Moves Benning should be aggressive on (Proposals/Discussion) Revised!

[Bertuzzipunch]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I like pickle-man, but yup, thats looking pretty horrid. 

I mean JB has done a lot of bad signings but nothing compares to SJ.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

No one would likely want to be in Buffalo though, they'd go for the $ and thats it. 

 

Of course Cozens is going to say that, he's just a kid and I'm sure his agent doesn't want the constant swirl of speculation that would follow if Cozens hinted at wanting to be somewhere else. 

That's how i feel too.  Even Eichel kept up the charade for quite awhile and he's American.   Cozens is a prize.   I do wonder if Eichel would be satiated bringing in another US player like Miller plus maybe Rathbone (and let's be serious, a LHD composed of OJ, QHs and Rathbone is going to get abused badly).    Maybe it's not enough to sort their roster happiness level out - but like i said i'd do that trade in a second - and also Buffalo hands are completely tied to that Skinner deal.    And Eichel.   Who can afford either really?  

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

That's how i feel too.  Even Eichel kept up the charade for quite awhile and he's American.   Cozens is a prize.   I do wonder if Eichel would be satiated bringing in another US player like Miller plus maybe Rathbone (and let's be serious, a LHD composed of OJ, QHs and Rathbone is going to get abused badly).    Maybe it's not enough to sort their roster happiness level out - but like i said i'd do that trade in a second - and also Buffalo hands are completely tied to that Skinner deal.    And Eichel.   Who can afford either really?  

Cozens would be great. I suspect they'd want to send us Middlestadt for Miller instead. Which would be a no-go for me. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

interestingly, they just had that opportunity with the new CBA and turned down compliance buyouts, didn't sound like there was an appetite at all for it on the players or owners side. 

 

SJS is really in some trouble with these contracts, they are not aging like wine. 

 

I wonder if they leave Burns unprotected? would Seattle take that on? Jones will be unprotected for sure. 

 

But if we're going to help out SJS, I want their 1st round pick. 

I don't think you are going to get the 1st...........but what you are getting is equivilent to 2X 2nds

 

Don't forget, you may use him as a back up, or trade him as such. His contract is $5,750,000 per year, but you are getting him for $2,875,000, which is pretty reasonable.

I would also question if his stats are a little bit of him and of his team. So he may not be as bad as advertised. Getting a back for $2,875,000 is not bad at all, especially when he has been a starter. There is so many ways to play this, once you have him, which may return some more assets.

 

1. keep him as our back up

2. buy him out

3. trade him

4. wave him

 

I think he is tradeable at that price, and may bring in another pick.

[IBatch]

55 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Cozens would be great. I suspect they'd want to send us Middlestadt for Miller instead. Which would be a no-go for me. 

Yep me too.  Can't do a pull-up how embarrassing. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

31 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I don't think you are going to get the 1st...........but what you are getting is equivilent to 2X 2nds

 

Don't forget, you may use him as a back up, or trade him as such. His contract is $5,750,000 per year, but you are getting him for $2,875,000, which is pretty reasonable.

I would also question if his stats are a little bit of him and of his team. So he may not be as bad as advertised. Getting a back for $2,875,000 is not bad at all, especially when he has been a starter. There is so many ways to play this, once you have him, which may return some more assets.

 

1. keep him as our back up

2. buy him out

3. trade him

4. wave him

 

I think he is tradeable at that price, and may bring in another pick.

Exactly , if you wanna be a smart GM and wanna be aggressive these are the type of deals you look for. 2.87 for our backup is totally fine. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

2 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Exactly , if you wanna be a smart GM and wanna be aggressive these are the type of deals you look for. 2.87 for our backup is totally fine. 

Exactly!

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

Exactly!

Janis we need more trade proposals and keep thinking outside the box because the obvious ones rarely happen.   I'd love to work the core younger with both Miller and Horvat as prime trade chips.   Doubt the fan base has the stomach for it but i do.   Been waiting 4 decades for a cup i could say five but i was in diapers in 73....so fix it.   How about Horvat and Rathbone for Cozens and Risto?  Or QHs, Miller,  our first for Cozens, Dahlin  and their first? 

[mll]

2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Exactly!

It's a higher cap hit for San Jose to trade him at 50% than to just buy him out.  The buyout cap hit for next season is only 1.9M vs retaining at 2.87M and giving up assets.  Year 3 would be 2.9M but the difference is mostly negligible to the retention.  Year 4 to 6 at 1.67M but they have some large contracts expiring then.  Would think they would prefer the buyout route when Wilson now talks of needing to get younger.  

