Saudi Arabia declares oil price war on fellow OPEC (and non OPEC)members.

[RowdyCanuck]

48 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

90% of our entire GDP is created outside of oil and gas.  That's explanation enough for me.  Diversify now or die looking like Quebec, it's that simple.  Oil and Gas is never coming back to the $70 a barrel needed for profitability.  I don't want a dime of my tax money going to corporations unless it's with a clear stake in the ownership of a company coming back.  I don't want a dime of my tax money going to a company still producing in other markets while automating or shutting production here in Canada.  I don't want a dime of my tax money going to a corporation that has allowed numerous shell companies to declare bankruptcy leaving orphaned wells tot eh taxpayer to clean up.

 

I want my tax money going to Albertans, to those currently suffering in ft Mac, to a diversified economy not dependant on US oil and Gas refinement or corporations.  The rest of the nation does just fine and after 5 years is evidenced to be able to do just fine with lowered or negative trading oil prices.  So it's time to get off the teet and do something different for once.

 

Maybe...think like a hobby farm

But the thing is you can still make money off oil and gas just not as much so if another industry or province needed skilled tradesmen and woman and hard working labours then oil down sizing wouldn't hurt as much but no province or industries need them or can attract them. 

 

Look at b.c 25 mills shut down about 5 months ago and did it affect you? Or what do you do with those people? Don't forget mill works make decent to good money.......also remote areas / towns not cities....

[Warhippy]

10 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

But the thing is you can still make money off oil and gas just not as much so if another industry or province needed skilled tradesmen and woman and hard working labours then oil down sizing wouldn't hurt as much but no province or industries need them or can attract them. 

 

Look at b.c 25 mills shut down about 5 months ago and did it affect you? Or what do you do with those people? Don't forget mill works make decent to good money.......also remote areas / towns not cities....

Yes we can still make money off of oil and gas.  But we don't need to give corporations tens of billions to do it.

 

Every province needs skilled and qualified tradespeople.  The issue with oil is that welders didn't learn how to weld, they learned how to produce on an assembly.  Industrial trades will need basic training for residential work but it's there and it's there in buckets.  A lot of workers in the patch REFUSE to go elsewhere to work though because of years, decades of extreme overpayment.  That's on them.  You work in the patch?  Than you know full well it's true.

 

Look at BC, 25 mills shut down.  BC is still working.  BCs forestry sector has been devastated since the 90s.  We've seen literally hundreds of mills, pulp/fibre/production shut down in the last 2 decades.  But BC keeps producing.  Those people moved on to other trades or positions.  See Barriere/McLure, after the fire burned that area to the ground everyone left for other work.  So many jobs lost to automation, dwindling supplies and shoddy management since 2000 but BC has a diversified economy that manages to get by and still be a top 3 earner in the nation.

 

Think on that

[JM_]

1 hour ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Really? I think we proved we are the big swinger  Alberta crashes everyone else follows right behind ha  kinda sad how Canada is so dependent on one province or one thing......

yeah but it actually doesn't. 

 

Yes oil revenue is important. But you need it to be the most important, the biggest, everyone crashes, etc. 

 

But you just can't support your excessive p.o.v. on it. 108/1700 billion in GDP in 2019. Important, yup. You're daydream scenario, nope.

 

 https://www.capp.ca/economy/canadian-economic-contribution/

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

You sit and whine for years about "opinion's" yet always manage to only dredge up opinions to further your argument.

 

I will respond to one level of this childish rant from this author.  Who seems to be making a career out of petulance.

 

1.  According to the International Energy Agency, oil demand is expected to continue to grow until at least 2030 by an additional one million barrels of oil per day every year. Demand will not drop off to zero then but will “level off,” so it’s not a question of whether or not oil will continue to be needed but who will supply that growing demand. Most Canadians would, or at least should, prefer to consume Canadian oil rather than oil that enriches OPEC dictators, Russia and Venezuela.

 

2.  On April 17, Kenney said: “I want to remind our fellow Canadians . . . that when we were in the midst of the global financial crisis 12 years ago, the national government stepped in to ensure a future for the central Canadian auto manufacturing sector. That was the right thing to do. It helped to save that sector and with it hundreds of thousands of jobs.

 

3.  “But during that global financial crisis, one of the reasons Canada got through it stronger than virtually any other developed country was primarily because of the strength of the Alberta oil and gas sector,” he said.

 

4.  “That is one expression of how Alberta has always been there to help the rest of the country. This is a sector that helps to sustain approximately 800,000 jobs directly and indirectly, that generates tens of billions of dollars of revenue — more than any other industry in the country — revenue that goes to support things like world-class health care, the system that we all count on right now.”

