[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[DeNiro]

Just now, Millerdraft said:

Very true.  They drafted Kucherov, Hedman, Palat, Johnson, etc.  Their scouts do a great job of that and have been doing it with mid round finds.  

Yep, it all comes down to drafting.

 

They keep getting great young players, and then when they need cap room they dump one of them for more picks and prospects.

 

Its a position I hope the Canucks will be in in the next few years.

[theo5789]

58 minutes ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

apparently Canucks and the Bruins are the only teams he's willing to waive for. 

If this is true, it feels very much like the Kesler situation when he pretty much have us only Chicago and Anaheim as the only options with Chicago not really having the cap space to make it work. It would suck if Boston got him at a relatively cheap price simply because there was no market. Vancouver has to be playing this to make sure Boston doesn't land him for cheap if we don't find a way to lock him down ourselves.

[Millerdraft]

9 minutes ago, CanuckFan1123 said:

I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume a 28 year old Horvat will start declining. I think Horvat more realistically has 6-8 years before his game will start to slow down. A lot of players, especially forwards, play well into their early 30s before slowing down. I think the real question surrounding Horvat is can we get him wingers that he can play at an elite level with. Horvat has been an awesome player for us but there’s just never any consistency with our 2nd line. He doesn’t seem to flow that great with Boeser and we didn’t see enough of him and Toffoli to really know if they can do good things over a full year. Pearson is an ok line mate for him but also very inconsistent. The real question is will he have good chemistry with Hoglander or Podkolzin? Or both. That’s my concern with Horvat. We know Miller and Petey are great together. Brock fits well on their wing most of the time. Toffoli certainly showed flashes. I worry that the way Horvat plays is just not beneficial for a lot of other top 6 forwards. 

The problem is that Horvat will be an UFA coming of multiple 60pt seasons, will have no shortage of interested parties and therefore his contract negotiating leverage will be high.  We need to maximize the years where he’s being “underpaid” for his production not when he’s making market value or above.

[Pickly]

5 minutes ago, hudsonkid said:

Oilers will have trouble assembling a team that can win the cup when they spend so much on one player. Not too tough to comprehend. But off topic so no more of that.

The oilers have struggled to win a cup because they cannot draft worth a damn given every opportunity in the world. They were gifted with the two best offensive players in the league and have failed to support them with a competent supporting case to help them succeed. 

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Robert Long said:

Out:

Sutter 4.375

Loui in Utica 1.075

 

In:

OEL 8.25

 

+2.8 mil in. Its very doable. 

Plus I expect us to be giving more in return, most likely Virtanen which would've cost us about 2.5-3 to re-sign also as "savings". But with that said, if we add a couple of cheap players, we would still be about +2 over. Hopefully they would want Benn as well as a short term replacement on LD.

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Pickly said:

Sounds like Arizona is trying to play hardball when the ball isn’t even in their court. Fact remains Ekman-Larsson steers the ship considering his NMC. If he really only  wants to go to two teams, the ball remains in Jims court. Currently the Canucks have two legitimate top 4 defenceman and a fringe top four in Myers. Top pairing defenceman are like gold in today’s NHL and are extremely hard to come by. Hughes himself cannot guide this team to a championship and the likes of Juolevi, Rathbone, and Rafferty are complete unknowns. Sometimes rolling the dice pays off. Sometimes it doesn’t. However, Hughes is not ready to be a stalwart back there to eat minutes and be that guy to be a horse. He’s a beautiful player who plays a sexy game but can he be that minute muncher like a Doughty, Pietrangelo, or Carlson? Given his style of play and physical makeup I doubt it. He needs help. Benning wants to win and wants to win sooner than later. Defence is this teams Achilles heal and it needs to be addressed ASAP or else this team

could very well end up like Toronto. It could backfire I know, but IMO it’s a risk worth taking. 

How are we in danger of becoming Toronto when we have 3 top 4 defensemen as opposed to their one in Muzzin, plus an entire group in the AHL that's better than the trash the Laffs call a D group?  They have literally one NHL quality defenseman.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Pickly said:

The oilers have struggled to win a cup because they cannot draft worth a damn given every opportunity in the world. They were gifted with the two best offensive players in the league and have failed to support them with a competent supporting case to help them succeed. 

Looking forward to seeing what happens when McDiver throws another one of is tantrums and demands a trade to an NHL team.

[hudsonkid]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Looking forward to seeing what happens when McDiver throws another one of is tantrums and demands a trade to an NHL team.

McDiveid

Edited October 2, 2020 by hudsonkid

[Odjick the Warrior]

24 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

 

anybody hear what Arizona is asking for?

because they are kind of over a barrel with only a few teams interested and less with cap room. The Coyotes would have to take back either LE or Sutter in this deal for cap numbers to work. 

[Pickly]

Just now, King Heffy said:

How are we in danger of becoming Toronto when we have 3 top 4 defensemen as opposed to their one in Muzzin, plus an entire group in the AHL that's better than the trash the Laffs call a D group?  They have literally one NHL quality defenseman.

We have Hughes and Edler who has one year left. Tanev is a UFA who might be gone. Myers looks like a top 3 one night and a bottom pairing the next. Reilly is a damn good player who has defensive flaws ala Hughes. Muzzin is a sound top 4 on any team. So no, I’m not far off. 

[Pickly]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Looking forward to seeing what happens when McDiver throws another one of is tantrums and demands a trade to an NHL team.

