[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Colorado Avalanche | Nov. 11, 2021

[wallstreetamigo]

Just now, N4ZZY said:

So you think it's a mismatch in terms of player personnel and coaching personnel? 

 

I mean the roster that Benning has composed should be doing better. They're definitely underperforming at the moment. 

 

I think it’s absolutely a coaching style to player style mismatch. 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Horvat got the C based on his heart and character IMO. 

He definitely has heart and character. I'm not questioning that. But Linden had more 

 

Linden carried his team on his back. Which is why he's so beloved in this city. 

[alt kilgore]

2 hours ago, samurai said:

Torts part 2 anyone?

I honestly think the team we have now is in the perfect spot for a Tortorella bump.  The last time, the team had too many older (stale) players in our core. Add to that Torts wasn't really ready at that time, and needed a break, and perspective, after his last gig in NY.  This team is still young at its core, but is just kind of lost.  They are a perfect fit for his style of coaching right now. 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This team needs a new GM and new coaching. The roster has some holes but really should be better. EP needs a kick in the ass. 

What about scratching EP40 for a game? 

 

What about Miller tonight? What happened with the guy?

[N4ZZY]

2 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This team needs a new GM and new coaching. The roster has some holes but really should be better. EP needs a kick in the ass. 

 What about Jeff Gorton? 

 

He's been without a job for a while now. 

 

[iinatcc]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I think it’s absolutely a coaching style to player style mismatch. 

But how do you fire a coach that you just signed an extension? 

Green could have easily moved on from Vancouver after a disastrous last season, and chose to stay. I know Hockey isn't about loyalty but it's not going to sit well with the hockey coaching community as a whole knowing Canucks can just sign and fire a coach that quickly.  

[lmm]

39 minutes ago, eeeeergh said:

Lol remember Travis Boyd? Guy has 3 points in 6 games (2 goals, 1 assist)

Jimmy Vesey has 3 goals in 12 games. 20 goal season pace lmao. 

Seems every player (except the ones we sent to Arizona) is thriving after they leave us. 

And now its Dickinson and Dowlings turn for career low seasons

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, iinatcc said:

But how do you fire a coach that you just signed an extension? 

Green could have easily moved on from Vancouver after a disastrous last season, and chose to stay. I know Hockey isn't about loyalty but it's not going to sit well with the hockey coaching community as a whole knowing Canucks can just sign and fire a coach that quickly.  

So the team is supposed to lose because of the community? 

It's not like he was hired this summer. He's had a while to try and correct and improve things. 

It hasn't. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

So, I’ve had a few drinks.

 

And this is probably going to be long and rambling, and maybe not as clear or well stated as I’d like.

 

But just a few observations before I turn off the Canucks hockey part of my brain for tonight:

 

* * *
 

Travis Green is currently the 7th longest tenured head coach in the NHL, in his current role.

 

Only 6 NHL head coaches have been with their teams longer. 

Meaning that 25 NHL teams have hired/replaced at least one new head coach, since Green joined the Canucks.

 

Only one working head coach (Blashill) hired prior to 2019 has a record (points percentage) worse than Green.
 

All the others with worse records than Green have been in their jobs for <3 seasons.
 

* * *
 

Jim Benning is the 9th longest tenured GM in the NHL, in his current role.

 

Only 8 NHL GMs have been with their teams longer.

 

Meaning that 23 NHL teams have hired/ replaced their GM, at least once, since Benning came to Vancouver.

 

I didn’t have the energy right now to run the numbers, but I don’t believe any of the longer tenured GMs (still employed by their teams) own worse records (points percentage) than Jim Benning.
 

* * *

 

I’m not necessarily saying that tonight is the night both Green and Benning should be fired.

 

Just that based on their results, and the usual “life expectancy” of their positions, it’s actually quite unusual that they haven’t been fired (yet).

 

These guys have had a good run. They’ve had a lot of time. More than most.

 

They haven’t been successful. 

 

I know there are lots of excuses.

 

But I also know that there are 50+ head coaches and GMs who almost certainly weren’t given the benefit of those same kinds of excuses.

