[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

The probability of the Canucks playing as a .638 team if he was here to begin the 2021-22 season is quite a fair assessment.

 

Regardless,  the growth, and development for a lot of our players this season was a positive experience because of Boudreau.

I think that should be greatly valued.

 

 

 

That last part is dead on, an extremely good end in many ways. I would lean more towards it being quite possible we achieve a .600 level of play. I think your .638 is a little optimistic but at least it's reasonable. Myself I find it too risky to ink Miller to a long contract ($50m) to find out if they can improve on that.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[Coconuts]

2 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

The core of our team is very young. It will take them time to mature. You can laugh but we lost a lot a lot of leadership when Beagle, Roussel, and Loui were dealt. We need some veterans in there who play the game the right way. OEL is a great step defensively. Plays like the ones where Peterson gives the puck away on the PP for a shorty to lose the game need to be corrected. The team also needs desperately to learn how to manage the games, as evidenced  once again in the Minnesota game. We need to stop giving the puck away needlessly in our own end. Someone has to get these guys playing the game the right way, and responsibility is the key. It usually comes from a veteran presence. Bo is good but he's a younger Captain who has grown with the very players he's leading, and still learning and growing himself. I don't think we have bad leadership. We just need more of it.

We never filled the voids left by Sutter and Beagle. Not on the PK, not at faceoffs, and not in the room. Lammikko's progressed and played himself into probably being a keeper (I'd still look for an upgrade at center and slot him on the wing) but I wouldn't say he what the aforementioned two were for this club.

 

Sutter got a lot of flack, and he couldn't catch a break with injuries, but he was a good guy/player to have on the team. If he'd made 1-2M less nobody would have complained. I didn't have an issue with Beagle as I thought he was solid value, he was probably 1M overpaid but that's what happens when you pick up a center via UFA who just won a cup. 

 

I'd rather build from the net out and be a plucky team that's tough to play against than the current run and gun team that lives and dies by Vezina caliber goaltending. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Coconuts

[SilentSam]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

That last part is dead on, an extremely good end in many ways. I would lean more towards it being quite possible we achieve a .600 level of play. I think your .638 is a little optimistic but at least it's reasonable. Myself I find it too risky to ink Miller to a long contract ($50m) to find out if they can improve on that.

Cheers,

the think about Miller is how he has been helping Podz and Petey and others to elevate their game.

there is a pure leadership aura around him,.

and all point totals aside,.  He has not been selfish accumulating the points he has,  his assists outweigh his goals almost 3:1

 

Thst type of play also makes others better,  more goals by committee/ team and players going to the open areas to create opportunity, creates many opportunities.

I hope we can keep JT.

His type of leadership should amount to 25-30% of his contract worth..  that’s where it pays off for us.

Yes, make him tradeable after the 3-4 year mark..  if we aren’t going deep into the playoffs by then,  he deserves to be on a team that is,.  The pay back for him will still warrant a decent return.

 

He knows Vancouver gave him the opportunity to play to his potential,.  I hope we get a bit of a return for that if he signs here again,  the relationship both this player and Team has created here is pretty special.

 

[SilentSam]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

We never filled the voids left by Sutter and Beagle. Not on the PK, not at faceoffs, and not in the room. Lammikko's progressed and played himself into probably being a keeper (I'd still look for an upgrade at center and slot him on the wing) but I wouldn't say he what the aforementioned two were for this club.

 

Sutter got a lot of flack, and he couldn't catch a break with injuries, but he was a good guy/player to have on the team. If he'd made 1-2M less nobody would have complained. I didn't have an issue with Beagle as I thought he was solid value, he was probably 1M overpaid but that's what happens when you pick up a center via UFA who just won a cup. 

 

I'd rather build from the net out and be a plucky team that's tough to play against than the current run and gun team that lives and dies by Vezina caliber goaltending. 

I think we should be considering Sutters career over by now shouldn’t we?

 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

I think we should be considering Sutters career over by now shouldn’t we?

 

Yeah, he's likely done, but we missed him

 

Shame Covid's likely finished his career, I hate seeing guys not be able to make that decision for themselves 

[BigTramFan]

13 hours ago, Zhukini said:

They're 13th in the league since Bruce took over. That's including a 8-0-1 run and a 6 game win streak. 

 

They've been good but they aren't no world beaters even with him running the bench. 

According to my calculations, the Canucks under Boudreau have played 54 games and gathered 69 points out of a possible 108. That's a 0.639 pts % and if that was their pt % for the season it puts them in 11th place in the league just ahead of the Penguins on 0.631, and second in the Pacific behind Calgary on 0.684.

