[PGT] Edmonton Oilers at Vancouver Canucks | Oct. 30, 2021

[stawns]

1 minute ago, RakuRaku said:

If we lose couple more, we gotta shake things up...  Call up Di Giuseppe and Klimovich!! Can't be any worse than Chiasson and Lammikko now.... 

I think both those players have been fine.  It's the top end of the roster that's been dismal, though they showed a bit of a pulse last night.

[TheRick]

Canucks PP

 

 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, RakuRaku said:

If we lose couple more, we gotta shake things up...  Call up Di Giuseppe and Klimovich!! Can't be any worse than Chiasson and Lammikko now.... 

The loses aren’t going to change to wins until Petey gets going.  We are pretty much playing evens with teams without Petey doing much.  Once he starts to score, then we will win.  He will start going soon.  Next game. 

[-DLC-]

22 minutes ago, stawns said:

They play a variation of the box +1 in their own end, though far more complex.  It's a way to keep the puck to the outside while being ready to jump on mistakes.  It's a very effective system for minimizing quality scoring chances, but it also requires bursts of intensity to capitalize on mistakes and this is where they fail at it, though they were much better last night.

For me though...."waiting" for the other team to make a mistake means you're letting them control the play and pace of the game.  It's very passive and "waiting" rather than "going after" stuff.  And by the time that one guy does have a burst and grabs the puck when a mistake is made, the other guys are gassed and we see a line change rather than a rush involving multiple players.  Or they're so far behind that it's a pause/wait/set up that allows the other team to "catch up".  It just doesn't seem to be a great plan to me?  I know all the "defense wins" stuff but no, it actually doesn't.  Because you have to score to win.  Playing to not get scored on doesn't really lend itself to that.

 

I'm still on board with this team...but trying to figure it out.  I'm with you Alf, and do think that once Petey gets going the team does.  But we can't rely on one guy....he was out for a long period and we have to be able to get scoring elsewhere too.

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

 

I've been a Green fan all along but the players look tentative and confused a lot of the time out there.  Are they being over coached by a guy scrambling to figure it out and increasingly on the fly?  I really am starting to feel like a change in coaching and a fresh perspective is the next step in trying to find a solution.  We've moved pieces in and out and the team should be better than they are.  This will start really messing with their mental game if they don't find some success somehow.  When you have the type of goaltending we do and players in place who've shown great potential but that's suddenly all diminished, it's suspect.  If players are taking a long time to figure out "a system", maybe it's the system not the players?  I really don't know because the x's and o's are beyond me...I don't pretend to have that part figured out.  But I'm not sure Green does either at this point.  You play 30+ other teams....do you use a one size fits all system against all of them?  That doesn't seem effective.

I've been a strong supporter of TG, but it's getting to critical mass.  I have no issues with his systems as they are pretty standard and tried and true effective with many teams.  However, something is off, there's a disconnect somewhere and I'm not sure where or how they fix it before it's too late.

 

I feel like there's a player or two who are subversive on this roster and undermining TG's authority and otter players confidence in his systems.  I think they can, and probably will, replace TG but I don't think the problem goes away........not in the long teem anyway

 

[spook007]

Petey is slowly starting to work in to shape and so I Brock...

If the ref had given Oilers a stone wall 2 min penalty for showing Brocks stick down the ice, it would like be a draw and OT instead... small margins, but that kind of missed pens are really frustrating. 

[-DLC-]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think both those players have been fine.  It's the top end of the roster that's been dismal, though they showed a bit of a pulse last night.

And it's a coaches job to help them figure out how to get going.

 

Petey's secret was out early and teams starting to focus on him.  So a coach has to help address that and get more creative.   You had a top line that was performing and now they're not...why is that?  If they're all "off" at the same time...it's certainly not lack of wanting to win and find success.  Or even work hard to get there.  So why?

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

For me though...."waiting" for the other team to make a mistake means you're letting them control the play and pace of the game.  It's very passive and "waiting" rather than "going after" stuff.  And by the time that one guy does have a burst and grabs the puck when a mistake is made, the other guys are gassed and we see a line change rather than a rush involving multiple players.  Or they're so far behind that it's a pause/wait/set up that allows the other team to "catch up".  It just doesn't seem to be a great plan to me?  I know all the "defense wins" stuff but no, it actually doesn't.  Because you have to score to win.  Playing to not get scored on doesn't really lend itself to that.