 

Many have been fired for far less.

 

I really don’t think Green and Benning are better at their jobs than all the others who were fired from the other NHL teams’ head coach and GM positions, during Green’s and Benning’s respective tenures with the Canucks.

 

Like I said earlier, I’m not sure tonight is the night to fire anyone, but if the axe is coming down sometime this season, I’m definitely leaning more toward the “fire everyone” camp, both management (other than maybe a couple guys like Ryan Johnson and Chris Gear) and coaching staff (other than Ian Clark, definitely, and maybe also Brad Shaw).

 

I don’t think Benning has done enough during his tenure to deserve the chance at a coaching change. If Green goes, Benning should go too, and all the coaches and staff closely linked to both of them should be cleared out at the same time.

 

I’m okay waiting a little longer though.
 

The 20 game mark was always where I said I’d make my decisions, as to judging this team and what I felt was the best way forward.

 

But this coaching staff and management sure has a steep hill to climb, if they are going to convince me that they’re the best people to guide this team to success.

 

And if changes are needed, I don’t think the owners should wait much longer than the quarter mark of this season, if they hope to turn things around, recover anything positive from 2021-22, and get the team on track to compete for 2022-23 and beyond.

 

Nor do I think they’re well served by firing just the coaches but leaving lame duck management in place, on a short leash, with a GM making his decisions based on trying to save his job, versus ensuring the longterm success of this franchise.

 

So IMO, it’s a choice between staying the course, and remaining patient, despite neither the coach or the GM really having done much to justify ownership (or us fans) continuing to put that level of faith in them.

 

Or finally pulling the trigger, firing both Green and Benning (and all their respective lieutenants), and giving a new GM (and also a President of Hockey Ops, hopefully) the chance to make the necessary hires, and free from ownership interference, to build a completely new staff to manage and coach this team.
 

* * *
 

Anyway, that’s enough of me droning on and on.
 

Sheesh! That was way too long. Kudos to anyone who actually read this far.
 

Have a good night, everyone!  

[Outsiders]

Green's gotta be fired tomorrow. I say it happens

[Curmudgeon]

Somebody said that ex-Canucks thrive after leaving Vancouver. In 180 man-games, ex-Canucks have scored 18 goals and 39 assists for a collective -33. With the exception of Jimmy Vesey, this list was accurate before tonight's games. So, thrive means "generally suck"? Edit: Gadjovich has no goals, one assist. 

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

So, I’ve had a few drinks.

 

And this is probably going to be long and rambling, and maybe not as clear or well stated as I’d like.

 

But just a few observations before I turn off the Canucks hockey part of my brain for tonight:

 

* * *
 

Travis Green is currently the 7th longest tenured head coach in the NHL, in his current role.

 

Only 6 NHL head coaches have been with their teams longer. 

Meaning that 25 NHL teams have hired/replaced at least one new head coach, since Green joined the Canucks.

 

Only one working head coach (Blashill) hired prior to 2019 has a record (points percentage) worse than Green.
 

All the others with worse records than Green have been in their jobs for <3 seasons.
 

* * *
 

Jim Benning is the 9th longest tenured GM in the NHL, in his current role.

 

Only 8 NHL GMs have been with their teams longer.

 

Meaning that 23 NHL teams have hired/ replaced their GM, at least once, since Benning came to Vancouver.

 

I didn’t have the energy right now to run the numbers, but I don’t believe any of the longer tenured GMs (still employed by their teams) own worse records (points percentage) than Jim Benning.
 

* * *

 

I’m not necessarily saying that tonight is the night both Green and Benning should be fired.

 

Just that based on their results, and the usual “life expectancy” of their positions, it’s actually quite unusual that they haven’t been fired (yet).

 

These guys have had a good run. They’ve had a lot of time. More than most.

 

They haven’t been successful. 

 

I know there are lots of excuses.

 

But I also know that there are 50+ head coaches and GMs who almost certainly weren’t given the benefit of those same kinds of excuses.

 

Many have been fired for far less.

 

I really don’t think Green and Benning are better at their jobs than all the others who were fired from the other NHL teams’ head coach and GM positions, during Green’s and Benning’s respective tenures with the Canucks.

