[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

Someone will sign him for 8.5, not sure about the 7-8 year part. For us, it depends on how Rutherford views the best chance for this team over the next 4-5 years. Will Miller decline, of course. Could he still be an impact top 6 C, yes.

 

8.5x8 is a big number though. 

 

But who says we have to extend him? if he won't do something reasonable we can just keep him and move him during the season. He'll be very motivated to keep scoring, since its his big payday year. 

Which team exactly will sign Miller in summer 2023 to a 60 plus mil contract?  

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Haha yeah and then hear the excuses like they were going to score anyway so no point in backchecking. Said no good coach or player anywhere. At least show your teammates you tried. The thing that's irritated me for years is his lack of commitment to D. Part of it is because he's not fast or quick but his idea of defence is skating/coasting about 2 feet behind his mark on rushes. Close enough to hopefully get a stick in if a pass comes but more importantly he's a poacher hoping for a turnover that gives him an odd man rush the other way. I lost count of how many times the puck ends up in our own net when all he had to do was cover his man. I've noticed this for years now so it's not like I'm just reaching or anything. Don't even get me going on the no look passes in front of his own net.

 

He's a great offensive player, good size, good faceoffs, hits, plays with emotion, but he's weak defensively and completely gives up on plays when they don't go his way.

I don't think Miller gives up on plays.  I think he's not as fit as he could be and is gassed.  He's still trying his hardest, but his stamina isn't where it could be. 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I don't think Miller gives up on plays.  I think he's not as fit as he could be and is gassed.  He's still trying his hardest, but his stamina isn't where it could be. 

lol if that's the case.. then we have a serious issue with him declining sooner than we think.. but some suggested his conditioning is top notch and there's no way he will decline till his mid 30s

[Me_]

What the hell is going on in this thread?

 

You’re trashing our best player! The hell is wrong with you???

 

Now Miller isn’t fit enough for you? 
 

Is this for real?
 

Maybe the Canucks should trade and rebuild and give you another ten years of bottom feeding yawl like drafting kids so much. 
 

Man this is frustrating. The Canucks will never win a Cup with that kind of non-support from their so-called fans.

 

There's nothing to cry about regarding Miller. Get off your couch and exercise as much as he does on an off day and tell Me how you feel after that let alone play a game against the best of the best.

 

Give me a freakin’ break people. 
 

You’re constantly trying to break our team apart. Nothing is ever good enough for you whiners.

 

You think you know what the hell you’re talking about but all you do is tell us how deceived you are and in infinite amounts of analytical detail as if that counted for anything.
 

Chose another freaking team! Or another sport!

 

Just stop it already.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Me_

[MeanSeanBean]

3 hours ago, Muttley said:

Absolutely.  It's what happens when some people will say anything, even fabricate previous players trends to try and push their own foolish narratives. 

Personally, I like to go by what I watch as a fan and an ex player, and make my assumptions based on what I see and what is really happening, elongated point streaks, 

Play on the power play, even strength and penalty killing (because they need him to), and go by that. 

This will be my last visit to this thread because it's deteriorated into pure unmitigated falsehoods not worthy of my time.  My Dad use to quote Archie Bunker once in a while when he heard foolish comments.  I'll leave it thar.

You mean like ignoring the well know fact that the majority players in their 30s start declining and making up stories about how Miller is one of most well conditioned players in the league?

 

It's all fine and dandy if you don't want to spend time in a thread. But trying to take the high ground, when the only posts I have seen recently that can't be backed up with quotes or facts are yours, is silly.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Shayster007

[MeanSeanBean]

26 minutes ago, Muttley said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/433908-nhl-better-with-age-the-top-10-players-over-35-years-old

Yes, I addressed this exact thing in my post that clarified that the elite of the elite often extend their prime past their 30s (the CBC article goes over this). Now if we are done with the greatest hits album, here is some actual data.

 

https://nerdhockey.com/by-the-numbers/2015/8/7/when-do-nhl-forwards-regress

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271172145_Estimating_the_effects_of_age_on_NHL_player_performance

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

 

I'm not really expecting you to read them all, but regardless here are some articles if you're into that kinda thing.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Shayster007

[JM_]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

I think his agent will be looking for $65m +/-. You can divide that by how ever many years you like and get whichever AAV that equals. Less years, higher AAV. More years, lower AAV.