I laugh at comments like this. Same things were said about “Crysby.” Guy is an all

world talent who was loyal enough to sign a decade long contract to stay with a struggling team in a bad city. Mcdavid is a class act. There is no denying this. 

[Devron]

15 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

I don't think the hate is towards him as a player though. It more towards his contract and the potential return.

 

We saw the comparable numbers though of Edler and OEL (despite Edler being older and a history of a bad back). If Edler is a "2 or 3", then is OEL worth paying him that contract? If so, then is Edler being massively underpaid? Another feather in Edler's cap of his value to us over these years?

 

Like I suggested, it's still in the realm of possibility that OJ could get groomed into Edler's role.

Yeah I think Joulevi is going to play personally. Little worried about the injuries but like I said I like the player and was excited to see him play.

 

Having said that players like OEL don’t just fall off trees and certainly not in that defence position so if the deals right. I’d rather have 2 Edlers then 1 and the defence has to be upgraded period. As much as I can try and wait for our guys to become Top 4 Dman. I don’t think the franchise can wait. Not with the forward group we now have. Our defence has serious issues. In a perfect world I’d like see what we got with the young guys this season then make a bigger decision next year. But maybe next year we don’t see a OEL available 

 

I just want to see a contract go the other way. And as long as the price isn’t too steep you do it imo. If we are one of two teams a trade can happen with there’s no reason to over pay. Make a trade or walk away 

 

[Odjick the Warrior]

1 minute ago, Pickly said:

We have Hughes and Edler who has one year left. Tanev is a UFA who might be gone. Myers looks like a top 3 one night and a bottom pairing the next. Reilly is a damn good player who has defensive flaws ala Hughes. Muzzin is a sound top 4 on any team. So no, I’m not far off. 

The Canucks don't have $30 million on 3 forwards, that is why the Leafs d is so bad. Hughes is better then any d on the Leafs and Muzzin and Edler cancel each other out and Myers is a borderline 4/5 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Pickly said:

We have Hughes and Edler who has one year left. Tanev is a UFA who might be gone. Myers looks like a top 3 one night and a bottom pairing the next. Reilly is a damn good player who has defensive flaws ala Hughes. Muzzin is a sound top 4 on any team. So no, I’m not far off. 

Rielly's defensive flaws are so extreme he's a huge liability out there.  He has proven to be either unwilling on unable to play like an NHLer in his own zone.

[JeremyCuddles]

7 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

How are we in danger of becoming Toronto when we have 3 top 4 defensemen as opposed to their one in Muzzin, plus an entire group in the AHL that's better than the trash the Laffs call a D group?  They have literally one NHL quality defenseman.

Rielly and Muzzin is two.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Rielly and Muzzin is two.

Rielly would have to learn how to actually play defense to be a legit NHLer.  He's worse than Larsen and Pouliot in his own zone.

Edited October 2, 2020 by King Heffy

[Pickly]

5 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

The Canucks don't have $30 million on 3 forwards, that is why the Leafs d is so bad. Hughes is better then any d on the Leafs and Muzzin and Edler cancel each other out and Myers is a borderline 4/5 

I’m not denying that the Canucks don’t have 30 million tied up in forwards. What I am saying is the Leafs emphasized putting money in the top six rather than bolstering the back end. Hughes has been a godsend and an absolute steal however he cannot do it alone. Outside of him and Myers the Canucks have zero long term commitment to defenceman which I believe is crucial to winning. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Pickly

[theo5789]

2 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Yeah I think Joulevi is going to play personally. Little worried about the injuries but like I said I like the player and was excited to see him play.

 

Having said that players like OEL don’t just fall off trees and certainly not in that defence position so if the deals right. I’d rather have 2 Edlers then 1 and the defence has to be upgraded period. As much as I can try and wait for our guys to become Top 4 Dman. I don’t think the franchise can wait. Not with the forward group we now have. Our defence has serious issues. In a perfect world I’d like see what we got with the young guys this season then make a bigger decision next year. But maybe next year we don’t see a OEL available 

 

I just want to see a contract go the other way. And as long as the price isn’t too steep you do it imo. If we are one of two teams a trade can happen with there’s no reason to over pay. Make a trade or walk away 

 

If we get OEL, great if we can make it work. All I'm saying is we have had Edler right in front of us all these years and many have dumped on him and he is very comparable to OEL despite a bad back affecting him for years. We should be appreciating what we have had in Edler.

 

I think the major concern is whether OEL is worth the amount of cap space that he would take up when EP and QH are due for raises soon. OEL is a good player, but we have to be cognizant of how it affects our cap long term since he's got 7 more years that we need to manage.

[kloubek]

8 minutes ago, Pickly said:

The oilers have struggled to win a cup because they cannot draft worth a damn given every opportunity in the world. They were gifted with the two best offensive players in the league and have failed to support them with a competent supporting case to help them succeed. 

This. I want most Canadian teams to he successful. But with Edmonton, I watch in bliss (yes, like a sadist) to see how many years in a row they can f it up while given all the opportunity to turn it around. It's quite impressive, really.

[JeremyCuddles]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Rielly would have to learn how to actually play defense to be a legit NHLer.  He's worse than Larsen and Pouliot in his own zone.

50% ozone starts, 24 minutes a game, on ice save percentage above 90. His other defensive numbers appear to be similar to that of Edler. I dunno man. You really hate Rielly for some reason and it intrigues me.