Francesco Aquilini says "I have no plans to make changes."

[CanadianRugby]

On 2/14/2021 at 1:31 PM, canuck73_3 said:

Did the league hold us to 8 goals in 7 games or was that a red hot Tim Thomas? 

Red hot Tim Thomas and refs that work for Gregory.. I mean, Colin Campbell. 

[canuck73_3]

16 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Red hot Tim Thomas and refs that work for Gregory.. I mean, Colin Campbell. 

Penalties were 50-41 Boston. 

[CanadianRugby]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

Penalties were 50-41 Boston. 

A laughable number if you watched that series.  Even Brad Fenrence on the Spitting Chicklets podcast was laughing how the refs let them get away with what they wanted.  

 

Or how about Rome getting the longest suspension in finals history while Raymond had his back broken without a call.

This broken back was a no call either.  I'm sure that had nothing to do with Gregory's daddy being head of discipline.

Except Colin got busted for going after Boston's opponents.  Bruins brought their pocket refs that series.  

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Benning started from the worst position since Quinn.  Even Burke inherited some tradable assets.

Sportsnet just presented a graphic that shows, according to expected goals, Markstrom is the 2nd best goalie in the league.

Edited February 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[canuck73_3]

21 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

A laughable number if you watched that series.  Even Brad Fenrence on the Spitting Chicklets podcast was laughing how the refs let them get away with what they wanted.  

 

Or how about Rome getting the longest suspension in finals history while Raymond had his back broken without a call.

This broken back was a no call either.  I'm sure that had nothing to do with Gregory's daddy being head of discipline.

Except Colin got busted for going after Boston's opponents.  Bruins brought their pocket refs that series.  

Pacioretty hit was a bad result the trailing angle showed he was not “forced into the glass” and the hit started half way down the bench. 
 

Rome suspension was BS and Brian Burke was one of the advisors for that suspension. 

[The Lock]

28 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Sportsnet just presented a graphic that shows, according to expected goals, Markstrom is the 2nd best goalie in the league.

And how does that prove what Heffy said is wrong? Was Markstrom the 2nd best goalie when Benning started? Was Markstrom even considered to be better than Schneider at that time?

 

You can throw in a random fact about here and now but that's just cherry picking, especially when Heffy's talking about back then and not about the here and now.

Edited February 16, 2021 by The Lock

[CanadianRugby]

10 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Pacioretty hit was a bad result the trailing angle showed he was not “forced into the glass” and the hit started half way down the bench. 
 

Rome suspension was BS and Brian Burke was one of the advisors for that suspension. 

Where was the puck on the Pacioretty hit?  What about all the non calls on Boston?  The Campbell emails?  Raymond's broken back?  2011 was an inside job.  

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

Where was the puck on the Pacioretty hit?  What about all the non calls on Boston?  The Campbell emails?  Raymond's broken back?  2011 was an inside job.  

Chara initiated contact as Pacioretty reached for and touched the puck with his stick. Clean but unfortunate hit. 
 

Campbell is a piece of s***. 
 

There were non calls both ways and Vancouver had the PP advantage. Boston unfortunately had the goaltending advantage. 

[CanadianRugby]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Chara initiated contact as Pacioretty reached for and touched the puck with his stick. Clean but unfortunate hit. 
 

Campbell is a piece of s***. 
 

There were non calls both ways and Vancouver had the PP advantage. Boston unfortunately had the goaltending advantage. 

And the reffing advantage.

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

And the reffing advantage.

Excuses 

[kanucks25]

17 minutes ago, The Lock said:

And how does that prove what Heffy said is wrong? Was Markstrom the 2nd best goalie when Benning started? Was Markstrom even considered to be better than Schneider at that time?

Markstrom is one of the best goalies in the league and was inherited from Gillis. It's a simple fact.

 

Also, tell me who has Benning used as his top 2 D-men for like 90% of his tenure?

 

And who wears the C?

 

Just because Benning botched a bunch of trades and let good players walk for nothing doesn't mean he wasn't left with anything. Here's a list of assets that Benning inherited and what we have to show for it:

 

Tanev

Hamhuis

Bieksa

Kesler

Burrows

Hansen

Markstrom

Higgins

Garrison

6th overall pick

Sedins

Horvat

Edler

 

----------------------

 

Virtanen

Pearson

Sutter

Years of watching Sbisa and Gudbranson attempt to play defence that I'll never get back (not to mention the high 2nd round pick we had to package with McCann for Gudbranson's quality services)

Edited February 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Markstrom is one of the best goalies in the league and was inherited from Gillis. It's a simple fact.

 

Also, tell me who has Benning used as his top 2 D-men for like 90% of his tenure?

 

And who wears the C?

 

Just because Benning botched a bunch of trades and let good players walk for nothing doesn't mean he wasn't left with anything. Here's a list of assets that Benning inherited and what we have to show for it:

 

Tanev

Hamhuis

Bieksa

Kesler

Burrows

Hansen

Markstrom

Higgins

Garrison

6th overall pick

Sedins

Horvat

Edler

 

----------------------

 

Virtanen

Pearson

Sutter

Years of watching Sbisa and Gudbranson attempt to play defence that I'll never get back

 

 

How long did it take Markstrom to get to that point? Was it right away?

