The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[Ryan Strome]

7 hours ago, BPA said:

Well that's silly.  Natural resources are still a commodity and should qualify for fiscal stabilization. 

 

I also think Quebec is riding the gravy train as well.  That's probably the main problem for everything. 

I'm glad you agree because as FTG said him and I have mentioned this a bunch of times and it goes unanswered. The reality is those arguing how Alberta isn't getting screwed, ie Jim, hip, inane don't have a clue how equalization works. Even the ndp in Alberta called the equalization formula a joke.

[Boudrias]

8 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In current transfer payments there’s a lot of rule set up that determines on how much each province gives.  It’s not simply you make the most, you pay the most that people love to parrot so much. 

 

 

First, we have fiscal stabilization that pays up to $60 per capita to provinces that suddenly lose more than 5% of their revenue.  It’s why a province like Ontario still received $1 billion despite being a have province.  Alberta should also fall into that category since lost more than 5% the last few years but here’s the kicker, fiscal stabilization doesn’t count for natural resource revenue unless it loses over 50%.  So Alberta gets next to no benefit for that. 

 

But where Natural resources don’t account for fiscal stabilization, they sure do count for equalization.  With Equalization payments it’s not just the personal income taxes of individuals that so many here love to parrot. There are five different revenue streams taken into consideration,  personal income taxes, business income taxes, consumption taxes, property taxes and Alberta’s biggest stream natural resource revenues.  Because Alberta is able to generate large amounts of revenue from it’s natural resource it will always be on the hook for equalization payments, even if the personal and business income taxes drop below other provinces. 

 

The formula to calculated the “how much” is in place for 3 year segments.  It’s set up this way to allow for changes in the market.  With the way Alberta has been hurting in the down turn of oil the last four years, you would assume this the ideal reason for adjustment.  But Trudeau approved the current plan to remain the same for another 3 years in 2018. 

 

It’s a system that has some major flaws that many of you are not willing to admit.  One example would be A province like Quebec has government owned hydro,  they can technically artificially keep prices low to bring in lows revenue that in turn makes the province look poorer than they actually are = more equalization money.  It’s a win/win for them as lower hydro looks good on a provincial political level but also helps keep their ability to generate revenue lower than it actually should be. 
 

trevor Tombe did a decent job simplifying in that news article to give people who have zero clue a rough idea on how it works. The problem is you got people like hip that take the simplified approach as gospel and are willing to die on that argument Pretending they know how it works.  But if you really enjoy trevor Tombe. He writes a number of blog posts on equalization payments and he goes way more in depth on it far beyond most here’s comprehension. But if you can keep up. One I read a few months ago did a really good job explaining how complex the formula really is, how the formula leaves a lot of grey area in the numbers (aka Ontario last year) and even how some provinces (Quebec) takes full advantage of the system and will never change because it’s in there favor, like I mentioned above. 
 

anyways this is like the 5th times I’ve posted this in this very thread and I’m tired of it when it seems to go on deaf ears. So I’m done with this topic and thread for a while. Take this post for what it’s worth and do what ever you wish with it, I won’t loose sleep over it. 

 

Trying to have a discussion here is a waste of time. To many small minds trying to make their day debating rather than gaining perspective. I am attending a conference next weekend and will be curious to see how the Wexit process is developing. Michelle Remple's video was heart felt but did not have as much financial info as it should. Incredibly important that MP's in the West receive a steady flow of info. Kenney should be actively pursuing the CPP split and turfing the RCMP out. 

[Ryan Strome]

@BPA I agree Quebec is the problem. Quebec could be the shale capital of Canada but won't develop it because it would take away the "gravy train." Ftg is absolutely right the government will keep hydro low for political purposes while more than make that revenue from Alberta. However Legualt  has said he wants to pull Quebec out of being a have not province and  he should there is no sense pride being dependent on others. That being said 13 billion free dollars is hard to pass up as they would now fall under the same troubles with a flawed equalization system however I believe if they developed their shale gas the government of either colour in Ottawa would immediately change the equalization formula. 

[Ryan Strome]

7 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Trying to have a discussion here is a waste of time. To many small minds trying to make their day debating rather than gaining perspective. I am attending a conference next weekend and will be curious to see how the Wexit process is developing. Michelle Remple's video was heart felt but did not have as much financial info as it should. Incredibly important that MP's in the West receive a steady flow of info. Kenney should be actively pursuing the CPP split and turfing the RCMP out. 

There is no more debating...when us "rig pigs" use facts we get the silent treatment for a couple days and then we get back to how Alberta is just crying. It's beyond stupid, honestly. The only one I think who sometimes gets it but won't admit it is @Jimmy McGill but he like politicians has to keep his uneducated base happy, ie hip and gurn. 