[JM_]

12 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

The core of our team is very young. It will take them time to mature. You can laugh but we lost a lot a lot of leadership when Beagle, Roussel, and Loui were dealt. We need some veterans in there who play the game the right way. OEL is a great step defensively. Plays like the ones where Peterson gives the puck away on the PP for a shorty to lose the game need to be corrected. The team also needs desperately to learn how to manage the games, as evidenced  once again in the Minnesota game. We need to stop giving the puck away needlessly in our own end. Someone has to get these guys playing the game the right way, and responsibility is the key. It usually comes from a veteran presence. Bo is good but he's a younger Captain who has grown with the very players he's leading, and still learning and growing himself. I don't think we have bad leadership. We just need more of it.

so in your mind, Miller hasn't been a leader?

[Gawdzukes]

11 hours ago, Coconuts said:

We never filled the voids left by Sutter and Beagle. Not on the PK, not at faceoffs, and not in the room. Lammikko's progressed and played himself into probably being a keeper (I'd still look for an upgrade at center and slot him on the wing) but I wouldn't say he what the aforementioned two were for this club.

 

Sutter got a lot of flack, and he couldn't catch a break with injuries, but he was a good guy/player to have on the team. If he'd made 1-2M less nobody would have complained. I didn't have an issue with Beagle as I thought he was solid value, he was probably 1M overpaid but that's what happens when you pick up a center via UFA who just won a cup. 

 

I'd rather build from the net out and be a plucky team that's tough to play against than the current run and gun team that lives and dies by Vezina caliber goaltending. 

Yep, spot on. I had tried to back JB and give him the benefit of the doubt but he lost it this year. As you indicated no replacement at all for Sutter (how did I forget him) or Beagle, or any replacements in the bottom 6 except Chiasson who wasn't even a starter or necessarily going to make the team. Otherwise he was expecting Hoglander, Podkolzin, Lockwood, Dries, Highmore and Petan to lead the group. Add those guys to Petey, Garland, and Brock and it's easy to see how we lack leadership. Bo and Pearson are our best leaders on forward. Miller is a pretty decent leader but he's more of a motivator and an inspirational player. The last thing we need is guys like Petey trying some of the crap Miller does like back passes to no one in front of his own net or trying to beat someone through the legs when he's last man back, floating 1 foot behind his mark on the backcheck, or going one on three in overtime and then giving up when he loses it. These are all bad habits Miller can get away sometimes but also single-handedly loses games and is a piss poor example to the rest of the young players.

 

Yes this team relies too much on goaltending and run and gun hockey. It's fun and all but doesn't produce winners unless you're absolutely stacked everywhere with talent. We are not. This is all related to leadership and playing the game the right way.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

These are all bad habits Miller can get away sometimes but also single-handedly loses games and is a piss poor example to the rest of the young players.

this is a bit much. Now Miller loses games for us? I know you don't like him but come on. 

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, JM_ said:

so in your mind, Miller hasn't been a leader?

Oh no he's a leader but he also makes Miller types of plays which at 29 he has mastered to some degree, but they are very risky. Besides the leadership Miller brings putting the team on his back, scoring tonnes of points, playing with passion, playing hard, playing fast, and ornery, never taking a shift off, speaking for the team, and leading by example we also need some veterans to tell the team when to take chances and when not to, how to protect a lead, when to push and when not to push, which types of plays are too high risk, and how to conduct yourself in high pressure situations.

 

So I guess I would say not only is he a leader he is a very good leader in his own right but we also need other kinds of leadership. One person can't do it all.

[SilentSam]

11 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Yeah, he's likely done, but we missed him

 

Shame Covid's likely finished his career, I hate seeing guys not be able to make that decision for themselves 

He wasn’t playing full seasons with us before Covid  . .  I was hoping he would have been moved when we were paying him too much for what we were getting.

Edited April 26, 2022 by SilentSam

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Oh no he's a leader but he also makes Miller types of plays which at 29 he has mastered to some degree, but they are very risky. Besides the leadership Miller brings putting the team on his back, scoring tonnes of points, playing with passion, playing hard, playing fast, and ornery, never taking a shift off, speaking for the team, and leading by example we also need some veterans to tell the team when to take chances and when not to, how to protect a lead, when to push and when not to push, which types of plays are too high risk, and how to conduct yourself in high pressure situations.

 

So I guess I would say not only is he a leader he is a very good leader in his own right but we also need other kinds of leadership. One person can't do it all.

Geez, I think I might have to agree with you for once.  Not gonna make it a habit though

 

Anyways, I think part of it is also experience.  JT Miller and this team in general need more experience playing these types of meaningful games.  They NEED to make the playoffs to learn from mistakes.  The best thing that has happened down this stretch is learning what kind of work ethic and determination is required to succeed in this league.  Which is why I'm hoping most of this team comes back intact to make another run at the season.  They deserve that chance together.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Oh no he's a leader but he also makes Miller types of plays which at 29 he has mastered to some degree, but they are very risky. Besides the leadership Miller brings putting the team on his back, scoring tonnes of points, playing with passion, playing hard, playing fast, and ornery, never taking a shift off, speaking for the team, and leading by example we also need some veterans to tell the team when to take chances and when not to, how to protect a lead, when to push and when not to push, which types of plays are too high risk, and how to conduct yourself in high pressure situations.