 

Also, how much of Gillis' team was actually Nonis' team? How much of Nonis' team was Burke's team? How much of Burke's team was Quinn's team? How much of any GM's team is the previous GM's team? It's a pretty even playing field if you look at things that way.

[kanucks25]

8 minutes ago, The Lock said:

How long did it take Markstrom to get to that point? Was it right away?

 

Also, how much of Gillis' team was actually Nonis' team? How much of Nonis' team was Burke's team? How much of Burke's team was Quinn's team? How much of any GM's team is the previous GM's team? It's a pretty even playing field if you look at things that way.

Why does any of this even matter? It's moving the goal posts.

 

When Benning took over the team Horvat had yet to play an NHL game but that doesn't mean he wasn't a quality asset.

Edited February 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[The Lock]

16 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Why does any of this even matter? It's moving the goal posts.

 

When Benning took over the team Horvat had yet to play an NHL game but that doesn't mean he wasn't a quality asset.

How is it moving the goalposts? 

 

You're presenting a Markstrom that took about 5 years to get from the Markstrom Benning inheirited to the Markstrom of today? All I'm doing is showing you how all GM's are left with at least something. You seem to want to assume that, because Benning was left with what, Markstrom and Horvat, that he was left with a lot. I'm simply proving how that's not the case when you compare this to around the league.

 

You say you're someone who likes results. Did you like the results of Markstrom back in 2017 or 2018? I'm curious. What was your opinion of him back then? What was your opinion of him behind Miller? What was your opinion of him when we let Miller go and he became the guy? Have you consistently had this opinion of Markstrom since day 1 when he had a 0.910 save percentage? Does a 0.910 save percentage indicate he's going to be the 2nd overall goalie in the league?

 

This is what I mean by context. You can bring whatever fact you want into an argument, but I have yet for you to bring up why this is even relevant aside from random Benning rants that I can get from some whoever on this forum.

 

Let's have an actual debate (although I have to go to bed here so tomorrow or whenever). I'm willing to listen and to keep an open mind. Are you?

Edited February 16, 2021 by The Lock

[kanucks25]

15 minutes ago, The Lock said:

How is it moving the goalposts? 

This is what I originally responded to:

 

3 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Benning started from the worst position since Quinn.  Even Burke inherited some tradable assets.

Perhaps my reading comprehension is off but this suggests that Benning didn't even inherit "some" tradeable assets.

 

So I posted something that proves that Markstrom is actually quite valuable, and would be considered an asset by pretty much anyone that watches hockey.

 

15 minutes ago, The Lock said:

You're presenting a Markstrom that took about 5 years to get from the Markstrom Benning inheirited to the Markstrom of today? All I'm doing is showing you how all GM's are left with at least something. You seem to want to assume that, because Benning was left with what, Markstrom and Horvat, that he was left with a lot. I'm simply proving how that's not the case when you compare this to around the league.

 

You say you're someone who likes results. Did you like the results of Markstrom back in 2017 or 2018? I'm curious. What was your opinion of him back then? What was your opinion of him behind Miller? What was your opinion of him when we let Miller go and he became the guy? Have you consistently had this opinion of Markstrom since day 1 when he had a 0.910 save percentage? Does a 0.910 save percentage indicate he's going to be the 2nd overall goalie in the league?

I don't really see how that matters. Not all assets a GM inherits are going to be at their peak value when he inherits them. Some assets are going to take some time to develop, that doesn't mean they weren't valuable before their development took place.

 

Benning not inheriting anything is just a fallacy conjured up by the apologists who need an excuse for why the rebuild is taking this long, and why we're supposed to wait 2 more seasons after waiting 6 to see where we are, and why the ELC years of all the young top-10 picks have been wasted.

Edited February 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[canuck73_3]

12 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

This is what I originally responded to:

 

Perhaps my reading comprehension is off but this suggests that Benning didn't even inherit "some" tradeable assets.

 

So I posted something that proves that Markstrom is actually quite valuable, and would be considered an asset by pretty much anyone that watches hockey.

 

I don't really see how that matters. Not all assets a GM inherits are going to be at their peak value when he inherits them. Some assets are going to take some time to develop, that doesn't mean they weren't valuable before their development took place.

 

Benning not inheriting anything is just a fallacy conjured up by the apologists who need an excuse for why the rebuild is taking this long, and why we're supposed to wait 2 more seasons after waiting 6 to see where we are, and why the ELC years of all the young top-10 picks have been wasted.

Benning literally inherited Bo and Markstrom as moveable assets and at their ages then they are the assets you need to hang on to. 

[The Lock]

26 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

This is what I originally responded to:

 

Perhaps my reading comprehension is off but this suggests that Benning didn't even inherit "some" tradeable assets.

 

So I posted something that proves that Markstrom is actually quite valuable, and would be considered an asset by pretty much anyone that watches hockey.