[Boudrias]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

There is no more debating...when us "rig pigs" use facts we get the silent treatment for a couple days and then we get back to how Alberta is just crying. It's beyond stupid, honestly. The only one I think who sometimes gets it but won't admit it is @Jimmy McGill but he like politicians has to keep his uneducated base happy, ie hip and gurn. 

I am hearing more and more truly sad stories about people on their last legs financially and crime in areas that never had a problem before. SW Calgary, Okatoks and especially Lehtbridge. 

[inane]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

There is no more debating...when us "rig pigs" use facts we get the silent treatment for a couple days and then we get back to how Alberta is just crying. It's beyond stupid, honestly. The only one I think who sometimes gets it but won't admit it is @Jimmy McGill but he like politicians has to keep his uneducated base happy, ie hip and gurn. 

You guys are just sheep man, we know how it really works. We're trying to educate you on a hockey forum using real facts, but you're just unwilling to see the real truth dude. 

 

Lol

[BPA]

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I am hearing more and more truly sad stories about people on their last legs financially and crime in areas that never had a problem before. SW Calgary, Okatoks and especially Lehtbridge. 

Every Province has their share of sad stories and crime.

[BPA]

Quebec (11M) and Ontario (14M) having the largest population while also being "Have Not" Provinces is what is dragging all of us down.

[RowdyCanuck]

9 hours ago, Warhippy said:

It doesn't matter.

 

You get it.  I get it.  Most get it.

 

But firmly entrenched beliefs refuse to accept it as anything but everyone out to get them.  

 

25 minutes ago, inane said:

You guys are just sheep man, we know how it really works. We're trying to educate you on a hockey forum using real facts, but you're just unwilling to see the real truth dude. 

 

Lol

Lol stick to b.c Cause you both have showed you know very little about oil and gas indistries in Canada so maybe just stay in b.c with your head in the ground thinking your smarter lol

hippie if you keep this up I'll bring back the clown gifs cause that's what you both are acting like....RS has shown he will atleast debate something , you two just come with the same crap , no matter if someone already put hippie in his place........or proved  him wrong.......

debate or shut up.....some of us are actually intrested in trying to work together but with posters like you, it's hard to keep that conversation going .........

[Ryan Strome]

18 minutes ago, BPA said:

Quebec (11M) and Ontario (14M) having the largest population while also being "Have Not" Provinces is what is dragging all of us down.

Well Ontario flips  back and fourth but it's the formula that is hurting Alberta and and to a lesser extent Saskatchewan and Bc. The program will always benefit Ontario and Quebec as they have all the seats. 

[Ryan Strome]

36 minutes ago, inane said:

You guys are just sheep man, we know how it really works. We're trying to educate you on a hockey forum using real facts, but you're just unwilling to see the real truth dude. 

 

Lol

Lmao you have no clue how it works, dude..

29 minutes ago, BPA said:

Every Province has their share of sad stories and crime.

They do, that's no question but generally when you're hurting you don't continue to fund the government to the tune of 20 plus billion a year. The formula has to change to allow us to use that money to help Alberta not Quebec who is running a 4 billion dollar surplus. 

[inane]

27 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

 

Lol stick to b.c Cause you both have showed you know very little about oil and gas indistries in Canada so maybe just stay in b.c with your head in the ground thinking your smarter lol

hippie if you keep this up I'll bring back the clown gifs cause that's what you both are acting like....RS has shown he will atleast debate something , you two just come with the same crap , no matter if someone already put hippie in his place........or proved  him wrong.......

debate or shut up.....some of us are actually intrested in trying to work together but with posters like you, it's hard to keep that conversation going .........

I've never claimed to know the oil and gas industry well nor have I claimed to know details about equalization. Don't lump everyone together, although I know that is easy.

 

I don't really know you or your shtick, but RS doesn't debate. He belittles, mocks, holds weird personal grudges and insults. I'm not playing the dumb 'left vs right' bs.

 

And you're not interested in working together lol you want to wexit. HAHA. Don't tell me you have the same abusive partner philosophy RS does lol

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, inane said:

I've never claimed to know the oil and gas industry well nor have I claimed to know details about equalization. Don't lump everyone together, although I know that is easy.

 

I don't really know you or your shtick, but RS doesn't debate. He belittles, mocks, holds weird personal grudges and insults. I'm not playing the dumb 'left vs right' bs.

 

And you're not interested in working together lol you want to wexit. HAHA. Don't tell me you have the same abusive partner philosophy RS does lol

 

 

I have debated this topic more than anyone in this thread. You and hip make personal attacks and belittle so I respond to you two doing the same and you guys cry. Last time I checked I have been on cdc for over 10 years so I'm pretty sure the attacks aren't that bad or I would be gone. You're such a sjw who won't debate or discuss anything. Remember your outrage over "the black vote"?

