Journalist Gloats Over Jordan Peterson's Troubles

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I've watched a few JP videos since the start of this thread.

 

I will watch more but one thing I noticed is he seems bitter and angry a lot. I wasn't expecting that. I would have thought a  guy with his intelligence and conviction would come off a bit calmer. 

In the 13 min vid above...about 45 seconds in he is already snarling at the fictional poor people he is describing "haven't done any thing productive with even a second in their life"

Then he claims these lazy,miserable, low life people after some manipulation by communist intellectuals and 6, no 10, no 20 cups of Mead became organised and productive in a very evil sense and headed out to their wealthy neighbours and raped their daughters. This might have been the case, but as he is trying to draw parallels to the modern day it seems...well, does he try to stoke fear?

Again, I'll watch more and try to hear what he is saying through his emotions. 

because its a powerful motivator. The question is, what is he trying to motivate you to do? 

[Red Light Racicot]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:01 AM, BoKnows said:

I'm just curious to what exactly we should push back on, Jordan Peterson says a lot of stuff.

His take on socialism is unbelievable and unbelievably misinformed for one thing. He insists, among the many other qualities he fallaciously ascribes to socialism, that socialism is based on resentment towards the rich, when it's most commonly summed up as a critique of capitalism.

 

But thats just what he does.

 

Peterson is all to often either being dishonest or laughably misinterpretive when it comes to the conclusions he reaches, and this phenomenon is no better demonstrated when he concluded socialism was evil via his reading of Orwell, when Orwell was in fact a particularly enthusiastic socialist himself.

 

This "Cultural Marxism" he likes to rail about in a wobbly and uncontrollable spastic fit is a direct descendant of what the Nazis called "Cultural Bolshevism" Its ironic because that is the kind of thinking that has the potential to doom our civilization, not this "socialism" he paints without nuance as on par with Stalinism or whatever, along with all its nefarious perpetrators that don't seem to actually exist.

 

Considering how willing your typical Peterson supporter is to believe what he says without question, I think this is a problem.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Red Light Racicot

[BoKnows]

25 minutes ago, Red Light Racicot said:

His take on socialism is unbelievable and unbelievably misinformed for one thing. He insists, among the many other qualities he fallaciously ascribes to socialism, that socialism is based on resentment towards the rich, when it's most commonly summed up as a critique of capitalism.

 

But thats just what he does.

 

Peterson is all to often either being dishonest or laughably misinterpretive when it comes to the conclusions he reaches, and this phenomenon is no better demonstrated when he concluded socialism was evil via his reading of Orwell, when Orwell was in fact a particularly enthusiastic socialist himself.

 

This "Cultural Marxism" he likes to rail about in a wobbly and uncontrollable spastic fit is a direct descendant of what the Nazis called "Cultural Bolshevism" Its ironic because that is the kind of thinking that has the potential to doom our civilization, not this "socialism" he paints without nuance as on par with Stalinism or whatever, along with all its nefarious perpetrators that don't seem to actually exist, of whom he speaks as if they should all be put to death.

 

Considering how willing your typical Peterson supporter is to believe what he says without question, I think this is a problem.

Given recent social trends amongst the youth (eat the rich) it's a fair criticism.  It might not be what Marx meant, but it's what a lot of youth are practising today.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he was reading 1984 (correct me if I'm wrong).  1984 is obviously about an authoritarian state, and in history we've seen totalitarian governments use a communism/socialism as their economic system.  It doesn't matter if Orwell was a socialist or not, it's totally possible to connect his work to the shortcoming we've seen under socialism.

 

I don't know what you mean by Stalinism and it's nefarious perpetrators that don't exist.

 

You can say that about literally anything when it comes to political media, that's a bi-partisan issue.

 

Considering how willing your typical Trump supporter is to believe what he says without question, I think this is a problem.

Considering how willing your typical Obama supporter is to believe what he says without question, I think this is a problem.

Considering how willing your typical Hasan Piker supporter is to believe what he says without question, I think this is a problem.

 

Perhaps, Peterson isn't the problem but it's everyone else who doesn't think critically about these sort of issues.

[BoKnows]

4 hours ago, Robert Long said:

because its a powerful motivator. The question is, what is he trying to motivate you to do? 

Accountability.

 

Personally, he motives me to keep myself accountable.  Not blame my problems on other people/things other than myself.  Instead of saying "That professor couldn't teach his class properly and that's why I failed", I think "Did I try to ask for help?  What did I do to understand this topic better?  How can I do better next time?"

 

Also, how no one is going to achieve your goals for you.  Everyone has their own problems, and sure someone might offer a helping hand here and there you shouldn't rely on other people to get you from point A to B.

 

I know it's probably not the answer you're looking for, considering I took it out of context.  That's the main idea I get from JP.  Maybe it's possible to tie what I mentioned above to being against communism, and socialism.  Like you said though, there aren't too many communist around.

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, BoKnows said:

Accountability.

 

Personally, he motives me to keep myself accountable.  Not blame my problems on other people/things other than myself.  Instead of saying "That professor couldn't teach his class properly and that's why I failed", I think "Did I try to ask for help?  What did I do to understand this topic better?  How can I do better next time?"

 

Also, how no one is going to achieve your goals for you.  Everyone has their own problems, and sure someone might offer a helping hand here and there you shouldn't rely on other people to get you from point A to B.

 

I know it's probably not the answer you're looking for, considering I took it out of context.  That's the main idea I get from JP.  Maybe it's possible to tie what I mentioned above to being against communism, and socialism.  Like you said though, there aren't too many communist around.

That sounds like that wuss Jock Willink and his Extreme Ownership BS.

 

 

Kidding, don't tell him I said that. 