 

I'm still on board with this team...but trying to figure it out.  I'm with you Alf, and do think that once Petey gets going the team does.  But we can't rely on one guy....he was out for a long period and we have to be able to get scoring elsewhere too.

 

 

 

 

It's a safer system when you have a young roster because it relies on positional structure and prevents guys from running around in their own end.

 

Where they are failing is by not moving on mistakes or forcing the play at pressure points like the corners or tye points.......that's where you apply some pressure on the puck and try to force a mistake.  That, imo, comes with a young team not wanting to make a mistake and a team that doesn't have the level of trust in each other that veteran teams have after years of playing together.

 

When deployed properly it's a very effective system and has been used effectively for decades

 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

And it's a coaches job to help them figure out how to get going.

 

Petey's secret was out early and teams starting to focus on him.  So a coach has to help address that and get more creative.   You had a top line that was performing and now they're not...why is that?  If they're all "off" at the same time...it's certainly not lack of wanting to win and find success.  Or even work hard to get there.  So why?

It is, but it's on the players to execute.  A coach can practice night and day, but he can't go out there and play

[Gawdzukes]

43 minutes ago, stawns said:

I don't think that's the game Green is trying to get them to play, that's just how they're playing.  We saw more life last night and more battle, which is what TG wants from them.

I've got to agree 100%. It really is odd the rabbit hole some people go down in regards to being able to see coaching through the tv set. They go to great lengths to believe Green is teaching them backwards philosophies and peewee strategies while laying zero blame with the players themselves. It's been my sports experience that for the most part it's the players who are a step behind and certain players lack the dedication, not the other way around. It's like school, mostly it's the kids goofing off and not paying attention, not the teacher. I've also found most teams have a number of players that go through drills but come game time they don't listen to anyone else and do it their own way. Either way good players find a way to win and we're not doing that right now either. Only one thing left to do:

 

 

 

[rekker]

24 minutes ago, stawns said:

They play a variation of the box +1 in their own end, though far more complex.  It's a way to keep the puck to the outside while being ready to jump on mistakes.  It's a very effective system for minimizing quality scoring chances, but it also requires bursts of intensity to capitalize on mistakes and this is where they fail at it, though they were much better last night.

Yes last night was better. We've had what, three years of this and a month into this season, a little better doesn't cut it for me. Get ready for more of the same. I get the boxing players out and giving the opposition the outside. Most teams play this. But we fall apart on execution once the puck gets moved around. Kind of like the box on a PK. If you give it up to easily all hell breaks loose. Is this lack of execution by the players? It there is a bobble or bad pass the players should have dog on a bone mentality. The opposition should be pressed more. Maybe the wingers need to be more active. Don't know, other than the players seemed to have checked out. That's not good. Really would like to know Nate Schmidts take on it. 

[-DLC-]

12 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Petey is slowly starting to work in to shape and so I Brock...

If the ref had given Oilers a stone wall 2 min penalty for showing Brocks stick down the ice, it would like be a draw and OT instead... small margins, but that kind of missed pens are really frustrating. 

This is also huge.  People will say we're "whining" about officiating but it makes the difference.  The Oilers ONLY scored while on the PP and we didn't get one until the third.  I felt like the guys DID battle (not sure what some were watching) but Oilers were up two by then and had a bit of a cushion.

 

They let so many things go then randomly choose a penalty at will that gives another team the momentum.  The reffing does play a part for sure.

 

That "high stick" was ridiculous - Oilers have the drama down to a fine art.  The head snap, perfected.  "He came near me".  Yet Kassian's allowed to run guys into the boards all day long.  He's getting cocky because he gets away with stuff that a guy like Tyler Myers NEVER would.  It's so unbalanced.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, rekker said:

Yes last night was better. We've had what, three years of this and a month into this season, a little better doesn't cut it for me. Get ready for more of the same. I get the boxing players out and giving the opposition the outside. Most teams play this. But we fall apart on execution once the puck gets moved around. Kind of like the box on a PK. If you give it up to easily all hell breaks loose. Is this lack of execution by the players? It there is a bobble or bad pass the players should have dog on a bone mentality. The opposition should be pressed more. Maybe the wingers need to be more active. Don't know, other than the players seemed to have checked out. That's not good. Really would like to know Nate Schmidts take on it. 