[inane]

19 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I have debated this topic more than anyone in this thread. You and hip make personal attacks and belittle so I respond to you two doing the same and you guys cry. Last time I checked I have been on cdc for over 10 years so I'm pretty sure the attacks aren't that bad or I would be gone. You're such a sjw who won't debate or discuss anything. Remember your outrage over "the black vote"?

I attack your ideas. Your premises. Your strawmen arguments. I mock your hypocrisy. I've never once personally attacked you or your work. You belittle my intelligence, mock me for housing refugees, persistently call me a liar.

 

You go personal instead of the debating the issues. Am I a dick on here sometimes? Sure. But it's on topic. I wish you could do the same. 

 

[Warhippy]

44 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I have debated this topic more than anyone in this thread. You and hip make personal attacks and belittle so I respond to you two doing the same and you guys cry. Last time I checked I have been on cdc for over 10 years so I'm pretty sure the attacks aren't that bad or I would be gone. You're such a sjw who won't debate or discuss anything. Remember your outrage over "the black vote"?

You've literally brought my job, personal characteristics, family, choices, beliefs and more.  You've accused me of supporting X, Y or Z, called me a socialist stated I intentionally want to hurt people and so much more in this discussion in an attempt to avoid answering simple questions or because you've been proven wrong.

 

Your pathetic gaslighting holds no weight here.  Like at all.

 

Debate is a discourse and back and forth between two parties.  You refuse to debate, you're right and everyone else is either wrong, doesn't understand or is out to get you and Alberta.  Period.

 

That's the stance you've taken and your posts and position show it.

 

Don't pretend you have some moral high ground because I know full well I am not the only person you speak to like this.  Of course though, it could very well just be everyone else who has disagreed with you.  At any time.  But not you.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Warhippy

[Ryan Strome]

21 minutes ago, inane said:

I attack your ideas. Your premises. Your strawmen arguments. I mock your hypocrisy. I've never once personally attacked you or your work. You belittle my intelligence, mock me for housing refugees, persistently call me a liar.

 

You go personal instead of the debating the issues. Am I a dick on here sometimes? Sure. But it's on topic. I wish you could do the same. 

 

I never mocked you for housing refugees, I mocked you because you want praise for it. You don't attack ideas, nor have I showed any hypocrisy. You call Albertans cry babies and expect people to just take those comments. We have done more for Canada than anyone else. Telling you what you're saying is ridiculous isn't attacking your intelligence. You said why are we mad? We are mad because we give so much to all of Canada while having many working against us but meanwhile are dependent on our money. Furthermore, our economy has been in rough times since 2014 leading to significant unemployment and increased debt yet we keep giving 3 times more than the next closest province. Rather then understand the frustration you want to laugh about it. Separation is real here because of decisions by Ottawa to take advantage of Alberta. Look at hip he loves the NEP cheap fuel for all Canadians, why doesn't BC sell cheap lumber to all Canadians? Or cheap ice wine? Maybe cheap weed? Nope just Alberta should lose. Now we get less for our oil because of pipeline capacity which only benefits the Americans and it's people in BC and Quebec hurting Alberta and helping the Americans. You can't make this stuff up. 

 

So let's have a debate, inane.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ryan Strome

[Ryan Strome]

How many times can you tell someone you're done with them?

[thedestroyerofworlds]

How many times does the fact that Alberta Conservatives, with the current premier being a key figure, were involved in setting the rules for the very equalization program they now are complaining about?  

 

How many times does it have to be pointed out that decisions made by Albertan governments, almost entirely from the conservative side of the aisle, have made their bed and now they want the rules changed mid game?

 

Man what a bunch of whiny little snowflake babies.  Waaaaaaaaaaaa

[JM_]

16 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

First you can't compare a country to a province, 

#wexit

 

16 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Best paid doctors, nurses, teachers, etc. Best highways in the country, beautiful hospitals, investing in social programs, etc. Ralph was right, give back, those resources belong to Albertans also making services the best is giving back.

its actually hard to justify "best" but good, on par with the other big centres, sure. #wexit puts a lot of that at risk, though. You'd better hope the politicians you're banking your future on really have a solid plan to retain those professionals, and an oversimplified idea that you'll have even more money to throw at them isn't a retention plan. 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

One more:

 

How many times does it have to be pointed out that Alberta would have to become a have not to get more equalization?  Taxes would have to be raised and the economy would have to tank further than it has.  No Albertans want that do they?  Neither do we.  So dont call us antialberta then.