Gawdzukes Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Me_ said: I’m glad you will not be upset if the Canucks keep Miller and win a Cup. What other purpose is there in hockey if not to win the Cup? I am baffled. Tried to be polite. It was a mistake. Thanks for putting zero effort into reading what I wrote. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I stand by this. Any time a team is THIS dependent on a single player, that is at the forward position for their success. The team is NOT a contender and is in fact deluding themselves. Signing or trading Miller will NOT immediately fix the weaknesses this team has as evidenced by our lack of success without him; but also some of our lack with him. One player can not do it all. Whether we trade him or retain him, the glaring issues with this team still remain and if Miller goes down for any reason and any amount of time; our season is over. I'm gonna go out on a limb because I won't be able to find actual numbers to back it up, but I reckon during the Blackhawks hey days, if Kane were pulled out of their lineup, they would not be a contender. If Crosby were out of the Pens lineup, they wouldn't be a contender. If Kucherov was out of the Lightning's lineup, they wouldn't have won their cups. If Ryan O'Reilly was taken out of the Blues lineup, they wouldn't have won the Cup. If Ovechkin was out of the Caps lineup.... Bottomline is that it is a really weak argument to take a franchise player, and one of the absolute best players in the entire NHL right now out of a lineup and hold that against a team saying that they wouldn't be any good without him lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Coconuts said: I'd rather potentially take a step back to take three forward. I've said it repeatedly over the last page or two, I firmly believe we can be competitive without Miller. Our strength is currently our offense, we have a top six of Miller, Garland, Boeser, Horvat, and Pettersson. We have tweener or borderline guys in Pearson, Hoglander, and Podkolzin. Our weaknesses are our backup, our D, and our bottom six. I advocate taking from a strength to shore up weaknesses, and Miller's our best trade with which to do that. And I believe that's the way to go. Believe it or not, I'm not content to just sit at the bottom and collect draft picks, but I'm not content with mediocrity or a team that I don't see as good enough. If a top end player was all it took to win cups we'd see Edmonton or Toronto breaking through, it's going to take more than Miller and this team isn't good enough in my eyes. I don't see us breaking through in 2-3 years, I see us suffering like most contenders do, assuming we even reach contender status sooner than later. I don't care about the best leader, I want to have one of the best teams, and I don't see us getting there in a 1-2 year turnaround. I want a team with a lengthy window, one built around our young stars that are likely to be the pieces to having longevity, not going all on a vet because he's having a career season. We have different ideas of how to get to that top tier team. I don't see why disagreement has to always result in animosity. Yeah, we've all got strong feelings about this, but if we have to take personal shots at each other that nukes our credibility and our argument. I'll get heated sometimes, but I try to stay as neutral as I can while having my own views and ways of seeing things. Maybe, but LA was an anomaly in that they were a better team than shown during the regular season. I remember watching those LA teams and they came at you in waves, even their top liners played like fourth liners. They were absolutely built for playoff hockey, that's why they benefitted once the regular season rulebook was thrown away. Pittsburgh had Crosby, Malkin, Fluery, and Letang. We have no Crosby or Malkin, we have Miller and he's been fantastic this year but he's not either of those guys. He's certainly no Crosby, even now. The Blackhawks I'll give you, but they were lead by their youth, which is exactly what I've been advocating for. Not always, but more often than not teams suffer before they get a crack. And these are great teams that suffer. They did, but even average goaltending from St. Louis and we likely would have lost. We met Vegas and honestly should have been out in five, that was all Demko. Could we be an anomaly? Maybe, but I'd be surprised and I certainly wouldn't bet on it. Even if we managed to get out of the west any time in the near future I wouldn't expect us to be Florida, Tampa, or Carolina in a seven game series. Best teams have the best leaders, scroll through it,. Find a captaincy that that isn’t HIGH end. Miller should be Captain, it’s who our players are drawn to. Perhaps that why Bo is not as engaged in games other than looking for his position slot side / circle on the pp. watch how many hits he passes on in a game Coconuts.. he is consistent at it.. be critical of him. Lamikko back checks better than him now, that’s why U Haul is given the bigger checking assignment lately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, SilentSam said: I like what @Me_ has suggested, 8.5mx 5 yr. (42.5m) Id Also think 7m x 6yr (42. m) might work too, leaving the player optional trade lists in yrs 4, 5 & 6 at his request in year 4, the teams and his request in 5 & 6. If he isn’t winning a cup here by then, he should be able to pursue his dream elsewhere. To have JT Miller as a leader or Captain on this Canuck Team for 4 years minimum, will place the right hockey mindset into the younger players he is with, and a go to guy for vets, Coaches and staff alike. He handles every situation well.… and that’s without considering his ppg average getting better, consistent, or worse. Injuries , long or short term occur to anybody, don’t accept that argument in the “declining asset” analytics. 30 is not old lmao! He looks after himself, he wouldn’t play like that if he didn’t. You know I'm ALL for re-signing Miller, but realistically though, I just can't see him signing for less than 8 years with us (7 years as UFA). What would be his incentive to do so? