Nucker 67 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 JT Miller's goal last night was very impressive. McDavid-like For a contender to add a player like Miller, with his nice contract, gives them an advantage heading down the stretch and into the playoffs this year and next. What if the Rangers, Bruins or Wild make Allvin an offer he can't refuse? I was downplaying Miller's value a little bit, but after seeing that goal, he's a special player. Damn I wish Petey could do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Again, my point is they've never had a goaltender that allows those players to play with the freedom they need to feel confident and grow. Tye Canucks have, arguably, a top 5 goalie in the league. If Ottawa had a Demko right now they'd be in a very, very different spot Your retort was about Hammond.......where's the correlation? But they don't have a Demko. They still don't have a Demko. The Canucks don't have a top pairing RHD. They still don't have a top pairing RHD. Hammond was "The Hamburglar". Do you even remember how highly touted he was as a late blooming superstar goalie? Enough so that the Senators weren't afraid of losing Craig Anderson. I have no doubts in my mind that they felt Hammond could hold the fort until they were able to acquire a great goalie. No different than how many Canucks fans feel they'll be able to find that lucrative top pairing, 2-way, big, mean, young RHD to complement Hughes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said: JT Miller's goal last night was very impressive. McDavid-like For a contender to add a player like Miller, with his nice contract, gives them an advantage heading down the stretch and into the playoffs this year and next. What if the Rangers, Bruins or Wild make Allvin an offer he can't refuse? I was downplaying Miller's value a little bit, but after seeing that goal, he's a special player. Damn I wish Petey could do that. Look... this is to @stawns @Gawdzukes and all the others I've been duelling with the past little bit about trading Miller. If Miller is traded, and the offer is incredible, then I'm good with it. When I say incredible, I mean: Wild: Boldy, Addison, Greenway NYR: Schneider, Laf/Kakko, 1st BOS: Lysell, Carlo, Debrusk, 1st But if the returns are mediocre (ie. Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 2nd), then I'm totally against it. Miller brings WAY too much to the roster to just lose him for a mediocre return. It would be taking not just a step back, but several steps. As Bieksa said, these guys are not that common. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: Look... this is to @stawns @Gawdzukes and all the others I've been duelling with the past little bit about trading Miller. If Miller is traded, and the offer is incredible, then I'm good with it. When I say incredible, I mean: Wild: Boldy, Addison, Greenway NYR: Schneider, Laf/Kakko, 1st BOS: Lysell, Carlo, Debrusk, 1st But if the returns are mediocre (ie. Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 2nd), then I'm totally against it. Miller brings WAY too much to the roster to just lose him for a mediocre return. It would be taking not just a step back, but several steps. As Bieksa said, these guys are not that common. What in the world do you think we've been saying all along? This deadline is for a massive deal, next desfline would be more of a "get what we can" kind of deal. Not once has anyone advocated anything other than a huge return 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Canuck #12 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, HKSR said: Look... this is to @stawns @Gawdzukes and all the others I've been duelling with the past little bit about trading Miller. If Miller is traded, and the offer is incredible, then I'm good with it. When I say incredible, I mean: Wild: Boldy, Addison, Greenway NYR: Schneider, Laf/Kakko, 1st BOS: Lysell, Carlo, Debrusk, 1st But if the returns are mediocre (ie. Lundkvist, Kravtsov, 2nd), then I'm totally against it. Miller brings WAY too much to the roster to just lose him for a mediocre return. It would be taking not just a step back, but several steps. As Bieksa said, these guys are not that common. Those are basically my three predicted (hoped for) trades as well. The only addition I would make would be: Colorado: Newhook, Justin Barron, & possibly a 1st or 2nd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, Shayster007 said: Minny has been my guess since the start of the Miller rumors. I'd take a long look at either Lambos or Addison if they started trade talks. Would love Boldy, huge fan of his game, but doubt he's in any trade talks. He's playing up their lineup right now at nearly a ppg. The fly in the ointment is I think Minny wants Fiala as a big part of the deal. Fiala just seems redundant on the Canucks. Not what they need. Fiala may be a good fit with Philly however, and with Giroux, a center, on the move, that deal may make more sense for Minny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, stawns said: What in the world do you think we've been saying all along? This deadline is for a massive deal, next desfline would be more of a "get what we can" kind of deal. Not once has anyone advocated anything other than a huge return I think the difference between us is that I DON'T think Miller will be able to land us that huge return. Other teams are just so damn stingy that I don't see it happening. I don't see NYR offering any one of: Schneider, Laf, or Kakko -- they'll probably stop at Lundkvist, Kravtsov, and a 1st. We don't need a Lundkvist. We need a Schneider. I don't see the Wild willing to let go of Boldy. So the buck stops there. I don't see Boston giving up Lysell or Carlo. So again, what's the point of moving Miller there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said: Those are basically my three predicted (hoped for) trades as well. The only addition I would make would be: Colorado: Newhook, Justin Barron, & possibly a 1st or 2nd. I'm not convinced that COL package is that incredible either though. Newhook is a sub 6'0" centre. What role would he play? Can't use him as shut down centre, so is he the future 2C? Barron is unproven... so I don't feel comfortable that he's a big win here. A 1st is basically a 2nd since they will likely pick 28th to 32nd. A 2nd is even worse lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HKSR said: I think the difference between us is that I DON'T think Miller will be able to land us that huge return. Other teams are just so damn stingy that I don't see it happening. I don't see NYR offering any one of: Schneider, Laf, or Kakko -- they'll probably stop at Lundkvist, Kravtsov, and a 1st. We don't need a Lundkvist. We need a Schneider. I don't see the Wild willing to let go of Boldy. So the buck stops there. I don't see Boston giving up Lysell or Carlo. So again, what's the point of moving Miller there? If he's the player you say he is, elite and indespensable then why wouldnt he? You're playing both sides of the fence ......on one hand you claim he is irreplaceable and a player who will carry a team on his shoulders. On the other hand he's not a player who will not get the kind of contract that kind of player commands or the kind of return that job and of players gets in a deal Which is it? Edited February 9, 2022 by stawns 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, rekker said: The fly in the ointment is I think Minny wants Fiala as a big part of the deal. Fiala just seems redundant on the Canucks. Not what they need. Fiala may be a good fit with Philly however, and with Giroux, a center, on the move, that deal may make more sense for Minny. If Fiala is the return plus more for Miller, then I'd have to see a Boeser trade on top of that. Fiala would basically replace Boeser. