Is the Toronto management trainwreck Oilers 2?

[*Buzzsaw*]

Just thinking about the situation Toronto management has placed themselves in.

 

Just like Edmonton with their pick fluke for McDavid, the Laffs were gifted, (only had a 20% chance to draft Matthews) with a bonafide Superstar in Auston Matthews.

 

With him, just like the Oilers with #97 they had the foundation for a Cup winning team... if they had the patience to add the right pieces and build around him.

 

We've all seen what has happened with the Oilers... they tried to assemble a Cup team in two seasons... signed a bunch of high priced free agents, traded away a Star who would be a #1 center on any other team, and generally scr*wed the pooch and squandered their resources.

 

Has Toronto done the same thing?  Did they try to assemble a Cup winner too fast?  Were their estimates of what would be required to sign Matthews and Marner way too low?  Beginning to look that way.

They did sign John Tavares for a decent price... he gave them the home town discount and probably they are paying a reasonable price for him.  Although you have to ask if they really needed two #1 centers on the same team?  Would they have been better to invest the money in an Allstar defenseman?  Hard to say... you can argue either way.

 

But if the Tavares acquisition could be considered a decent move... the investment of $7 million per year in William Nylander has to be considered a blunder.  Not only because he has considerably under-performed for a player of that price, but in addition, he was not a necessary piece for them to go forward.  They already had the offensive talent sufficient to make them a contender... it was their back end which needed help.  Kasperi Kapenen is more than sufficient to replace Nylander... logically the smart thing would be to trade #29 at the peak of his value and acquire a solid defenseman.  Instead of $7 million in CAP, they'd be paying less than 1/2 that with the dollars needed to pay Marner then available to sign him.

 

By the time they got to the Matthews contract, they had no options....  they had to pay market value or he would sit out and they'd lose their marquee attraction.  They couldn't afford to do with #34 what they did with Nylander and leave him as a hold out for 1/2 the season.  He'd demand a trade and be gone on the first train he could catch out of town.

 

And worst of all, their previous signings have left them with no CAP space to sign perhaps the key to future success... 3rd Star, Mitch Marner.

 

In addition the Laffs... with no CAP space and no picks to offer, (Jake Muzzin cost them that) are having to compete for defensemen at a significant disadvantage.  The one part of their roster which they should have focused on the most... the D... is basically having to take a back seat to all their other worries.

 

There is a real possibility they could end up this year with a significantly worse defensive corps than they fielded in 2018/2019... and how far did that take them in the playoffs?

 

From my perspective Toronto's management has made a series of compounding errors... maybe not quite as bad as the Coilers management... but nearly as bad.

 

Comments?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by *Buzzsaw*

[48MPHSlapShot]

Nah. I hate TO as much as the next sane person, but they're playoff team at least. 

[Nucker 67]

They were able to get rid of Marleau. As much as I despise the Leafs, they have assembled a great team. Not a fan of Gardiner and Kadri is a dirty jerk though. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to pay everyone. Marner is going to want $10+.

[Warhippy]

They have 2 solid defensive prospects as well as a quality supporting cast and a top 6 that consists of more than McJesus.

 

So no, they're not.  But their signings and the knowledge they're going to lose two of those uber studs shows they are still quite inept

[xereau]

13 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Nah. I hate TO as much as the next sane person, but they're playoff team at least. 

Last year, and they limped into the playoffs. They were terrible for the last 60% of the season. And they have not gotten better by trading Marleau and overpaying Billy Ny the Flamingo Guy. Their goalie is a headcase. Their shaky D just got shakier. I can see them on the outside looking in when Dumbass and his game of chicken with their best player, by far, Marner goes bad.  OP is onto something. The Leafs are going to implode, spectacularly.

Edited June 25, 2019 by xereau

[Alflives]

Totally agree.  I often wake up early, so listen to TO sports radio on the Internet.  Those guys talk about the Leafs having really good forwards, but no D, other than Reilly and Muzzin.  They were talking this morning about trading Kadri or Nylander for D help.  

I hate the Leafs and love hearing they’re suffering.  Dubass is in way over his head.  Shanahan should have went with Hunter, when Lou left.  No first this year, and no first next year.  Their prospect pool is very thin too.  They must keep Marner.  If he signs an offer sheet, and goes to another team, those first round picks will not help them now.  Without Marner, and their D being so weak, they might not make the playoffs this season.  

[BlastPast]

If Canucks management had made some of the moves Toronto's has -and yielded the exact same post-season success- this city would be in ruins .

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, xereau said:

Last year, and they limped into the playoffs. They were terrible for the last 60% of the season. And they have not gotten better by trading Marleau and overpaying Billy Ny the Flamingo Guy. Their goalie is a headcase. Their shaky D just got shakier. I can see them on the outside looking in when Dumbass and his game of chicken with their best player, by far, Marner goes bad.  OP is onto something. The Leafs are going to implode, spectacularly.

