Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #40

[-AJ-]

Not sure when I'll get to the next one here. I have to leave for work soon and will probably be fairly tired afterwards (as if I'm not right now). We'll see how it all works out.

 

In the meantime, feel free to continue voting or getting nominations in.

[Azzy]

I'm sure others have said it, but the bias towards modern players is laughable in this list. How Larionov isn't in the top 20, let alone the top 40, is insane.

[Baratheon]

1 hour ago, Azzy said:

I'm sure others have said it, but the bias towards modern players is laughable in this list. How Larionov isn't in the top 20, let alone the top 40, is insane.

Romanticizing the past is also a problem that has come up in the list.  There are only 2 active Canucks voted in right now (looks like a 3rd is coming)

Make a case for Larionov.  He played 3 seasons for us and got over 50 points and 20 goals once during that time.  

 

Elias Pettersson hasn't even been nominated yet he has arguably been more impressive in his 2 years than Igor in 3.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Baratheon

[IBatch]

44 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

Romanticizing the past is also a problem that has come up in the list.  There are only 2 active Canucks voted in right now (looks like a 3rd is coming)

Make a case for Larionov.  He played 3 seasons for us and got over 50 points and 20 goals once during that time.  

 

Elias Pettersson hasn't even been nominated yet he has arguably been more impressive in his 2 years than Igor in 3.

Yes in both regards - although i think that the poster your commenting on has a point - just not on Larionov.  He did make an impact while here and got a cool nickname for his work and was a great player no doubt but not really a great Canuck given it was a short stint with us.   The list isn’t based on best players - otherwise Messier would unfortunately be number one - and Mogilny would move way up etc.   Subjective for sure.   Which is fine - do feel that without re-hashing the past the list would look too much like the top 50 all-time scorers though - or too much the other way and based on games played.   Overall I’m pretty happy with the list - even a but surprised.   Your votes and nominations have shown you know your history.   Think EP will end up nominated fairly soon and once he’s a voting option probably get in. 
 

edit:  As far as active Canucks go / hard to have anyone else on it yet - but the last core has a stranglehold all over the list (with Hamhuis maybe still coming).  BB and EP have a case - EP a the stronger one maybe but then Reinhart, Tallon, Hlinka etc also have to be considered...ha ha there I go again.  Larionov vs BB?  

Edited April 30, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Azzy said:

I'm sure others have said it, but the bias towards modern players is laughable in this list. How Larionov isn't in the top 20, let alone the top 40, is insane.

Larionov would be a top five all-time Canuck if he played his entire career for us.  One of the best second line centers in the history of the NHL - His career is crazy long late 70’s all the way to 2004.  Didn’t come to the NHL until after 12 seasons with the red machine ... and part of the famed KLM line that dominated.   It was crazy how good Makarov was ... a few years older played a long time too and even though near the end of his career on a terrible SJ team he was dominating on the ice.   Read an article where the coach (think it was Crisp at the time) was showing Makarov where to go on the ice and he said “No no no that’s not how you do this” and grabbed the chalk from his hand and then started showing where EVERY guy on the ice should go. After that he never coached that line again and let Makarov work with his linemates separately.  And it worked that team would have been way, way worse without that line (scored 68 points after 20 years of hockey his second to last season) ...Fesitov was awesome too -and these guys were in the 30’s when they came over (and are why the Calder rules changed as they definitely were not rookies but wily pro’s).  Imagine what the 80’s NHL would have looked like with them in it during their primes...wow.  Laid severe beatings on us except for 1987...

[Baratheon]

39 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes in both regards - although i think that the poster your commenting on has a point - just not on Larionov.  He did make an impact while here and got a cool nickname for his work and was a great player no doubt but not really a great Canuck given it was a short stint with us.   The list isn’t based on best players - otherwise Messier would unfortunately be number one - and Mogilny would move way up etc.   Subjective for sure.   Which is fine - do feel that without re-hashing the past the list would look too much like the top 50 all-time scorers though - or too much the other way and based on games played.   Overall I’m pretty happy with the list - even a but surprised.   Your votes and nominations have shown you know your history.   Think EP will end up nominated fairly soon and once he’s a voting option probably get in. 
 

edit:  As far as active Canucks go / hard to have anyone else on it yet - but the last core has a stranglehold all over the list (with Hamhuis maybe still coming).  BB and EP have a case - EP a the stronger one maybe but then Reinhart, Tallon, Hlinka etc also have to be considered...ha ha there I go again.  Larionov vs BB?  