 

[J.I.A.H.N]

29 minutes ago, mll said:

It's a higher cap hit for San Jose to trade him at 50% than to just buy him out.  The buyout cap hit for next season is only 1.9M vs retaining at 2.87M and giving up assets.  Year 3 would be 2.9M but the difference is mostly negligible to the retention.  Year 4 to 6 at 1.67M but they have some large contracts expiring then.  Would think they would prefer the buyout route when Wilson now talks of needing to get younger.  

 

I think in this silly world, people forget about real dollars

 

To keep him, San Jose spends $17,250,000 real dollars...never mind the cap hit

To buy him out themselves, costs San Jose $10,000,000 real dollars

To trade him at 50% retained costs them $8,625,000 real dollars

To trade him with no retention costs them zero real dollars and 2-1st rounders

 

So, IMO, the cost of 50% cap retention and a little of this and a little of that, is in their best interest. It is what I would do if it were my money. Those 2 firsts are way too expensive after the Ottawa trade. A flip of 2 spots is nothing, and the second is way cheaper than 2-1sts......

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by janisahockeynut

[mll]

6 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think in this silly world, people forget about real dollars

 

To keep him, San Jose spends $17,250,000 real dollars...never mind the cap hit

To buy him out themselves, costs San Jose $10,000,000 real dollars

To trade him at 50% retained costs them $8,625,000 real dollars

To trade him with no retention costs them zero real dollars and 2-1st rounders

 

So, IMO, the cost of 50% cap retention and a little of this and a little of that, is in their best interest. It is what I would do if it were my money. Those 2 firsts are way too expensive after the Ottawa trade. A flip of 2 spots is nothing, and the second is way cheaper than 2-1sts......

 

 

The difference between a buyout and retention is 1.4M.   Owners have lost considerable money - the buyout allows to spread the cost over a longer period of time when in the short term cash flow could still be an issue.

 

Not sure it's in the best interest of Vancouver either.  Buyout Holtby is a 500K cap hit in year 1 + 1.9M in year 2.  So next season goaltending would be 3.4M - saves roughly 1M in a season where they are not expected to be competitive.  But the season after it goes from 2.9M (Jones) + 1.9M (Holtby) = 4.8M for a backup goalie.  It also blocks DiPietro.  They can buy him out - but it's a cap cost or add an asset to trade him.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by mll

[JM_]

4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I don't think you are going to get the 1st...........but what you are getting is equivilent to 2X 2nds

 

Don't forget, you may use him as a back up, or trade him as such. His contract is $5,750,000 per year, but you are getting him for $2,875,000, which is pretty reasonable.

I would also question if his stats are a little bit of him and of his team. So he may not be as bad as advertised. Getting a back for $2,875,000 is not bad at all, especially when he has been a starter. There is so many ways to play this, once you have him, which may return some more assets.

 

1. keep him as our back up

2. buy him out

3. trade him

4. wave him

 

I think he is tradeable at that price, and may bring in another pick.

yeah at 50% it does make sense. They would nee to take Holtby back in the deal but I think they'd be happy to do that. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah at 50% it does make sense. They would nee to take Holtby back in the deal but I think they'd be happy to do that. 

Actually Holtby's total buyout is 2.4 mill and most of that comes in the second year .5 + 1.9.......I buyout Holtby if he does not get picked up, we have plenty of cap in the second year, and I have to say getting the small up graded pick and the 2nd rounder, is worth that. 

 

I am not saying Clarke would still be there, but you have a better chance of getting him at 7 then at 9, and quite honestly, if you can fill a #1 RHD spot for 2.4 Million over 12 years of Clarke playing, then I do it, as fast as I can, and that is what you are doing this on, just the chance.....and even if its not him, you get a larger selection at 7 than at 9, and that is good generally, never mind the 2nd rounder to a declining team(IMO)

 

I think this is a no brainer, and the arguments are very shallow. We spent alot more on alot less, in many of documented cases................this is a just do it trade.(IMHO)

 

Holtby is $4,300,000 this year and his replacement 2.4 Million the year after,,,and 2.4 the 3rd year = $9,100,000 for 3 years if kept

 

Jones at 50@ is $2,975,000 X 3 =$8,925,000 for 3 years

 

So, its just the difference of Holtby's cap hit, if we choose to go with Jones.....again, that is cheap

[BigTramFan]

11 hours ago, mll said:

The difference between a buyout and retention is 1.4M.   Owners have lost considerable money - the buyout allows to spread the cost over a longer period of time when in the short term cash flow could still be an issue.