Agreed.  They must keep Marner.  He’s by far their best forward.  Really, they should have not signed JT.  Or if they were signing JT, then trade Matthews.  It’s a cap system.  

[48MPHSlapShot]

Just now, xereau said:

Last year, and they limped into the playoffs. They were terrible for the last 60% of the season. And they have not gotten better by trading Marleau and overpaying Billy Ny the Flamingo Guy. Their goalie is a headcase. Their shaky D just got shakier. I can see them on the outside looking in when Dumbass and his game of chicken with their best player, by far, Marner goes bad.  OP is onto something. The Leafs are going to implode, spectacularly.

I'd love to see it happen, but they have a solid core of forwards and a gamerbreaker in Reilly on defense. I don't necessarily know if they'll be able to improve all that much from this point on, so I doubt they'll win a cup any time soon, but I can't see them falling to the bottom of the conference or anything. Worse comes to worse, they can sell off some of  the assets they have and kickstart another rebuild. 

[Alflives]

Just now, BlastPast said:

If Canucks management had made some of the moves Toronto's has -and yielded the exact same post-season success- this city would be in ruins .

Could you imagine the outcry here if Benning used our 2020 or 2021 first to dump a contract like Dubas did with Marleau’s?  When ?Burke was in TO he gave up three firsts, but at least got a young Kessel in return.  Dubas gave up 2 first in the last 4 months and got back Muzzin.  

[Rick Blight]

After they sign Marner they are going to have 4 forwards taking up 50% of their cap.......hard to believe that is a formula for success.

[*Buzzsaw*]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

They were able to get rid of Marleau. As much as I despise the Leafs, they have assembled a great team. Not a fan of Gardiner and Kadri is a dirty jerk though. I'm not sure how they're going to be able to pay everyone. Marner is going to want $10+.

Getting rid of Marleau cost them a #1 pick.... with nothing in return except the CAP dump.

 

How could Laffs management not see this coming when they signed Marleau to the contract in the first place????.... the guy was 39 years old.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I'd love to see it happen, but they have a solid core of forwards and a gamerbreaker in Reilly on defense. I don't necessarily know if they'll be able to improve all that much from this point on, so I doubt they'll win a cup any time soon, but I can't see them falling to the bottom of the conference or anything. Worse comes to worse, they can sell off some of  the assets they have and kickstart another rebuild. 

In this cap world it’s not so easy to sell off high cost assets though.  Nashville only got a couple seconds, and a couple average players for 3 years of PK (9mil per) from NJ.  With the cap not increasing those big dollar contracts have limited value.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Getting rid of Marleau cost them a #1 pick.... with nothing in return except the CAP dump.

 

How could Laffs management not see this coming when they signed Marleau to the contract in the first place????.... the guy was 39 years old.

That’s exactly why SAN Jose didn’t sign Marleau.  

[xereau]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Could you imagine the outcry here if Benning used our 2020 or 2021 first to dump a contract like Dubas did with Marleau’s?  When ?Burke was in TO he gave up three firsts, but at least got a young Kessel in return.  Dubas gave up 2 first in the last 4 months and got back Muzzin.  

better be a gooooood muffin for that price

[Master Higgins]

Sure they paid the price to dump a bad contract, and i have to assume they will re sign marner. But they will most likely end up having to fill out their nhl roster with ahl talent just for the cost savings. For a team that already had holes and almost no depth, things could get dicey in leaf land. They may only be a legit playoff team as long as JT can live up to his career year last year. 

[Rick Blight]

3 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Getting rid of Marleau cost them a #1 pick.... with nothing in return except the CAP dump.

 

How could Laffs management not see this coming when they signed Marleau to the contract in the first place????.... the guy was 39 years old.

I honestly think they believed they would be good enough to win the Cup and future salary cap implications be damned. Don't think this will end too well for them.

[-AJ-]

Leafs are a playoff team and a good one at that. They're far above where Edmonton is. We'll see how things develop over the next few years though.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Just now, -AJ- said:

Leafs are a playoff team and a good one at that. They're far above where Edmonton is. We'll see how things develop over the next few years though.

I don't disagree they are a better team than Edmonton... they have two scoring lines... (assuming they sign Marner) but are they a legitimate contender with their back end?

 

From my perspective they got their priorities completely wrong.  Signing Marleau and Nylander were huge mistakes.

 

What kind of defensive help could they have acquired with a first round pick and Nylander as trade bait?  I'd say at minimum they could have received Subban, probably for much less.

[-AJ-]

2 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I don't disagree they are a better team than Edmonton... they have two scoring lines... (assuming they sign Marner) but are they a legitimate contender with their back end?

 

From my perspective they got their priorities completely wrong.  Signing Marleau and Nylander were huge mistakes.

 

What kind of defensive help could they have acquired with a first round pick and Nylander as trade bait?  I'd say at minimum they could have received Subban, probably for much less.

I'd agree with you there.