No argument from me!  I wasn't meaning that there SHOULD be more active Canucks on the list.  I was just using it as an example that I don't think recency bias has been that big of a problem.  (though for sure there have been a couple that I raised my eyebrows at)

 

The last core not only made it to the finals but also won back to back Presidents trophies so I'm kinda not surprised there are so many on the list.  I might quibble with their placement a little bit but so far there is nobody from that core on the list that I would not have in my top 50.  The funny thing is that I actually WANT to go for Petey, Boeser and Hughes because I think this list will look very different in 10 years.  I'm not allowed to predict the future in that way however haha.  So I gotta keep trying to make sure Butcher and Murzyn don't get forgotten lol

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

No argument from me!  I wasn't meaning that there SHOULD be more active Canucks on the list.  I was just using it as an example that I don't think recency bias has been that big of a problem.  (though for sure there have been a couple that I raised my eyebrows at)

 

The last core not only made it to the finals but also won back to back Presidents trophies so I'm kinda not surprised there are so many on the list.  I might quibble with their placement a little bit but so far there is nobody from that core on the list that I would not have in my top 50.  The funny thing is that I actually WANT to go for Petey, Boeser and Hughes because I think this list will look very different in 10 years.  I'm not allowed to predict the future in that way however haha.  So I gotta keep trying to make sure Butcher and Murzyn don't get forgotten lol

Figured - voting for Cooke is about the only monkey business going on at this point and I’m pleasantly surprised- and both  him and Cloutier have an argument to get in.  Before we started I had Aucoin dead last (50) he was becoming quite a player for us near the end and suffered through all the heartbreak going on with Messier and post 94 but was a good solider nonetheless.  Went on and had a very solid career as a two-way guy - was 6th in Norris voting one year in NYI soon after tying the all-time PP goals for us and proved it wasn’t a fluke for sure..his all time stats are very close to Jovocops - with and they re-united in PHX for awhile.  Not as long or great a tenure as Murzyn ... but worth noting and in a few years he won’t make the cut.   BB, QH, EP and maybe Miller could be prominent players in a re-do in 6-10 years - Marksrom too and maybe even JV or Hogs or Podz too or TT who knows.   I expect this will be the last time I’d have Murzyn in the top 50 (and I do have EP in now)...Still Butcher, Ververgaert, McCarthy, Lanz, Oddliefson and a few others waiting to get in...and of course Tanev..Hamhuis has a good case for nominations as well.   Have a hard time with Hansen before quite a few of these guys and do believe that’s a recent bias for sure.   Take Gelinas for example - a big part of our 94 run scored 5 goals and had 13 points - then later when we had both Bure and Mogilny led the team in scoring and had two 30 and then 35 goal seasons for us in the start of the dead puck era.   Gretzky listed him as one of the players he was looking forward to playing with in his book - part of the “kid line” fast and skilled etc. Only played five years but as far as quality of middle six forwards goes Hansen and Cooke couldn’t touch him...well he was a second liner eventually ... 309 goals and 660 points is a very good career .   Momesso too IMO (which is a drum I’ve beaten quite a bit).    Of course longevity matters...so whys Butcher not on the list before Hansen too?  Top four D for us for a decade trumps 3/4th liners unless there are very special circumstances (Gino).  Especially when intangibles are considered.   Anyways like I said I’m pleasantly surprised there is enough on this site making good cases and so far the list is maybe a little out of whack but at least the nominations have been very solid for the most part - just time to get these guys in. 

[rychicken]

Vote Larionov

Nominate Sedlbauer

Edited April 30, 2020 by rychicken
can't type worth &^% today

[IBatch]

Just a reminder - a couple of these guys aren’t in yet.   

[Kevin Biestra]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Just a reminder - a couple of these guys aren’t in yet.   

 

There are actually a lot of good players and Canucks picks / development on that page.

 

John Garrett actually got the Nordiques into the 1982 Stanley Cup Semifinal the year King Richard took us all the way to the final.  After John Garrett surprised everyone with a clutch series against the Bruins in the second round, the Nordiques didn't play him again in the playoffs and got swept the next round by the Islanders.  Not that it was Dan Bouchard's fault - he was a good goalie.

