[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[aGENT]

37 minutes ago, JM_ said:

couldn't help myself. 

 

We really don't have an age problem with this team per se, there's lots of room to bring in younger talent AND have the current best players still be on this team when they can start contending. If our window isn't for two years, there's no reason Miller at 31 won't be a solid part of that imo. 

 

We're certainly not in a position like SJS on their d e.g.

Hell be closer to 32 and like coconuts stated, we're likely only a (hopefully) couple round playoff team by then. Actually getting to conference and league finals consistently, will likely take a couple more years then that. Now Miller is 34, declining and eating up massive cap, as we should be making our biggest push... Bad math Jimmy, just like we've been saying for months.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, I think the 2-3 year time frame would be just the very tip of the contending window opening (assuming things go relatively well). Certainly not the depths of it. Hopefully that's the start of some deeper playoff runs that set the stage for eventual finals runs/cups in 4+ years.

Most teams have to battle it out in the playoffs for a while before even getting a sniff at a conference final, let alone a cup final. I think anyone who thinks we'll just waltz to a final right quick is either really optimistic or out of their mind.

 

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

if thats true, then why not go full teardown then? let those teams windows go by for the next few years.

If Al and JR see it my way they just might.

 

My view on our timeline is part of why I've been advocating on moving Miller, as I don't think he'll fit. If Bo doesn't want to ride that out we should look into trading him too, though I think he's young enough to be serviceable in 4-5 years as that'd have him at roughly 32.

 

I'm not interested in seeing top players walk for nothing, it's not a luxury we can afford.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

if thats true, then why not go full teardown then? let those teams windows go by for the next few years.

Contrary to popular belief, you need more than a few years to rebuild an entire team.

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Hint?   ..  playing mind games now or pretending to be ?

perhaps that’s your problem, or it’s the scape goat stances you take.

 

 

Even this quote above from above: ^ 

 

“ Now compare that to the conference final players leading the way on their teams”

 

now you’ve expanded the 30+ age group of players to a team, to “players leading the way on their teams”.

 

Do you see the oxy moronic part of it?

 

now your breaking it down individually,  on a TEAM where contributions ARE AS A TEAM, and every player on that TEAM was assigned with a different role or task to get them in that position.

 

    ^  That’s called Zig Zagging agent.

 

  Perhaps cast for “ the Riddler” in the next Batman….    What’s after that?  another hint?

 

Contributions on a conference finalist team come in all shapes , sizes , personalities, skill sets and ages,  that’s what is unique about this Sport..  all players and coaches will tell you that..  because it’s true.

 

Theres no analytical column for it,.  Perhaps  It might only be accounted for if you were to stick a “mood ring “ on every player,  but the bio rythym of a team is unpredictable and can not be accounted for properly, because all comparisons are unique, and their own.

 

Age is and can be a gauge, but genetics supersedes it.

 

 

Chemistry,.  a room all on the same page with the energy level they play at,

is a key to that success , as much as it might be to have one or two players standing out in the Goals / Assists / Points brackets.

Lady Luck can love or hate you,.  And there’s always an ambulance standing by if your not paying attention to minor details.

 

Petterson Demko and Hughes need to get to 28/ 29 / 30 +.  wisely ,  with the right mentorship,  and leadership with the right Team and Right Team mates that put them on the right winning curve and with the right experiences to bring the best out of them.

 

That dosent happen by introducing more inexperienced youth and trading away your experienced players who lead with that example to get them.

 

Trade Miller,    and you might have Horvat and Boeser here as “leaders” or “Captains” to march the Demkos Peterssons and Hughes forward..

that’s weak.

 

Miller and OEL  bring far more of the aptitude necessary.

Bring Demko Hughes EP Podz and a few others along with them, it’s already having a positive effect.

 

one of Boeser or Horvat may bring a helpful return to offset the ELC to UFA cap issues and keep a good progression.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice rant 

 

Sorry bruh, the entire discussion your shoved your proboscis in, was on peak aged (late 20's/early 30's) players leading their teams deep in to the playoffs.

 

My point being that our core is still years away from that time frame. And by the time they even dip their toes in to that time frame, Miller will be well in his mid 30's and a declining anchor. AKA not a guy in his late 20's/early 30's.

 

Zig Zag that all you like with another off tangent rant.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by aGENT

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Contrary to popular belief, you need more than a few years to rebuild an entire team.

Really? didn't the Rangers write that public letter in 2018?

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Most teams have to battle it out in the playoffs for a while before even getting a sniff at a conference final, let alone a cup final. I think anyone who thinks we'll just waltz to a final right quick is either really optimistic or out of their mind.

 

If Al and JR see it my way they just might.