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 18 minutes ago, HKSR said: Don't get me started on Mackinnon. He didn't take less money. He took market value. It just looks good in hindsight. He spoke publicly about willing to take less on his next contract to keep the team competitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, wai_lai416 said: He spoke publicly about willing to take less on his next contract to keep the team competitive Until he does it and signs for less than market value, it's all talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: You know I'm ALL for re-signing Miller, but realistically though, I just can't see him signing for less than 8 years with us (7 years as UFA). What would be his incentive to do so? Give him the freedom to move if he wants to win a cup and it’s not happening here,. That’s what every ounce of his sweat is about. Some contracts handcuff teams and players.. around the 7m number he is still a tradeable asset as the cap rises in 4 years. Thats where the player might do the team the favour of moving for its next Re-tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Give him the freedom to move if he wants to win a cup and it’s not happening here,. That’s what every ounce of his sweat is about. Some contracts handcuff teams and players.. around the 7m number he is still a tradeable asset as the cap rises in 4 years. Thats where the player might do the team the favour of moving for its next Re-tool. That's a really big risk for him though... What if he gets injured? What if his production really plummets by age 34 or 35? What contender would want him then? All while leaving $15 to $20M+ on the table right now? I can't see him taking that big of a risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, HKSR said: Until he does it and signs for less than market value, it's all talk. Sure but why say it in public if u aint going to do it? He has no need to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 27 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Best teams have the best leaders, scroll through it,. Find a captaincy that that isn’t HIGH end. Miller should be Captain, it’s who our players are drawn to. Perhaps that why Bo is not as engaged in games other than looking for his position slot side / circle on the pp. watch how many hits he passes on in a game Coconuts.. he is consistent at it.. be critical of him. Lamikko back checks better than him now, that’s why U Haul is given the bigger checking assignment lately. Best player doesn't make him the best captain... is Matthew Tkachuk a captain material? No. Miller same thing he's great when thing goes his way. He sulks when it doesn't and gives up on plays way too often. Not exactly captain material 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Sure but why say it in public if u aint going to do it? He has no need to say it. If I recall correctly, the media person specifically asked him about it. It kinda put him on the spot. What was he gonna say? NO WAY! I WANNA GET PAID THE BILLS YO! lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Sure but why say it in public if u aint going to do it? He has no need to say it. Because in the mean time the fans will love him, and the endorsement money can keep rolling in? Plus he could merely be trying to get the other players to sign for less, leaving him a bigger slice of the pie for himself.? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: If I recall correctly, the media person specifically asked him about it. It kinda put him on the spot. What was he gonna say? NO WAY! I WANNA GET PAID THE BILLS YO! lol Or he can say we will talk contract when that day comes since he still had over 3 years left on his contract when he signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 21 minutes ago, HKSR said: That's a really big risk for him though... What if he gets injured? What if his production really plummets by age 34 or 35? What contender would want him then? All while leaving $15 to $20M+ on the table right now? I can't see him taking that big of a risk. This whole thread is speculation.. let’s really be real .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Or he can say we will talk contract when that day comes since he still had over 3 years left on his contract when he signed I guess this goes back to how JT Miller has said he loves it here, his family loves it here, but people seem to think that means he wants to leave because "what else is he supposed to say?" ... we won't know until it happens. I personally don't think Mackinnon is gonna take much of a discount. He didn't the first time around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, SilentSam said: This whole thread is speculation.. let’s really be real .. No kidding lol. If we weren't speculating, there'd be nothing to talk about 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, gurn said: Because in the mean time the fans will love him, and the endorsement money can keep rolling in? Plus he could merely be trying to get the other players to sign for less, leaving him a bigger slice of the pie for himself.? Lol how many player took less money to sign with patriots just so Brady can take more of the pie? No one say no to money.. why else billionaire keeps getting richer by squeezing the middle lower class dry? They have enough money to last them like 20 generations already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, HKSR said: I guess this goes back to how JT Miller has said he loves it here, his family loves it here, but people seem to think that means he wants to leave because "what else is he supposed to say?" ... we won't know until it happens. I personally don't think Mackinnon is gonna take much of a discount. He didn't the first time around. I dont think he will take a massive discount by say if he signs for 1 mil less per year thats already a lot. I mean he already has 30mil+ contract in the bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: I dont think he will take a massive discount by say if he signs for 1 mil less per year thats already a lot. I mean he already has 30mil+ contract in the bank He's probably worth $11M to $12M AAV... so yeah, if he signs for say $10.5M AAV, then I'll give it to ya that he took a discount Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 58 minutes ago, SilentSam said: I like what @Me_ has suggested, 8.5mx 5 yr. (42.5m) Id Also think 7m x 6yr (42. m) might work too, leaving the player optional trade lists in yrs 4, 5 & 6 at his request in year 4, the teams and his request in 5 & 6. If he isn’t winning a cup here by then, he should be able to pursue his dream elsewhere. To have JT Miller as a leader or Captain on this Canuck Team for 4 years minimum, will place the right hockey mindset into the younger players he is with, and a go to guy for vets, Coaches and staff alike. He handles every situation well.… and that’s without considering his ppg average getting better, consistent, or worse. Injuries , long or short term occur to anybody, don’t accept that argument in the “declining asset” analytics. 30 is not old lmao! He looks after himself, he wouldn’t play like that if he didn’t. This. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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