 

 

Oil demand is expected to grow.  Here is IEA's report from last year, which is evidently what was cited in Licia's rant.  https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2019. These estimates have since been revised.  Numerous nations across the globe have announced massive dumps of money in to sustainable energy and plans to purchase alternative energy vehicles for transit.  That estimate will be further revised and lowered.  As for most Canadians wanting to buy Canadian.  We tried that, but one province told everyone east of Sask to freeze in the dark.  Since then the oil in this nation has been sole sourced to the US markets which keeps US politicians, strategic premiums and corporations happy as it helps them dictate 1/3 of their oil needs.  Why is this revisionist history taking place now?  We HAD a chance, but people didn't want to take it because instead of working with the proposed plan to make it more viable they thumbed their noses at it and that's that.  We can't go back now it's way to late.

 

On April 17th Jason Kenney mislead his fellow Canadians.  In 2008, Oil bounced between $90 a barrel and $110 a barrel.  Oil is now trading at a negative.  Claiming oil wealth brought us through as opposed to strong banking policies, consistent regulations to ensure we didn't falter the same way other G20 nations did was what saved us. As much of the over $100 billion was never truly recouped in the way that was promised.

 

As for saving the auto sector, the corps that took that money then still laid people off and closed plants less than 18 months later.  The government thens old the shares garnered at a loss.  Again, this revisionist history is amazing.

 

Alberta has helped the rest of the nation, much like the rest of the nation has helped Alberta.  But Alberta has been faltering for over 6 years since oil started tanking in 2014.  This was not Notley.  This was not Trudeau.  This was predominantly due to market forces.  The US hale explosion, reinvestment in the permian, new gas fields in NE Australia and developments in Russia outside of the Caucasus including multiple pipelines in to Europe and Asia.  Added the OPEC issues which echo what happened in the mid to late 70s through the 80s which lead to the US and Canada announcing plans for strategic oil plans which fell apart.

 

Again much of this is taken numbers out of context, using older reports and effectively revising history to suit an argument that has so very little to do with Canadian policy and so much to do with world market forces that it borders on the childish.

 

Yet another lie. I don't know why I bother with you, especially given your understanding on politics and economics but I get annoyed when you use opinion pieces and call it facts. I said good read...read it or don't, but I thought was worth reading. I also never mentioned you to read as you likely wouldn't have a clue what you're reading. 

[Ryan Strome]

31 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Yes we can still make money off of oil and gas.  But we don't need to give corporations tens of billions to do it.

 

Every province needs skilled and qualified tradespeople.  The issue with oil is that welders didn't learn how to weld, they learned how to produce on an assembly.  Industrial trades will need basic training for residential work but it's there and it's there in buckets.  A lot of workers in the patch REFUSE to go elsewhere to work though because of years, decades of extreme overpayment.  That's on them.  You work in the patch?  Than you know full well it's true.

 

Look at BC, 25 mills shut down.  BC is still working.  BCs forestry sector has been devastated since the 90s.  We've seen literally hundreds of mills, pulp/fibre/production shut down in the last 2 decades.  But BC keeps producing.  Those people moved on to other trades or positions.  See Barriere/McLure, after the fire burned that area to the ground everyone left for other work.  So many jobs lost to automation, dwindling supplies and shoddy management since 2000 but BC has a diversified economy that manages to get by and still be a top 3 earner in the nation.

 

Think on that

Top 3 earner?

Alberta 

Saskatchewan 

Ontario 

 

BC is diversified in low paying service sector jobs. Production welders in the patch?? Excuse me??

 

BC doesn't keep producing..it's high taxed, sold out to China. The young leave for Alberta and seniors retire in BC. 

 

Wasn't Alberta still the fastest growing province?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ryan Strome

[Warhippy]

26 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah but it actually doesn't. 

 

Yes oil revenue is important. But you need it to be the most important, the biggest, everyone crashes, etc. 

 

But you just can't support your excessive p.o.v. on it. 108/1700 billion in GDP in 2019. Important, yup. You're daydream scenario, nope.

 

https://www.capp.ca/economy/canadian-economic-contribution/

 

 

Stupid facts

Stupid numbers

 

They're just like...your opinion man

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

BC is diversified in low paying service sector jobs. Production welders in the patch?? Excuse me??

wow its a neat trick that we don't receive equalization then isn't it? 

 

20 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

sold out to China.

where was it again you want to be able to send AB oil to? 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

wow its a neat trick that we don't receive equalization then isn't it? 

 

where was it again you want to be able to send AB oil to? 

1) You need to get up to speed on completely how equalization works.

 

2) Oil from TMX expansion will likely predominantly go to the US. It's about pipeline capacity. 

 

[Ryan Strome]

38 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah but it actually doesn't. 

 

Yes oil revenue is important. But you need it to be the most important, the biggest, everyone crashes, etc. 

 

But you just can't support your excessive p.o.v. on it. 108/1700 billion in GDP in 2019. Important, yup. You're daydream scenario, nope.

 

https://www.capp.ca/economy/canadian-economic-contribution/

 

 

Sounds pretty important to me.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

1) You need to get up to speed on completely how equalization works.

 

2) Oil from TMX expansion will likely predominantly go to the US. It's about pipeline capacity. 

 

oh, so now BC doesn't take it but somehow we do take it?  