 

 

 

 

Michel Petit...  Some fine Canucks drafting.  Made his mark elsewhere like Mike Rogers, Rick Vaive, Dirk Graham, Bill Derlago and Murray Bannerman...and another guy on that page Cam Neely.  And Daigneault.  But the Canucks made a lot of solid picks back then.

 

 

Peter McNab and Al MacAdam were two very fine players we had for a cup of coffee at the end of their careers.

 

 

And looks like Canucks scouting was also way ahead of the curve on Taylor Hall.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

There are actually a lot of good players and Canucks picks / development on that page.

 

John Garrett actually got the Nordiques into the 1982 Stanley Cup Semifinal the year King Richard took us all the way to the final.  After John Garrett surprised everyone with a clutch series against the Bruins in the second round, the Nordiques didn't play him again in the playoffs and got swept the next round by the Islanders.  Not that it was Dan Bouchard's fault - he was a good goalie.

 

 

 

 

Michel Petit...  Some fine Canucks drafting.  Made his mark elsewhere like Mike Rogers, Rick Vaive, Dirk Graham, Bill Derlago and Murray Bannerman...and another guy on that page Cam Neely.  And Daigneault.  But the Canucks made a lot of solid picks back then.

 

 

And looks like Canucks scouting was also way ahead of the curve on Taylor Hall.

The check marks are for who got a point during the game ... and we played the Oilers.   Note the check for The King ... a rare win against those guys 

Edited April 30, 2020 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, IBatch said:

The check marks are for who got a point during the game ... and we played the Oilers. 

 

Wow, that Brodeur - Caprice line was surprisingly effective.

[IBatch]

Just now, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Wow, that Brodeur - Caprice line was surprisingly effective.

Saw your Taylor Hall quip.  How’s this for foreshadowing... ugh 

[Kevin Biestra]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Saw your Taylor Hall quip.  How’s this for foreshadowing... ugh 

 

Messier coming back from the future like John Titor just to laugh at the Canucks one more time.

 

What a low quality photo reproduction method though...it makes it look like he has hair.

[Kevin Biestra]

And Mark Kirton rocking that studdly Mike Bossy / Wayne Gretzky perm...

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Coconuts]

5 hours ago, Baratheon said:

Romanticizing the past is also a problem that has come up in the list.  There are only 2 active Canucks voted in right now (looks like a 3rd is coming)

Make a case for Larionov.  He played 3 seasons for us and got over 50 points and 20 goals once during that time.  

 

Elias Pettersson hasn't even been nominated yet he has arguably been more impressive in his 2 years than Igor in 3.

I've noticed that too, particularly after the top 15. After that it began to swing all over the place, and it's pretty hard to argue recency bias against those top fifteen. 

 

I feel it makes for a good list. We've clearly got some diehards who were watching Canucks hockey in their earlier years along with younger fans who caught on closer to late 90's/2000's. If anything I'd argue this list has done a solid job at honoring those who played before the 2000's era, things have gotten much murkier as we've gotten further down the list and the reality is we can't fit everyone in the top 50. 

 

Sports fans tend to have soft spots for players who played closer to the beginning of their fandom, nostalgia and sentiment factor in. 

[Wilbur]

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I've noticed that too, particularly after the top 15. After that it began to swing all over the place, and it's pretty hard to argue recency bias against those top fifteen. 

 

I feel it makes for a good list. We've clearly got some diehards who were watching Canucks hockey in their earlier years along with younger fans who caught on closer to late 90's/2000's. If anything I'd argue this list has done a solid job at honoring those who played before the 2000's era, things have gotten much murkier as we've gotten further down the list and the reality is we can't fit everyone in the top 50. 

 

Sports fans tend to have soft spots for players who played closer to the beginning of their fandom, nostalgia and sentiment factor in. 

For me, it's about what players have done for the franchise in total, which is probably why I weight current players a little less, because they haven't had the chance to do it yet.  I've been weighing Games Played pretty heavily.  

 

Although I see myself getting on the Elias Pettersson nomination train soon as this franchise has only had the two Calder trophy winners (hopefully soon to be 3).