 

Personally I think signing him for longer than 5-6 years for us would be insane. At 5 or 6 years, you're looking at +/- $13m or $10.833m AAV....

 

no one is going to do tat 

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

So shall we talk about that trade return?! 

 

yes, for Pearson, Dickie, Poolman and Garland 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

You mentioned you're of the retain and support argument. I can appreciate where you're coming from. I see both sides but I think we should be re-tooling. We simply need too many parts to keep this thing rolling along, even as poorly as it has been imo, and very little flexibility to add. I'm not willing to hang my hat on the BB part of the season and ignore everything else. At the end of the day we're still not currently a playoff team.

 

My main reason for feeling this way though is I decided to really support the firing of Green and JB (after getting peppered for months on CDC) and get behind the new management group who themselves stated the need for some big changes. I feel it's a great opportunity to do the right things for once. Things like not surrendering retirement contracts in order to appease the fans that will for sure hurt the club sooner than later. If JB were here we'd definitely be loading up for one final kick at the can and then rebuilding in 2 years. The management change gets us a get out of purgatory card. We should be using it.

 

 

It would be a massive mistake to not trade him before the season starts. Way to much risk.

Its interesting the phrase - do it right. Thats kind of how I see the next 10 years e.g. of this team. Build up the support for the current core, and let them run with it for 3-4 playoffs. If thats not successful, blow the whole thing up, and tank properly for 2 years, collect those high picks, extra 1sts etc. and actually rebuild from the ground up.

 

My concern with moving Miller for picks and prospects is the picks won't contribute for 3-4 years anyway, and I'm not sold on the prospects not being a risk. If you could show me a real hockey trade for Miller- e.g., Miller for a prime years RHD then maybe we're looking at something I can get behind. 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Which team exactly will sign Miller in summer 2023 to a 60 plus mil contract?  

the one that we're supposedly going to get a kings ransom from in a deal. You can't have it both ways, we can't think we're solving our prospect problems and have Miller not being very valuable to someone.

 

If he's worth a massive trade return then he's worth the salary. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

no one is going to do tat 

I agree, which means he's getting a 7 or 8 year deal at +/- $9.3 or $8.125m... neither of which we should be signing either. Still too much money and that term is terrifying with where we're at in our cycle.

 

Like I've said numerous times. I just don't see overlap of a contract that works for the player, that also works for the Canucks. It's a non starter. I don't care if management is saying the "right things" about "talking extension in the summer" etc. It's pure PR. The math is pretty overwhelmingly clear and plain, that it's simply not going to (and shouldn't) happen.

 

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

yes, for Pearson, Dickie, Poolman and Garland 

We need to trade a couple-three of them (include Boeser and Myers in that list as potentials as well). 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

Its interesting the phrase - do it right. Thats kind of how I see the next 10 years e.g. of this team. Build up the support for the current core, and let them run with it for 3-4 playoffs. If thats not successful, blow the whole thing up, and tank properly for 2 years, collect those high picks, extra 1sts etc. and actually rebuild from the ground up.

 

My concern with moving Miller for picks and prospects is the picks won't contribute for 3-4 years anyway, and I'm not sold on the prospects not being a risk. If you could show me a real hockey trade for Miller- e.g., Miller for a prime years RHD then maybe we're looking at something I can get behind. 

Why would we blow up a team with it's 3 biggest core players at their peaks?

[Coconuts]

8 hours ago, JM_ said:

imo we just don't know what this management group is going to do. Even the 2 year competitive thing, we don't actually know what that means, and that was said before this team showed a lot of character. 

 

Are we going to try to retain and support the current core, or do a re-tool? I sure don't know. I can see an argument for both ways. My personal preference is the retention and support route, in part because I don't think the trade returns are going to be there for us for a quick re-tool. 

 

So on and on we argue 

 

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Only us.  Which specific team will pay Miller 60 plus million.  He will be 30.  It's with us this summer or not at all for Miller.

I think you'd be pretty surprised Alf, I really do. Top UFA's always get paid, and teams looking to try to contend in the short term have signed players to big contracts for years. It'll cost a lottt to retain him even if he's got interest in re-signing, and it'll cost a lottt to nab hi via UFA if he gets there. 