Sorry I don't follow your numbers on the $1.4m difference...

 

If you are talking about actual salary, Jones is owed $15m over the next 3 years, so a trade with 50% retention costs SJS $7.5m in actual salary over 3 years.

 

A buy out will cost $10m over 6 years ($1.67m x 6).

 

So the difference in paid salary between a buy out and retention is $2.5m, correct?

[JM_]

13 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Actually Holtby's total buyout is 2.4 mill and most of that comes in the second year .5 + 1.9.......I buyout Holtby if he does not get picked up, we have plenty of cap in the second year, and I have to say getting the small up graded pick and the 2nd rounder, is worth that. 

 

I am not saying Clarke would still be there, but you have a better chance of getting him at 7 then at 9, and quite honestly, if you can fill a #1 RHD spot for 2.4 Million over 12 years of Clarke playing, then I do it, as fast as I can, and that is what you are doing this on, just the chance.....and even if its not him, you get a larger selection at 7 than at 9, and that is good generally, never mind the 2nd rounder to a declining team(IMO)

 

I think this is a no brainer, and the arguments are very shallow. We spent alot more on alot less, in many of documented cases................this is a just do it trade.(IMHO)

 

Holtby is $4,300,000 this year and his replacement 2.4 Million the year after,,,and 2.4 the 3rd year = $9,100,000 for 3 years if kept

 

Jones at 50@ is $2,975,000 X 3 =$8,925,000 for 3 years

 

So, its just the difference of Holtby's cap hit, if we choose to go with Jones.....again, that is cheap

you know Jan, I think your idea of trying to get more 2nd round picks is likely the best strategy for landing one, maybe two, more RHD prospects. How many are there, 4? between 40 and 60?

 

Almost every team needs RHD talent so my guess is unless we're picking 2nd and really like Clarke, he'll be gone by 9 and I think also by 7. 

 

But thats OK, I like a lot of the guys you're highlighted in the 2nd round and scooping up two of those would be nice. 

 

__

 

RE: Jones - if we keep Ian Clark, which looks likely now, he could likely do wonders with Jones as well. 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[MikeBossy]

5 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you know Jan, I think your idea of trying to get more 2nd round picks is likely the best strategy for landing one, maybe two, more RHD prospects. How many are there, 4? between 40 and 60?

 

Almost every team needs RHD talent so my guess is unless we're picking 2nd and really like Clarke, he'll be gone by 9 and I think also by 7. 

 

But thats OK, I like a lot of the guys you're highlighted in the 2nd round and scooping up two of those would be nice. 

 

__

 

RE: Jones - if we keep Ian Clark, which looks likely now, he could likely do wonders with Jones as well. 

 

 

Have to agree here - I think this might be where Benning could shine as his drafting has been good. I'd be happy if we could pick up an extra 2nd rounder - 2 would be stellar. Not sure how we get those though trade wise.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, MikeBossy said:

Have to agree here - I think this might be where Benning could shine as his drafting has been good. I'd be happy if we could pick up an extra 2nd rounder - 2 would be stellar. Not sure how we get those though trade wise.

I might get yelled at, but I was suggesting over in another thread that we move Lind for TO's 2nd and Liljegren. I think they'd go for that. 

[MikeBossy]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I might get yelled at, but I was suggesting over in another thread that we move Lind for TO's 2nd and Liljegren. I think they'd go for that. 

I am not opposed to that - really think there are some gems to be found in the 2nd round - especially RHD

 

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

I am not opposed to that - really think there are some gems to be found in the 2nd round - especially RHD

 

I'm basing it on how high Wickenheiser is on Lind, so I think there'd be an appetite for a deal like that given how cash strapped the Leafs will be next year. 

 

If we picked up at least one more 2nd rounder, it would make Jim moving this years 1st for someone like Reinhart more palatable since we could load up on 3 RHD prospects with the 2 2nd round picks and Liljegren. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Jimmy McGill

[JM_]

@janisahockeynut what do you think the chance of this is:

 

Loui, Juolevi, our 1st (asuming 9th oa) for Reinhart? 

 

I know Loui is a hard sell, but Buffalo is clearly headed for another couple of rebuild years so it won't matter to their cap anyway. Hell, he likely makes that team next year.