 

My view on our timeline is part of why I've been advocating on moving Miller, as I don't think he'll fit. If Bo doesn't want to ride that out we should look into trading him too, though I think he's young enough to be serviceable in 4-5 years as that'd have him at roughly 32.

 

I'm not interested in seeing top players walk for nothing, it's not a luxury we can afford.

So where is the additional elite talent coming from over the next 2-4 years if its not a near-full teardown? if we don't have enough now, we certainly won't (or likely won't) picking 15-20 for the next 4 years. 

 

If this group isn't the one to rebuild around, I say blow it up other than Demko, Hughes and Petey. Lets give those guys top 4 pick talent to grow with, because I just don't think we are getting any more elite guys picking in the middle of the 1st. 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by JM_

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

Really? didn't the Rangers write that public letter in 2018?

Also contrary to popular belief, they didn't rebuild an entire roster. They did more of a retool (with massive horse shoes and the new York draw that allowed then to easily land Panarin and Fox). Good luck replicating that "plan".

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

So where is the additional elite talent coming from over the next 2-4 years if its not a near-full teardown? if we don't have enough now, we certainly won't (or likely won't) picking 15-20 for the next 4 years. 

 

If this group isn't the one to rebuild around, I say blow it up other than Demko, Hughes and Petey. Lets give those guys top 4 pick talent to grow with, because I just don't think we are getting any more elite guys picking in the middle of the 1st. 

 

Them and Podz are my only untouchables tbh

 

For the right price I'd move everyone else 

 

But yeah, it's a tall order that requires some impressive wheeling and dealing to turn us around sooner than later imo 

 

We're in a weird spot where we've got some good vets, some top end talent, and a questionable pipeline lacking high end talent 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Also contrary to popular belief, they didn't rebuild an entire roster. They did more of a retool (with massive horse shoes and the new York draw that allowed then to easily land Panarin and Fox). Good luck replicating that "plan".

but isn't that something like what you've been advocating for? if not, where is our additional elite talent going to come from, or is the Miller deal the largest piece of that in how you see it unfolding?

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

So where is the additional elite talent coming from over the next 2-4 years if its not a near-full teardown? if we don't have enough now, we certainly won't (or likely won't) picking 15-20 for the next 4 years. 

 

This thread should give you some hints 

 

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

If this group isn't the one to rebuild around, I say blow it up other than Demko, Hughes and Petey. Lets give those guys top 4 pick talent to grow with, because I just don't think we are getting any more elite guys picking in the middle of the 1st. 

 

Thing is, we don't need a whole lot more of "elite" guys. We've largely got ours (none of whom were top 4 picks FYI). A top flight RHD would be nice, but those guys can be had in the mid first (McAvoy, Chychrun etc). But we do need to actually take some shots at them at the draft, find them, and develop them. And even then, with the strength we have on the left we can likely "get away" with Marinos and Lyubushkins on the right in the interim.

 

Beyond that we probably need a top winger at some point, but that's the "easiest" piece to find.

 

What we really need is solid role players, and cheap ELC/bridge depth to rotate in around them. And loads of them. And that just takes time. That and better, more cohesive team construction. And simply time for those young guys to get stronger, experienced, learn how much of a guantlet 82 games + playoffs is etc.

[JM_]

Just now, Coconuts said:

Them and Podz are my only untouchables tbh

 

For the right price I'd move everyone else 

 

But yeah, it's a tall order that requires some impressive wheeling and dealing to turn us around sooner than later imo 

 

We're in a weird spot where we've got some good vets, some top end talent, and a questionable pipeline lacking high end talent 

it is a tough spot. I just don't see a Miller deal being the magic bullet for elite talent, e.g., if the trade rumours are true so far then it won't be. 

 

I just want to know, if the plan is get younger, where is the elite coming from? because if its not top 4 talent, then why not retool around the current group with better trades and UFAs?

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, JM_ said:

but isn't that something like what you've been advocating for? if not, where is our additional elite talent going to come from, or is the Miller deal the largest piece of that in how you see it unfolding?

Minus the horse shoes, less of a step back and no New York draw, sure. It's similar but different starting places. Don't expect a Panarin or Fox to land in our lap though. We've certainly got a harder road to travel there. But IMO, that's our only realistic route out of this.

Edited June 13, 2022 by aGENT

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Minus the horse shoes, less of a step back and no New York draw, sure. It's similar but different starting places. Don't expect a Panarin or Fox to land in our lap though. We've certainly got a harder road to travel there. But IMO, that's our only realistic route out of this.

we need to make our own luck. Either by landing some home run freebies like NCAA or KHL guys and some smart trades, or imo really taking a step back and adding more top 4 talent for a couple of years.  

 

I just don't see a milder middle path increasing the game breaking talent. 

 

Now I guess the other option is an aggressive offer sheet, go all in on a Dobson offer. I'd be fine with that too. 