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

That sounds like that wuss Jock Willink and his Extreme Ownership BS.

 

 

Kidding, don't tell him I said that. 

I would hate to be one of his daughter's boyfriends.

[BoKnows]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

That sounds like that wuss Jock Willink and his Extreme Ownership BS.

 

 

Kidding, don't tell him I said that. 

That’s the kinda stuff I’m into, this is basically why I consider myself con even though I’m lib on everything else.  I’ve came to realize I’m a lib in denial 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, BoKnows said:

Accountability.

 

Personally, he motives me to keep myself accountable.  Not blame my problems on other people/things other than myself.  Instead of saying "That professor couldn't teach his class properly and that's why I failed", I think "Did I try to ask for help?  What did I do to understand this topic better?  How can I do better next time?"

 

Also, how no one is going to achieve your goals for you.  Everyone has their own problems, and sure someone might offer a helping hand here and there you shouldn't rely on other people to get you from point A to B.

 

I know it's probably not the answer you're looking for, considering I took it out of context.  That's the main idea I get from JP.  Maybe it's possible to tie what I mentioned above to being against communism, and socialism.  Like you said though, there aren't too many communist around.

And thats terrific, I'm glad you can get that from him. My issue is,why does he feel the need to attack people as well? 

[BoKnows]

4 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

And thats terrific, I'm glad you can get that from him. My issue is,why does he feel the need to attack people as well? 

I never thought about that.  I'm assuming you mean people's ideologies/groups of people and not specific people.

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

I never thought about that.  I'm assuming you mean people's ideologies/groups of people and not specific people.

he goes after some members of the lgbtq+ community pretty hard, e.g. As well as some individual researchers. 

 

I don't care if he wants to be Jordan Peterson, Inc. More power to him, but I dislike some of the things he does to get his name out there. 

[BoKnows]

1 minute ago, Robert Long said:

he goes after some members of the lgbtq+ community pretty hard, e.g. As well as some individual researchers. 

 

I don't care if he wants to be Jordan Peterson, Inc. More power to him, but I dislike some of the things he does to get his name out there. 

That's all fair criticism.

[Timbermen]

25 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

And thats terrific, I'm glad you can get that from him. My issue is,why does he feel the need to attack people as well? 

He's the one under attack usually, no? Thats what the op was about. 

Time and time again he explained his opposition to C-16, bigotry had nothing to do with it. It's a matter of free speech.

If you tell someone how to speak, you also tell them how to think. 

If you can't speak your mind because you may offend someone, then you lose your ability to think too.

 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

He's the one under attack usually, no? Thats what the op was about. 

Time and time again he explained his opposition to C-16, bigotry had nothing to do with it. It's a matter of free speech.

If you tell someone how to speak, you also tell them how to think. 

If you can't speak your mind because you may offend someone, then you lose your ability to think too.

 

no, he also initiates, promotes and welcomes the attacks. Its how he gets so much attention on youtube .e.g, 

 

And thats all fine - just don't ask me to feel sorry for him when others use the same techniques on him. 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Robert Long

[Timbermen]

24 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

I never thought about that.  I'm assuming you mean people's ideologies/groups of people and not specific people.

Very insightful post, Bo. This is all about identity politics, the only people that continually put him on the spot in interviews, we've seen it time and time again.

[BoKnows]

I'm probably talking to myself here but iirc a while back someone said something about no social hierarchies or something along this lines.  I was in my first sports industry sales class today and I was already able to get an idea of the social hierarchy in that class based on who's the most influential.  At the top is obviously my professor, then his assistant, then the smart kids who controlled the convo, then the average kids who chimed in, then the quiet smart kids, then your average quiet student, then the kids who don't want to be there.  If you look around you'll start to notice thousands of random hierarchies.  Just some food for thought.

[JM_]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:32 PM, Timbermen said:

Very insightful post, Bo. This is all about identity politics, the only people that continually put him on the spot in interviews, we've seen it time and time again.

I get the impression you think identity politics is only a thing on the left. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, BoKnows said:

I'm probably talking to myself here but iirc a while back someone said something about no social hierarchies or something along this lines.  I was in my first sports industry sales class today and I was already able to get an idea of the social hierarchy in that class based on who's the most influential.  At the top is obviously my professor, then his assistant, then the smart kids who controlled the convo, then the average kids who chimed in, then the quiet smart kids, then your average quiet student, then the kids who don't want to be there.  If you look around you'll start to notice thousands of random hierarchies.  Just some food for thought.

there's advantages and disadvantages to each position in that hierarchy. If you're in the "D's get degrees" camp then you can sit back and let the smarties do all the yapping and go for the pass. If you need to be top of the class then you have competition. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

I get the impression you think identity politics is only a thing on the left. 

General Patton:  On being asked about what he'd do if faced with the Nazi's on one side & the Soviet's on the other "I'd split my army into two and attack in both directions".  Though in reality Patton WAS really darn slow on Ike's de-nazification edict after WWII.

Edited September 11, 2020 by NewbieCanuckFan

[BoKnows]

12 minutes ago, Robert Long said:

there's advantages and disadvantages to each position in that hierarchy. If you're in the "D's get degrees" camp then you can sit back and let the smarties do all the yapping and go for the pass. If you need to be top of the class then you have competition. 

Yup that’s very true.  I feel like I can create 100 different hierarchies for that class alone, influential, smart, confident, etc.  It’s a really weird concept when you start to think about it.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, BoKnows said:

Yup that’s very true.  I feel like I can create 100 different hierarchies for that class alone, influential, smart, confident, etc.  It’s a really weird concept when you start to think about it.

in some management courses they call this "frameworks" - it helps sometimes to try to understand and view things from another persons framework. Helps middle managers to not go crazy.