It takes a lot longer than three years for a core to grow together and become a legit contender.  

[rekker]

21 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

 

I've been a Green fan all along but the players look tentative and confused a lot of the time out there.  Are they being over coached by a guy scrambling to figure it out and increasingly on the fly?  I really am starting to feel like a change in coaching and a fresh perspective is the next step in trying to find a solution.  We've moved pieces in and out and the team should be better than they are.  This will start really messing with their mental game if they don't find some success somehow.  When you have the type of goaltending we do and players in place who've shown great potential but that's suddenly all diminished, it's suspect.  If players are taking a long time to figure out "a system", maybe it's the system not the players?  I really don't know because the x's and o's are beyond me...I don't pretend to have that part figured out.  But I'm not sure Green does either at this point.  You play 30+ other teams....do you use a one size fits all system against all of them?  That doesn't seem effective.

 

I'm not hitting this panic button yet, but this would be the next logical move to me if we don't start winning some of these games.  

In my view, without a long explanation, Green overthinks it. Overthinks player deployment among other things. Chances are if he overthinks it, he overcoaches. Like you said, players seem confused by the message.

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I've got to agree 100%. It really is odd the rabbit hole some people go down in regards to being able to see coaching through the tv set. They go to great lengths to believe Green is teaching them backwards philosophies and peewee strategies while laying zero blame with the players themselves. It's been my sports experience that for the most part it's the players who are a step behind and certain players lack the dedication, not the other way around. It's like school, mostly it's the kids goofing off and not paying attention, not the teacher. I've also found most teams have a number of players that go through drills but come game time they don't listen to anyone else and do it their own way. Either way good players find a way to win and we're not doing that right now either. Only one thing left to do:

 

 

 

I do think TG is probably on his way out if they cant put it together in the next 10 games, but I think they'll have the same issues because I think there at least one toxic player in the lineup that subverts things.  I'd actually like to see them make a big trade to shake things up before moving Green.

 

That said, I'd be ok moving on from Green too, but because of his roster decisions and mismanagement of talented, young players and not his systems

[stawns]

Just now, rekker said:

In my view, without a long explanation, Green overthinks it. Overthinks player deployment among other things. Chances are if he overthinks it, he overcoaches. Like you said, players seem confused by the message.

I agree about deployment, but not about the confusion.......the systems are ones that players would have played with other teams over their careers.

[rekker]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

It takes a lot longer than three years for a core to grow together and become a legit contender.  

Contender? I would settle for a playoff appearance. Green et all have had enough years to rally this team into playoff consideration. If we are still playing this way after 8 to 10 more games do you not see a need to change coaching?

 

[Attila Umbrus]

10 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I just....hate him so much. So so so so much. Just picturing these stupid stupid words coming out of his stupid smug face makes me want to punch a small woodland creature over and over again. 

 

I just &^@#ing.......&^@#!!!!!!

…I’m calling PETA…lol

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, rekker said:

Yes last night was better. We've had what, three years of this and a month into this season, a little better doesn't cut it for me. Get ready for more of the same. I get the boxing players out and giving the opposition the outside. Most teams play this. But we fall apart on execution once the puck gets moved around. Kind of like the box on a PK. If you give it up to easily all hell breaks loose. Is this lack of execution by the players? It there is a bobble or bad pass the players should have dog on a bone mentality. The opposition should be pressed more. Maybe the wingers need to be more active. Don't know, other than the players seemed to have checked out. That's not good. Really would like to know Nate Schmidts take on it. 

Schmidt would tell the guys to take steroids.  I wonder if he’s back on his special juice?  

[-DLC-]

4 minutes ago, rekker said:

In my view, without a long explanation, Green overthinks it. Overthinks player deployment among other things. Chances are if he overthinks it, he overcoaches. Like you said, players seem confused by the message.

That's exactly what I feel is  happening.