 

TMX wlil go where now?

 

The simple truth is that Canada’s oil will fetch a better price if we give ourselves the option of shipping more of it via Trans Mountain’s Pacific tidewater terminal in Burrard Inlet. Canada will earn more on every barrel of oil that’s piped west compared to those sold to our existing customers in the United States Midwest market, a differential that exists regardless of the price of oil. The Project will allow Canadian oil to be delivered to international markets and, as a result, Canada will earn approximately $3.7 billion more per year.

 

https://www.transmountain.com/project-overview

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Sounds pretty important to me.

I've never said otherwise. Its ~1/10th of our GDP. Not 9/10ths like you guys like to claim. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

oh, so now BC doesn't take it but somehow we do take it?  

 

TMX wlil go where now?

 

The simple truth is that Canada’s oil will fetch a better price if we give ourselves the option of shipping more of it via Trans Mountain’s Pacific tidewater terminal in Burrard Inlet. Canada will earn more on every barrel of oil that’s piped west compared to those sold to our existing customers in the United States Midwest market, a differential that exists regardless of the price of oil. The Project will allow Canadian oil to be delivered to international markets and, as a result, Canada will earn approximately $3.7 billion more per year.

 

https://www.transmountain.com/project-overview

1) yes BC has received equalization, but check out the natural resource structure around equalization, it essentially will always screw natural resources provinces. 

 

2) Ideally yes, however I'm seeing so much about it continuing to go to the US. The price will come up, Canada's biggest issue is pipeline capacity. 

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I've never said otherwise. Its ~1/10th of our GDP. Not 9/10ths like you guys like to claim. 

I think 1 liar in this thread is enough, Jim.

 

[JM_]

51 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

1) yes BC has received equalization, but check out the natural resource structure around equalization, it essentially will always screw natural resources provinces. 

 

2) Ideally yes, however I'm seeing so much about it continuing to go to the US. The price will come up, Canada's biggest issue is pipeline capacity. 

I think 1 liar in this thread is enough, Jim.

 

liar? oh I thought this was the AB hyperbole thread. My bad.

 

Take up the natural resource issue with Harper, he's the one that made the new formula. If you're not happy with the CPC policy I don't know who would make you happy on that one.

 

If all we're doing is sending more to the US that seems totally pointless to have bought it. Its just more low prices and US dependence. All the more reason to diversify into other areas then. 

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

liar? oh I thought this was the AB hyperbole thread. My bad.

 

Take up the natural resource issue with Harper, he's the one that made the new formula. If you're not happy with the CPC policy I don't know who would make you happy on that one.

 

If all we're doing is sending more to the US that seems totally pointless to have bought it. Its just more low prices and US dependence. All the more reason to diversify into other areas then. 

1) I have multiple times.

 

2) PPC

 

3) Wholeheartedly agree.

Who knows behind the scenes maybe there was the threat of freedom bombs.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

24 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

1) I have multiple times.

 

2) PPC

 

3) Wholeheartedly agree.

Who knows behind the scenes maybe there was the threat of freedom bombs.

You mean that party that couldn't get a single MP elected with that terrible PM JT at the helm?  The party who couldn't even get their leader elected?  The party who got fewer votes than that left wing crazy Green Party  (The Greens got 4 times the PPC's votes BTW).  You mean that party.  That's the party we should be turning to for leadership.  Are you trying to pull a TRUMP and say that this was sarcasm?

[Ryan Strome]

29 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

You mean that party that couldn't get a single MP elected with that terrible PM JT at the helm?  The party who couldn't even get their leader elected?  The party who got fewer votes than that left wing crazy Green Party  (The Greens got 4 times the PPC's votes BTW).  You mean that party.  That's the party we should be turning to for leadership.  Are you trying to pull a TRUMP and say that this was sarcasm?

Yet when the BC ndp was obliterated you called them good. Yes I prefer their views on equalization. It's funny how against democracy you are. You have shown it on Brexit and Trump yet when your party loses or doesn't get the most votes you change your tune. Anyway, what mall was it?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ryan Strome

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

1) You need to get up to speed on completely how equalization works.

Oh man. Oh this is good 

 

 

Catch us up.  How does equalization work

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

I think 1 liar in this thread is enough, Jim.

 

I mean u guess if you have decided outright ignorance, stupidity, obfuscation or idiocy isn't lying

 

Sure.  Stick around

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Oh man. Oh this is good 

 

 

Catch us up.  How does equalization work

You were already educated just like you were on the trans Canada, what ndp stood for, who changed mp's benefits, and I also just educated you on your claim about BC.

 

Do you get the point? You haven't a clue on much outside of cameras. You non stop make comments that are complete BS.

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Warhippy said:

I mean u guess if you have decided outright ignorance, stupidity, obfuscation or idiocy isn't lying

 

Sure.  Stick around

Again, all you do is post incorrect nonsense, but I apologize it's not lies it's just you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

"The trans Canada is in fact federal jurisdiction."