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, JM_ said:

it is a tough spot. I just don't see a Miller deal being the magic bullet for elite talent, e.g., if the trade rumours are true so far then it won't be. 

 

I just want to know, if the plan is get younger, where is the elite coming from? because if its not top 4 talent, then why not retool around the current group with better trades and UFAs?

Likely the draft, unless you give up something really good (Horvat, Miller, Boeser) you won't get those players from other teams. Cost controlled high end talent is gold.

 

Miller's our most valuable trade chip, I don't see Horvat or Boeser returning as much. But if Bo or Miller don't re-sign or management decides one, the other, or both don't fit you likely seem em moved. Same goes for Brock.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Likely the draft, unless you give up something really good (Horvat, Miller, Boeser) you won't get those players from other teams. Cost controlled high end talent is gold.

it is for sure. But if we're drafting guys mid-1st round that need 2 years of college or AHL time before getting a crack at the line-up, and then 1-2 years before being impactful, and thats just this year. Next year is that much further away. I just don't see this lining up with Bo's window, e.g. and maybe not even Demko if he chooses to move on. 

 

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Miller's our most valuable trade chip, I don't see Horvat or Boeser returning as much. But if Bo or Miller don't re-sign or management decides one, the other, or both don't fit you likely seem em moved. Same goes for Brock.

he is but he's also our top offensive player at the moment. 

 

We're back to our same old argument over the last few months, I just see the path that you and @aGENT proposing as risky as well, not saying its the wrong one, just not the one I'd prefer or the one that can get us more elite talent, the only path that does that is a tear down of moving Bo, Miller and Boeser now for high picks over the next two drafts and more ELC/RFA talent. 

 

[aGENT]

34 minutes ago, JM_ said:

it is for sure. But if we're drafting guys mid-1st round that need 2 years of college or AHL time before getting a crack at the line-up, and then 1-2 years before being impactful, and thats just this year. Next year is that much further away. I just don't see this lining up with Bo's window, e.g. and maybe not even Demko if he chooses to move on. 

 

he is but he's also our top offensive player at the moment. 

 

We're back to our same old argument over the last few months, I just see the path that you and @aGENT proposing as risky as well, not saying its the wrong one, just not the one I'd prefer or the one that can get us more elite talent, the only path that does that is a tear down of moving Bo, Miller and Boeser now for high picks over the next two drafts and more ELC/RFA talent. 

 

I'll ask you... How does keeping Miller get us that high end talent?

 

If you agree we're not a contender (not just a playoff team) the next few years with, or without Miller... Keeping him just means picking more in the middle-late part of the draft and even more/worse wheel spin...

 

(And worse cap allocation the further we go).

Edited June 13, 2022 by aGENT

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'll ask you... How does keeping Miller get us that high end talent?

 

If you agree we're not a contender (not just a playoff team) the next few years with, or without Miller... Keeping him just means picking more in the middle-late part of the draft and even more/worse wheel spin...

Sakic moved ROR and Duchene.

We should move Miller and Bo.  Maybe not the same summer, but both need to go for us to gain assets to make us better in the future when Petey, Hughes are in the heart of their primes.  

Question is, will our owner allow that kind of obvious step back?  IMHAO he will not.  

So we will likely continue the same course of trying to retool and compete, which will keep us in the middle.  Never good enough to be a true Cup contender, and not having a bright future.  

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'll ask you... How does keeping Miller get us that high end talent?

 

If you agree we're not a contender (not just a playoff team) the next few years with, or without Miller... Keeping him just means picking more in the middle-late part of the draft and even more/worse wheel spin...

 

(And worse cap allocation the further we go).

it doesn't, he is the talent for a 4-5 year window with Demko, Hughes, Petey, Bo et al. 

 

I don't agree that we can't be a contender if JR can find the right pieces to fix our d and bigger bodies on the bottom 6.

[DrJockitch]

It is a lot of wild speculation which is always fun. 
‘End of day JR/PA are sitting down and talking to Bo, JTM and Brock to see what numbers and term will look like. He will likely keep the most favourable contracts and move on from whichever are least favourable. 
‘They have feelers out gauging the marketplace which is just due dilligence. Cant see returning with all three of JTM, Garland and Brock maybe not even two of them. 
I just don’t see Bo getting traded. 

[Me_]

3 minutes ago, JM_ said:

it doesn't, he is the talent for a 4-5 year window with Demko, Hughes, Petey, Bo et al. 

 

I don't agree that we can't be a contender if JR can find the right pieces to fix our d and bigger bodies on the bottom 6.

If Demko shuts the door in the playoffs, we’re in great shape. We know he can.

 

The rest is almost all in place. It’s time to make the playoffs year after year after year and move up from round to round.