may have/likely were shopping, and moreover, in a tight cap market their ability to sell those other assets is quite doubtful imo. Edited January 24, 2020 by oldnews 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Just now, J-Dizzle said: Bro...Brochacho....Bromio....Brotato chip.... the only person losing their - and I quote - ‘$&!#’ here seems to be you. No one cares if you have a different opinion. People care that you try so hard to make everyone accept it when it doesn’t to seem to most - it would appear - like a good one No. People see someone disagreeing with someone else and then chime in their two cents which has no context and start losing it. I have maintained the same position from the beginning. This forum has a lost a lot of good member, recently, because of just that. People gang up and attack people's opinions they don't like. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 47 minutes ago, peaches5 said: I said from the beginning it was a fair deal but Vancouver should have been able to do better. It should have been a more lopsided trade based on Tampa needing to offload salary. At the time of the trade it as the general consensus of hockey analysts that Vancouver overpaid and could have gotten Miller Cheaper but there was a chance someone else might swoop in and steal JT and Vancouver didn't want to risk it. No, again spread this homerism on your own TBay board. Your team got bent over. Too bad. Accept losing the trade graciously. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 hours ago, peaches5 said: I think JB could have done a better job in determining how Tampa gets the pick. You had inside information on the process and what the other offers were? You sure keep talking as if you did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said: You had inside information on the process and what the other offers were? You sure keep talking as if you did. After the trade it is discussed by the NHL analysts and insiders and everything I said is what they said. You guys have completely forgotten what the NHL brass said when the trade was announced and the weeks after it. What people are saying now is nowhere near what was said in the summer. Edited January 25, 2020 by peaches5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, peaches5 said: This is a forum. Everyone here thinks you have to have the exact same opinion as them or they lose their $&!#. All I pointed out was things could have been better and people here can't handle it. You just stir up s&%$ with nothing to back it up. And if you need me to clarify, YOU SAY the Canucks could have gotten JT Miller cheaper. YOU SAY that no one else wanted JT Miller. YOU SAY that a cap team like Tampa would have taken less. My my......how does some random poster have soooo much more internal NHL information about the trade market than us other posters or even NHL insiders. So no, you are not some white knight trying to bring knowledge to the illiterate. You just think you are an expert when you are just another poster like the rest of us thinking your opinion is more right. And...you are never willing to admit there are smarter people like JB out there making hockey trades as they need to be made. I can't believe you just continue with this crap. It must give you some kinda weird high lol. Edit: The Canucks acquiring JT Miller in a trade was an excellent trade by JB. He totally rocked it. Edited January 25, 2020 by Kanukfanatic 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 hours ago, peaches5 said: No. People see someone disagreeing with someone else and then chime in their two cents which has no context and start losing it. I have maintained the same position from the beginning. This forum has a lost a lot of good member, recently, because of just that. People gang up and attack people's opinions they don't like. Did they go back to that toxic soup hfcanuks? Good lol. That place is disgusting but also full of posters that think they know more than actual paid hockey Canuck management and they just circle jerk the negativity hoping the Canucks fail in threads such as the tank thread. I can smell their stink from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: You just stir up s&%$ with nothing to back it up. So no, you are not some white knight trying to bring knowledge to the illiterate. You just think you are an expert when you are just another poster like the rest of us thinking your opinion is more right. I can't believe you just continue with this crap. It must give you some kinda weird high lol. You're definitely illiterate I won't argue with that. I didn't come up with anything. This is Ian MacIntyre shortly after the trade: Quote A draft devotee, Benning sent to the Lightning a third-round pick on Saturday plus a conditional first-round pick in one of the next two years. If the Canucks miss the playoffs in 2020, during their 50th anniversary in the NHL, the first-rounder is moved to 2021. If the Canucks miss the playoffs both years, the trade may not look very good. But Benning won’t have to worry about optics because he probably won’t still be GM unless Vancouver makes it back into the Stanley Cup tournament. There’s little doubt that Miller will help the Canucks get closer. He is a versatile, 26-year-old power forward with enough skill to average 20 goals and 51 points over the past four seasons with the Lightning and New York Rangers. The debate is whether he is worth the price of a first-round pick. What might that development hole look like down the road? https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-make-bold-j-t-miller-trade-questions-remain-defence/ You guys are the ones spreading miss information. It's pathetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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