 

So I guess I would say not only is he a leader he is a very good leader in his own right but we also need other kinds of leadership. One person can't do it all.

for sure, one guy can't be everything. I like our core group a lot, and would like to see it supported. But I also get the desire to rid the team of Benning's mistakes. 

 

its not going to be an easy offseason at all for JR.

[Gawdzukes]

18 minutes ago, JM_ said:

this is a bit much. Now Miller loses games for us? I know you don't like him but come on. 

You're misreading me. I like him a lot but I'm also a player with over 40 seasons of personal experience. It's how we talk as athletes. Just because I point out flaws in a person's game it doesn't mean I don't like them. I'm just not going to pretend he's perfect. Just like I think Bure is spectacular I'm not going to encourage Lammikko to start going coast to coast every chance he gets. Miller doesn't "lose" games for us but those types of plays can and do lose games in the NHL. That stinker play in OT handed Calgary the win. You can't be wanting to teach young players that can you? In all fairness he has improved this aspect greatly in the second half of the year. Maybe if you read my post above it'll clear it up.

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

You're misreading me. I like him a lot but I'm also a player with over 40 seasons of personal experience. It's how we talk as athletes. Just because I point out flaws in a person's game it doesn't mean I don't like them. I'm just not going to pretend he's perfect. Just like I think Bure is spectacular I'm not going to encourage Lammikko to start going coast to coast every chance he gets. Miller doesn't "lose" games for us but those types of plays can and do lose games in the NHL. That stinker play in OT handed Calgary the win. You can't be wanting to teach young players that can you? In all fairness he has improved this aspect greatly in the second half of the year. Maybe if you read my post above it'll clear it up.

its all good, I read too much into it 

[Gawdzukes]

37 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Geez, I think I might have to agree with you for once.  Not gonna make it a habit though

 

Anyways, I think part of it is also experience.  JT Miller and this team in general need more experience playing these types of meaningful games.  They NEED to make the playoffs to learn from mistakes.  The best thing that has happened down this stretch is learning what kind of work ethic and determination is required to succeed in this league.  Which is why I'm hoping most of this team comes back intact to make another run at the season.  They deserve that chance together.

Hey it's great to agree on something for once bud! I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy.  I think these guys all learned some great things this year. Even if we didn't make the playoffs we got some of the same experience. I think anyone could clearly see the team really grew and stuck together through hard times. It can only benefit us greatly us the future. I hope most of the players are back next year too.  Dickinson, Petan, and Chiasson can go for sure, although I could keep Chiasson as 13th forward. Filling those roles with tough players who can PK with some veteran leadership would pay some huge dividends.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Gawdzukes

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Hey it's great to agree on something for once bud! I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy.  I think these guys all learned some great things this year. Even if we didn't make the playoffs we got some of the same experience. I think anyone could clearly see the team really grew and stuck together through hard times. It can only benefit greatly us in the future. I hope most of the players are back next year too.  Dickinson, Petan, and Chiasson can go for sure, although I could keep Chiasson as 13th forward. Filling those roles with tough players who can PK with some veteran leadership would pay some big dividends.

I want to see what Walker can do with the PK with better players.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Hey it's great to agree on something for once bud! I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy.  I think these guys all learned some great things this year. Even if we didn't make the playoffs we got some of the same experience. I think anyone could clearly see the team really grew and stuck together through hard times. It can only benefit greatly us in the future. I hope most of the players are back next year too.  Dickinson, Petan, and Chiasson can go for sure, although I could keep Chiasson as 13th forward. Filling those roles with tough players who can PK with some veteran leadership would pay some big dividends.

[SilentSam]

Why on earth would the Wild trade Fiala ?

[mll]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Why on earth would the Wild trade Fiala ?

Was the initial plan going into the season - use him as bridge to their prospects and then move on given their cap situation.  They are in cap hell with 13M to 15M in dead cap for the coming 3 seasons. 

 

But, it's not the same to trade a 60pt winger thinking that they can replace him by committee/with a prospect, vs now a dynamic, over ppg game-breaker who is top-10 in EV points.  The chemistry with Boldy is also special. 

 

Guerin did a live podcast with fans in attendance last night.  A fan asked him what he was going to do, now that Fiala has called his bluff after he forced him to take a 1-year prove-me deal.  Guerin answered that he honestly doesn't know.  Says it will all work out, one way or another.  He doesn't know what their expectation will be, what theirs will be or the market's.  Says right now they are really enjoying him blossom and grow.  Their priority is to focus on the playoffs and they'll sort it out in the off-season.

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mll