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, stawns said: If he's the player you say he is, elite and indespensable then why wouldnt he? You're playing both sides of the fence ......on one hand you claim he is irreplaceable and a player who will carry tram on his shoulders. On the other hand he's not a player who will not get the kind of contract that kind of player can mmands or the kind of return that job and of players gets in a deal Which is it? Man, you just love conflict don't you lol. I'm not playing both sides. I am firm in that I don't want Miller traded because I don't think the return will be good enough. There are 2 teams in a trade. I feel Miller is worth way more to the Canucks than another team would be willing to give up for him. I think Miller could be re-signed for around $8M to $8.5M, and I believe that would be totally fine long term. In 8 years, I am confident the upper cap limit will be $95M+. $8.5M of a $95M upper limit is the equivalent of a $7.4M cap hit in today's $82.5M cap world. I'd be completely fine with that. Clear as mud right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, HKSR said: Ottawa fans thought trading away their aging vets to focus on their young core was the way to go about building a Stanley Cup contender in 4 to 5 years once their core came into their prime. They thought the cap space and assets acquired would be able to fill in the gaps (goalie) and build that perennial powerhouse. So you are saying that if they signed Duchene, Stone and Karlsson to huge long term contracts (29 million worth) rather than trading them that they would be a cup contender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, coryberg said: So you are saying that if they signed Duchene, Stone and Karlsson to huge long term contracts (29 million worth) rather than trading them that they would be a cup contender? Who knows? That'd just be a guess, but shortly before all those trades happened, they lost Game 7 of the 3rd round against the Penguins. If they kept going in that direction and added those ELC young guns to the mix... who knows, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 13 minutes ago, HKSR said: Man, you just love conflict don't you lol. I'm not playing both sides. I am firm in that I don't want Miller traded because I don't think the return will be good enough. There are 2 teams in a trade. I feel Miller is worth way more to the Canucks than another team would be willing to give up for him. I think Miller could be re-signed for around $8M to $8.5M, and I believe that would be totally fine long term. In 8 years, I am confident the upper cap limit will be $95M+. $8.5M of a $95M upper limit is the equivalent of a $7.4M cap hit in today's $82.5M cap world. I'd be completely fine with that. Clear as mud right? Yeah, you're all over the map 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: Yeah, you're all over the map Yeah ok then. I don't want Miller traded because I don't think the return will be good enough. That's it. That's my stance. I tried to give you more info about what I think, but it seems to confuse you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 minute ago, HKSR said: Who knows? That'd just be a guess, but shortly before all those trades happened, they lost Game 7 of the 3rd round against the Penguins. If they kept going in that direction and added those ELC young guns to the mix... who knows, right? Actualy shortly before those trades they absolutely tanked and were one pf the worst teams in the league...(hello tkatchuk!). The elc young guns like Stuzle and Norris? Sorry, those guys don't exist in that reality, they were acquired by retooling. By your logic the Canadiens should double down and hold on to all of their aging vets because after all shortly before now they were in the cup finals. They just need to keep going in that direction... easy peasy! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: I don't want Miller traded because I don't think the return will be good enough. That's it. That's my stance. But just for arguments sake, do you agree that any 'reasonable' return (subject to each person's definition of reasonable, I'll admit), is better than the possibility of him walking away for nothing when he's UFA? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 BOS would want to include Debrusk in the return to make room for Miller, so they would actually pay more? (LW) Jake DeBrusk (LW) Fabian Lysell (LD/RD) Jakub Zboril (G) Jeremy Swayman 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 49 minutes ago, HKSR said: Again, you really think Trocheck's trade for basically scraps is a HUGE win? So if JT Miller was traded for scraps, that's a HUGE win to you? Like I said, I'd give you Colorado, but they have yet to even make the 3rd round. So let's wait and see. We cannot count on the Rangers model, as you said, we have NO luck. So I dismissed it. I think any moves that develop the team forward is a huge win, yes. Would Florida be the team they are right now if they kept Trocheck? Who knows, it's very possible. It's also possible because of his cap hit and position on the lineup that they wouldn't be where they are right now. So yes, Florida moving off Trocheck was a huge win, because they are currently the best team in the entire league. Without reading Trocheck maybe they don't see the emergence of Duclair. Maybe they don't have the cap to trade for SR. Is the trade a win in a vacuum, no. Was the trade a win for the team in the long run? Being first in the league leads me to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Just now, NUCKER67 said: BOS would want to include Debrusk in the return to make room for Miller, so they would actually pay more? (LW) Jake DeBrusk (LW) Fabian Lysell (LD/RD) Jakub Zboril (G) Jeremy Swayman 1st No way I do that deal. Debrusk requires a 4.1 mil QO this summer, zboril is a bottom pairing dman, we have no need for swayman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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