 

Like I said earlier, I’m not sure tonight is the night to fire anyone, but if the axe is coming down sometime this season, I’m definitely leaning more toward the “fire everyone” camp, both management (other than maybe a couple guys like Ryan Johnson and Chris Gear) and coaching staff (other than Ian Clark, definitely, and maybe also Brad Shaw).

 

I don’t think Benning has done enough during his tenure to deserve the chance at a coaching change. If Green goes, Benning should go too, and all the coaches and staff closely linked to both of them should be cleared out at the same time.

 

I’m okay waiting a little longer though.
 

The 20 game mark was always where I said I’d make my decisions, as to judging this team and what I felt was the best way forward.

 

But this coaching staff and management sure has a steep hill to climb, if they are going to convince me that they’re the best people to guide this team to success.

 

And if changes are needed, I don’t think the owners should wait much longer than the quarter mark of this season, if they hope to turn things around, recover anything positive from 2021-22, and get the team on track to compete for 2022-23 and beyond.

 

Nor do I think they’re well served by firing just the coaches but leaving lame duck management in place, on a short leash, with a GM making his decisions based on trying to save his job, versus ensuring the longterm success of this franchise.

 

So IMO, it’s a choice between staying the course, and remaining patient, despite neither the coach or the GM really having done much to justify ownership (or us fans) continuing to put that level of faith in them.

 

Or finally pulling the trigger, firing both Green and Benning (and all their respective lieutenants), and giving a new GM (and also a President of Hockey Ops, hopefully) the chance to make the necessary hires, and free from ownership interference, to build a completely new staff to manage and coach this team.
 

* * *
 

Anyway, that’s enough of me droning on and on.
 

Sheesh! That was way too long. Kudos to anyone who actually read this far.
 

Have a good night, everyone!  

[lmm]

35 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I like Rathbone, but let's all remember that he's a rookie, what was he? A 5th round draft choice? 

 

Tonight's loss wasn't on him. The entire team played didn't even show up. Played like they wanted Green fired. I have no idea who the &^@# this team is, but they aren't the Canucks. 

 

I like Rathbone too

I am more concerned about his physical and mental health than I am about this game

He lost his confidence before he was sent down

and he did not regain it in 2 games in Abby.

He looked gassed on that 4th goal

and nearly had his head taken off with that Jost (non)hit. If that was Ryan Reeves Rathbone would be in hospital right now

 

I am reminded of the old Conservative election slogan

"He's just not ready"

[shazzam]

This team needs a spanking. Bring on Torts

[alt kilgore]

3 hours ago, Gnarcore said:

Leave the coaches at the airport. 

 

 

[lmm]

41 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

https://streamable.com/2xm9su

 

Green & Petey'

Green sux

[wallstreetamigo]

Benning has given no one the confidence that he should be trusted with another coaching hire. He tied his fate to Green and Baumgartner and needs to be fired. Weisbrod is a clown and should have never been hired in the first place. Fire him too. And hire a guy like Jim Rutherford as PoHO and interim GM and let him do an exhaustive search for a GM. Let Shaw take the reigns with new, qualified assistants and give him an audition. Once the new GM is hired, let him do an exhaustive coaching search, including Shaw in the mix.

 

Many say Horvat and the players advocated for Green and Baumgartner. If that’s true, welcome to the same old country club (and losing culture) we have seen for a decade. Players should not choose coaches. Good coaches are actually the leaders of the team. 

[sxqhfeh]

41 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I can't read lips. What did he say ?

I saw " why didn't you play &^@#ing better"?

[lmm]

47 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

must be a really rought night on Sportsnet. They usually are still on air, but now I'm hearing about the Kamloops Blazers broadcast? WTF? 

 

They usually have MacIntyre at this time...huh...

 

"Hey Ian, got anything good to say?"

"Nope"

"Ok, we're preempting your spot tonight"

[lmm]

47 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said:

https://streamable.com/2xm9su

 

Green & Petey'

remember when Torts chased Luigi out of town?

Its happening again