 

I don't really see how that matters. Not all assets a GM inherits are going to be at their peak value when he inherits them. Some assets are going to take some time to develop, that doesn't mean they weren't valuable before their development took place.

 

Benning not inheriting anything is just a fallacy conjured up by the apologists who need an excuse for why the rebuild is taking this long, and why we're supposed to wait 2 more seasons after waiting 6 to see where we are, and why the ELC years of all the young top-10 picks have been wasted.

First of all, he said "worst position since Quinn". That doesn't mean that Benning didn't inheirit "some" tradable assets unless if Quinn had nothing. If Quinn had nothing, perhaps you can enlighten. I'd genuinely be curious.

 

It matters because Markstrom's trade value now is higher than it was back then. Remember that Markstrom was traded with Matthias for Luongo, who requested a trade (so immediately that's a hit on what would have got for Luongo) and Anthony (who really was a body going the other way more than anything else). Markstrom's value now could also be considered Luougo's value back then (if Luongo had not requested a trade). Markstrom's value has risen since Benning inheirited him.

 

The same could be said with Horvat. Remember than when Benning came in, Horvat hadn't even played a game yet. He had a season with the London Knights after being drafted. There was hope he'd be good, but there were also people who really wanted Nishchuskin as well as people who were upset over the trading of Schneider. Horvat was rumoured to be worth around the 16th overall pick. We picked him 9th. Obviously a good draft pick in the end given he has the "C" as you've mentioned, but we had no way of really knowing he'd become that at the time. Even in his first year, he showed promise with the faceoff circle giving him a niche on the team, but he still was a bit of an x factor.

 

Trade value's often weird as a lot of the time a pick can be pretty valuable. Then as soon as that pick is chosen, the value drops a bit since the ability to select someone is gone. Then it's up to the player's performance to determine the value after that.

 

This obviously all falls in line with what you've said regarding assets not going to be at peak value, but that also means what he's inheirited has also increased in value since. This could have gone the other way. They could have also decreased in value. For example, I have doubts Tryamkin (and yes, he wasn't inheirited, he was drafted by Benning) would get us much now mostly given his situation, but when he started playing in the league, I bet you he had a pretty good value when he was showing promise. Gaunce had some value at one point that Benning inheirited. Not a lot of value, but still some value. Shinakaruk probably has no value now but we got Baertchshi out of it.

 

It's not about not inheiriting anything. It's about how much has Benning inheirited compared with what we should expect from that as well as compared with what other GM's have done with what they've inheirited.

 

You obviously are upset with how long things have taken. Let me ask you this: if we did fire Benning and hired someone else. What moves would you want that GM to make? What in your mind would make us better? Do you want a full regutting again? Do you want certain pieces added? What is it that you want?

 

(and now seriously to bed lol)

Edited February 16, 2021 by The Lock

[Timråfan]

3 hours ago, The Lock said:

How is it moving the goalposts? 

 

You're presenting a Markstrom that took about 5 years to get from the Markstrom Benning inheirited to the Markstrom of today? All I'm doing is showing you how all GM's are left with at least something. You seem to want to assume that, because Benning was left with what, Markstrom and Horvat, that he was left with a lot. I'm simply proving how that's not the case when you compare this to around the league.

 

You say you're someone who likes results. Did you like the results of Markstrom back in 2017 or 2018? I'm curious. What was your opinion of him back then? What was your opinion of him behind Miller? What was your opinion of him when we let Miller go and he became the guy? Have you consistently had this opinion of Markstrom since day 1 when he had a 0.910 save percentage? Does a 0.910 save percentage indicate he's going to be the 2nd overall goalie in the league?

 

This is what I mean by context. You can bring whatever fact you want into an argument, but I have yet for you to bring up why this is even relevant aside from random Benning rants that I can get from some whoever on this forum.

 

Let's have an actual debate (although I have to go to bed here so tomorrow or whenever). I'm willing to listen and to keep an open mind. Are you?

Marky has the same statistics since he started over 30 games per season for the Canucks. 

He is maybe the reason why  Green is coach now because Utica came to the finals Calder Cup, because of Marky.

So if you count Markys AHL season it is close to 6 season he's been really good. 

 

Tell me again, what players have played defence in front of Marky during those 6 years?

If you look at goalies like Holtby they got a great team in front of them when they did good. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Timråfan

[EastVanCanuck]

14 hours ago, dank.sinatra said:

Ok that's cool you can like and support Jim all you want. I don't care.

 

I'm just asking for some valid reasons for that support.

 

Also calling out the media is insanely stupid. Those guys literally live and breathe Canucks. They know a lot more than you do and report it accurately. I'm sorry if some of it upsets you but that doesn't mean it's not true.

 

Again, very Trump supporter like from the Benning Bros.

 

Lol now I know you are a no mind to believe media in Vancouver report things accurately.  Go back under your bridge.  

[Ghostsof1915]

The real point is even if the GM and coach was canned. What then?

Unless the coach can turn the players around, this season is at best up in the air.

The new GM is going to want to evaluate the talent the team has. 

So you won't get instant gratification. Changes won't happen basically until the offseason.

So how is that going to help anything right now?