 

Hence the apprehension some folks have regarding Miller. Most folks recognize that he's dynamic offensively, but they question his longevity and other areas of his game. He's not a perfect player, and every player has a peak. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Why would we blow up a team with it's 3 biggest core players at their peaks?

we'd only do that if it was faltering 

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, Me_ said:

What the hell is going on in this thread?

 

You’re trashing our best player! The hell is wrong with you???

 

Now Miller isn’t fit enough for you? 
 

Is this for real?
 

Maybe the Canucks should trade and rebuild and give you another ten years of bottom feeding yawl like drafting kids so much. 
 

Man this is frustrating. The Canucks will never win a Cup with that kind of non-support from their so-called fans.

 

There's nothing to cry about regarding Miller. Get off your couch and exercise as much as he does on an off day and tell Me how you feel after that let alone play a game against the best of the best.

 

Give me a freakin’ break people. 
 

You’re constantly trying to break our team apart. Nothing is ever good enough for you whiners.

 

You think you know what the hell you’re talking about but all you do is tell us how deceived you are and in infinite amounts of analytical detail as if that counted for anything.
 

Chose another freaking team! Or another sport!

 

Just stop it already.

 

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I agree, which means he's getting a 7 or 8 year deal at +/- $9.3 or $8.125m... neither of which we should be signing either. Still too much money and that term is terrifying with where we're at in our cycle.

 

Like I've said numerous times. I just don't see overlap of a contract that works for the player, that also works for the Canucks. It's a non starter. I don't care if management is saying the "right things" about "talking extension in the summer" etc. It's pure PR. The math is pretty overwhelmingly clear and plain, that it's simply not going to (and shouldn't) happen.

 

We need to trade a couple-three of them (include Boeser and Myers in that list as potentials as well). 

So show me a deal where its not a late 1st and a 20 year old prospect for Miller. Is there a  top 4 RHD in the 25-26 year old range we could get for him? 

[Me_]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Was not expecting that.

 

[aGENT]

41 minutes ago, JM_ said:

So show me a deal where its not a late 1st and a 20 year old prospect for Miller. Is there a  top 4 RHD in the 25-26 year old range we could get for him? 

Why make such an arbitrary goal post?  Why does it have to be a 25-26 year old? Does he have to be a top 4 D NOW? Can't he be a top 4 D in say, 2 years?

 

I think we could assume guys like Marino, Lundqvist, Schneider etc, that management has already been rumoured to be interested in. There's probably a few guys none of us would see coming either. 

[JM_]

49 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Why make such an arbitrary goal post?  Why does it have to be a 25-26 year old? Does he have to be a top 4 D NOW? Can't he be a top 4 D in say, 2 years?

 

I think we could assume guys like Marino, Lundqvist, Schneider etc, that management has already been rumoured to be interested in. There's probably a few guys none of us would see coming either. 

its not arbitrary at all. Thats the age when most d men begin to really mature into their primes. I want certainty (as much as possible anyway) in a return for Miller. If we could land someone like Marino thats something I'd be a lot more comfortable with in the deal. But a late 1st and a 20 year old... how many guys looked good early and were meh? Hi Ben Hutton. Pits would have to add something but maybe not too much.

 

Here's what NJ did with that 1st rounder they got from us via Tampa: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=225854 

 

So the picks for Miller to me are a throw in. Prospects like Lundqvist has 25 games and didn't stick with the team. We can do better. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

its not arbitrary at all. Thats the age when most d men begin to really mature into their primes. I want certainty (as much as possible anyway) in a return for Miller. If we could land someone like Marino thats something I'd be a lot more comfortable with in the deal. But a late 1st and a 20 year old... how many guys looked good early and were meh? Hi Ben Hutton. Pits would have to add something but maybe not too much.

 

Here's what NJ did with that 1st rounder they got from us via Tampa: https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=225854 

 

So the picks for Miller to me are a throw in. Prospects like Lundqvist has 25 games and didn't stick with the team. We can do better. 

Love to see a bigger and badder Vegas run the Avs out of the playoffs in round one.  Then hopefully we could shake loose Newhook and Byram for Miller.  

[JM_]

Just now, Alflives said:

Love to see a bigger and badder Vegas run the Avs out of the playoffs in round one.  Then hopefully we could shake loose Newhook and Byram for Miller.  

If MacKinnon is dealing with a hand injury, that could happen. And then if Kadri does Kadri things there could be an opening at C there.